breast cancer

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toggs

Original Poster:

179 posts

187 months

Wednesday 6th April 2011
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Message for all female Phers...If you find a lump get it CHECKED !!!!my wife and I did and it might just of saved her life.

Many of you will remember that I was down on my luck a few years back and I hit rock bottom but with the good support and help from the kind Phers I got through it.
Its been very eventfull since, Ive met and married a wonderfull lady and we are very very happy.
We have our ups and downs like all couples but we seem to get through it and come out smiling just when things are looking great and are on the up moving to a new home etc WHAM ... we get hit with the big C and our lifes get put on hold just seems so unfair the pair of us have had similar past experiences and neither of us get any luck why cant we have a break for once.
Basically we were led cuddled up together on the sofa watching a dvd when I find a lump in her left breast told her straight away as her mum had breast cancer.
The doctors refer her to ruh in Bath for mammogram and ultra sound test and biopsy of the lump a week's agognising wait for the result and we found out yesterday for sure that it was cancer.
Weve talked non stop about it and my wife has made the disscission to have a full masectomy which I fully support her with it, it just reduces the risk of it comming back again.
Yes im very worried about a lot of things one being will I still look at her and feel the same her about her after the operation I love her to bits but there is still that element of doubt since Ive found out about the lump ive found it very difficult to touch or cuddle her there is this a normal reaction ??
I know with it myself how much she means to me and im hoping that this is just the shock of it and I will get over it.I dont want to lose her by being cold,rejecting herand making her feel uneasy about her herself she is so understanding about it all and how im struggling but I feel so bad as it should be about her not me would be nice to hear from similar phers who have been through it with there partners,wifes and girlfriends.
The wife has been so brave about it all and im very very proud of her for all what she has been through and will have to go through and yes I do tell her.
She booked into the Ruh Bath for 15 April for her operation still unsure if she will have to radio and chemo afterwards as the biospy from the lymp nodes was not clear enough.
Thanks for reading this and I hope it sends out a message to anyone that finds a lump

Toggs

RemainAllHoof

76,386 posts

283 months

Wednesday 6th April 2011
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All the best with the op and recovery. smile

Antonia

305 posts

162 months

Wednesday 6th April 2011
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Big hugs to you both.
Your honesty about your feelings is incredible. I think your reaction is
understandable and your wife may well have similar worries about her
feelings towards her body. The breast is a part of the body that can have
a big influence on how you define yourself.
There is a lot of literature about learning to live with these feelings, have
you had any contact with supports groups etc? Talking to a BC nurse
specialist may help.
Good luck with the treatment and take time to be kind to yourself and
your wife.
Fingers crossed for you both.

Broomsticklady

1,095 posts

206 months

Wednesday 6th April 2011
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My sincere commiserations to both of you for joining this exclusive club of which I am a reluctant member.

Lots of things I could suggest, and happy to answer any questions from an experienced point of view either here or by PM. One resource I woulld recommend tho is the Breast Cancer Care forums for both of you - lots iof good stuff there.

Wacky Racer

38,175 posts

248 months

Wednesday 6th April 2011
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Nothing to add except good luck.....thumbup

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

212 months

Friday 8th April 2011
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Your feelings are perfectly normal. I think the lady with the broom has it stop on - go read the breast cancer forum as there is a lot that you need to pick up on very quickly. As much as you have your own fears and worries about the physical changes you will experience and have to accept, your greatest gift in a loving relationship is that you can do this together.

... and I hope you don't mind me suggesting just this one little thing. Please don't stress over how you think you will feel about the changes you and your good lady will experience. Until it happens and the events start to play out in your own lives you will not know. Take every day as it comes - it makes it far far easier to deal with, when you are not fighting your own worries and fears about what you might or might not feel, think, or how you will behave.

As odd as this may be to read, welcome to the wonderful world of cancer. It will frustate you, upset you, sadden you and it might well possibly change you .... how it changes you... well that's up to you. How you approach it now will go a long way to determining what happens next. It may enrich your lives in ways you cannot begin to understand. Who knows - it is a big adventure and the best you can do is to embrace all it has to offer.

( I will also add, one of the most beautiful, sexy and complete women I have ever had the great pleasure to meet has a double mastectomy ).

You will find a world of encouragement on this forum - keep posting if it helps. People will always listen and support in any way they can.

Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Friday 8th April 02:57

toggs

Original Poster:

179 posts

187 months

Saturday 9th April 2011
quotequote all
Thanks for all the kind comments
Got mixed emotions at the moment got a lot of anger inside of me feel so hopeless and helpless.
One way ive explained my anger to my wife is that if she was beaten up and left with brusing and cuts I could retaliate and get that other person back for doing it but with this I cant she's going to be left permently scared and disfigured for life and its so frustrating that I cant do anything about it.
My wife has been amazing with all this and Im very proud of her weve shed a lot of tears over the last few weeks.
We will get through this but we both know that we have a long road a head of us.

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

212 months

Saturday 9th April 2011
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toggs said:
Thanks for all the kind comments
Got mixed emotions at the moment got a lot of anger inside of me feel so hopeless and helpless.
One way ive explained my anger to my wife is that if she was beaten up and left with brusing and cuts I could retaliate and get that other person back for doing it but with this I cant she's going to be left permently scared and disfigured for life and its so frustrating that I cant do anything about it.
My wife has been amazing with all this and Im very proud of her weve shed a lot of tears over the last few weeks.
We will get through this but we both know that we have a long road a head of us.
... but the wonderful thing is that you have already made a start. You know, it is so easy for a man to take the 'macho' role and shut off from how he feels about all the things that you describe. It rarely works and in the end often men are left with some very difficult aspects to deal with.

It's really positive for both of you that you keep your connection and you keep talking and crying and grieving and all the other things that keep you sane and grounded in as many different ways as possible.... and add to that list laughter, intimacy, sex... cancer, especially breast cancer does not have to change these aspects.

When my Lily was at the beginning of her journey I felt the same - powerless, out of control and at times simply a passenger in a journey over which I had no option but to be tag along on. Yet, it soon changed. All that you are doing, though it may not feel it is giving you back control - of your life, of your emotions of your thoughts, of your feelings... you come across as someone who really cares for their wife and that is only a good thing.

All that you describe are feelings and thoughts that describe loss and in a sense a form of bereavement for the parts that are to be taken away (and I don't mean just the physical parts). It is grieving and it is very powerful and very important that you continue to do this - one day it will change and the anger and pent up emotions of not being in control, of not being able to do more will pass. They will be replaced with what you CAN DO. You're not her surgeon, you can't take the cancer away, but you can support her to the best of your abilities in the ways that she needs and in the ways that you want to do. That is all you can do and need to do.

Sometime, when the day is quieter and you have a few moments to reflect on all that is happeneing to you, give yourself permission to be the best you can be, to accept the limititations of your surgery and clinical skills - that's not your job, but in doing so, accept that you will do the best you can do. You don't have to make any promises or any vows, you just have to be you and stay connected to those parts of you that are hurting, are mourning, are scared, fearful, terrified, sad.. in fact all of it. Because in those things, in staying connected to you and who you are, you stay connected to your lady. Trust her to do what she needs to do. She needs the surgery, you need to be there for her so that she knows that you (in as much as you can be) are OK and you are there together.

It may be a long road time wise, but no matter what happens, it does not have to be a battle, a trauma and a trial to exhaust you both at every step. Yes it is physically, mentally and emotionally exhausting and I am sure there will be days that you just want to end right now, but if you can, think about it differently. This is something to be experienced, something to be learned from, something to draw strength from; love, bonding and for want of a word humanity. Your humanity will shine through all the difficulties. Give yourself the permission to be human, not to be superman and let it be what it is. Cancer does not have to be a fight, a battle a 'war' - these things are too exhausting. Let it be something else, something different. Something to enrich your life and something to make the bonds between you stronger than they have ever been. It's clear that your love your wife dearly. It will be enough to see you through to the other side... to a celebration and happy times ahead.

I hope you enjoy the sunshine. It's a beautiful day to be alive.

toggs

Original Poster:

179 posts

187 months

Saturday 9th April 2011
quotequote all
At the moment we are taking everyday as it comes but at the same time we are trying to carry on as normal.
Ive planned alot of outings this week leading up to the op just to take my wife's mind of it all and my mind off it aswell
Today we visited an old relative that I havent seen for ages which was great as it took our minds off it and allowed us forget what was going on for while even if my aunt is a bit eccentric and off the planet we had a good laugh on the way home about it.
What makes it hard for us is the fact we havent been married that long (less than a year) so this will really test our relationship to the max but we've both be honest with each other and have not kidded ourselfs that this is going to be a easy ride and we are expecting many dark days a head of us.
They have offered her a reconstruction afterwards she's not in the right frame of mind to consider this at the moment but one step at a time ive told her we need to do baby steps and take things slowly.
She has had a bad expierence before when she was sterilised it went really wrong and the carbon dioxide used in keyhole caused 2 heart attacks(blood vessel was peirced by mistake) which caused it to go to her heart so she has that added fear shes great about the operation and what they are going to do to her but its the being put to sleep that scares her the most.
Her sons have been great with her and are always there to talk to her and offer her support.
I will keep updating as and when things progress and to let people know she is ok

thanks
Nick

Broomsticklady

1,095 posts

206 months

Saturday 9th April 2011
quotequote all
toggs said:
permently scared and disfigured for life
Hi there - sorry I've not got back to your PM (or to you DMN) - Having gone 2 years since diagnosis I had a bit of a scare myself on Monday which has thrown me rather - calcification in the affected boob which could be fine or could not be, 10 days to find out.

The one thing that struck me tho and forced me out of my doldrums were the above words - please, I know you're trying to help, and she may well refer to herself as such, but be careful with terminology like this. I have a gouge out of my boob and virtually no feeling having had a lumpectomy (as the surgeon put it, he had plenty of material to work with and my tumour was only 2 and a bit cm) and I hate the way I look. But the one thing which keeps me going in that respect is David has never agreed with me and never shied away from how I look. OK, we've got a long history, no kids and married 33 years, but I think if I had one slighly negative comment from him on my looks I'd not say anything but take it away and fester and it's the kind of thing that in the dark moments to come us women bring out to torture ourselves further with.

I can relate a bit to your wife's anaetheseia fear - not as dramatic as a heart attack but I had to be intubated as I was sick under anaesthetic in 2000, and lost my voice as a result of the shock for 11 weeks. All I can say is explain to the anaethetist how you feel and trust them - things go wrong so very rarely and she's already had her 'turn' as it were.

When I'm a bit stronger I'll PM you more fully (and get back to you Mr P!)

toggs

Original Poster:

179 posts

187 months

Saturday 9th April 2011
quotequote all
Broomsticklady said:
toggs said:
permently scared and disfigured for life
Hi there - sorry I've not got back to your PM (or to you DMN) - Having gone 2 years since diagnosis I had a bit of a scare myself on Monday which has thrown me rather - calcification in the affected boob which could be fine or could not be, 10 days to find out.

The one thing that struck me tho and forced me out of my doldrums were the above words - please, I know you're trying to help, and she may well refer to herself as such, but be careful with terminology like this. I have a gouge out of my boob and virtually no feeling having had a lumpectomy (as the surgeon put it, he had plenty of material to work with and my tumour was only 2 and a bit cm) and I hate the way I look. But the one thing which keeps me going in that respect is David has never agreed with me and never shied away from how I look. OK, we've got a long history, no kids and married 33 years, but I think if I had one slighly negative comment from him on my looks I'd not say anything but take it away and fester and it's the kind of thing that in the dark moments to come us women bring out to torture ourselves further with.

I can relate a bit to your wife's anaetheseia fear - not as dramatic as a heart attack but I had to be intubated as I was sick under anaesthetic in 2000, and lost my voice as a result of the shock for 11 weeks. All I can say is explain to the anaethetist how you feel and trust them - things go wrong so very rarely and she's already had her 'turn' as it were.

When I'm a bit stronger I'll PM you more fully (and get back to you Mr P!)
Good luck and we hope you get good results back and our thoughts are with you

Just to quickly clarify it wasnt the aneathesia that caused the heart attacks it was the carbon dioxide they used to inflate the stomach that caused it but the fear is still there.
I would never say anything negative to my wife but she has asked me to honest with her when I see the scars and missing boob she is left with and what I think about them, She has said she would respect me more by me being really honest with her but when I referered to disfigured and scarred for life I was quoting her exact thoughts and words.
She had the option of a lumpectomy but has choosen to go for a masectomy as she would worry to much and make her self really ill again..
We spoke about both options and I told her she had to make the dission that was right for her and not for me or anybody else I fully support the choice she has made as I know its the right choice for her.

Let me know how you get on either on here on via pm

drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

212 months

Sunday 10th April 2011
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... I realise that there is a lot going on at the moment in your life, but it is important for your good lady to try and reconsider how she looks at this operation. Language such as feeling disfigured and scared for life say an awful lot about the mental state of your good lady and these are issues that you can help her with. It's teriffic that you are honest and can express your fears regarding changes to her body, but perhaps she needs gentle suggestion that this way of looking at it is perhaps not the best. Have a think about this in the days and weeks to come - does this really have to be about disfufurement and scars for life? Is there not a way of thinking about it differently, that what is happening to her is the process of getting better. The surgery, as severe as it is is the process... it is not the be-all and end-all i itself. It is important... most definately, but is there another way of looking at the surgery that is not so negatively charged?

I have worked with a few women with breast cancer who carry their mental scars as well as their physical scars. It is often the case that the mental scars that are far harder to bear and if your good lady could begin, even just a little to think slightly differently about this aspect, it will be a positive step.

It is important that when she comes out of surgery, she sees a positive step forwards, rather than a loss of her breast. This can be very hard and some people will say how can that even be possible, but it really makes a difference to resolving fears and anxieties surrounding organ loss. Breast cancer for so many women is so much more than the removal of an organ - for many it is about femininity, sexual identity, sex appeal, motherhood, desire... you name it, it's probably in the mix. Keep on talking but also if you can, find your way of asking your good lady how really feels about this and how can it be seen as a positive, not just a disfugurement and a scaring for life.

... Surgery that takes away, does not have to be about loss. It can be about life ... and giving her life. In fact, if you think about it, she has already made the conscious choice to have a mastectomy. Support that by making it a real positive. It's about making a positive choice to live, not a negative choice to live in constant worry.

... and look after yourself to. If I can help in any way, PM me.

Broomsticklady

1,095 posts

206 months

Sunday 10th April 2011
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This is difficult - you don't know me and I know only the little about you but some of the things you've said I find very concerning. You say she's chosen a mastectomy cos it means it's less likely to come back - I think she needs to talk to her breast care nurse and surgeon again. If they do a lumpectomy they take margins of flesh around the tumour, and if they aren't clear they do it again, but they usually get it right first time. Sometimes they do a mastectomy if the tumour is large in comparison to the breast and the margins would be difficult, but a large tumour is usually shrunk by pre surgery chemo which implies it's not huge. By having a mastectomy rather than lumpectomy you're not reducing the chances of it coming back - you might think you are but you're not. If it's going to return it will do it at a time that suits it - that may be months it may be years - a lot depends on the pathology of the tumour which they don't know fully until it's out, whether it's hormone receptive, grade, stage, the type of chemo if any - it's complicated and just because the organ it's grown in is removed it doesn't mean it's not going to return anymore than if it's removed just as a lump.

More recurrences come from lymph node infection - my prognosis isn't good having had 15 out of 20 infected which means it had spread a good long way in the 15 moths between my mammograms. Lots of people have no or little lymoph node infection and their chances are far better - you could be looking at 90%+ 5 year survival rate.If you do get a local recurrence in the breasts it's actually comparitively good news - they can treat that the same as a primary. It's when it goes secondary elsewhere in the body that it becomes treatable but not curable.

If you do continue along the mastectomy route without immediate reconstruction, ask what the chances of getting reconstruction later are - some authorities don't view reconstruction after the event as being of any priority and you may find a long wait, if indeed they do it.

I'm a severe clinical depressive too - have been for years and I know cancer and depression aren't good bed mates - I actually told someone recently if I had to have one of the other I'd opt for breast cancer - at least I stand a chance with that - my depression taunts me all the time to lesser or major degree. So I probably understand some of how she's feeling and have felt it myself but you have to try to be more rational than you are usually in these circumstances.

And as for telling her the truth - Women! - we say one thing and mean another sometimes! It does really sound to me as if you need to do a lot of research ASAP that you're going the right routes - make yourself an appt to see the BCN and discuss with her if you don't want to get your wife frightened - it just sounds to me as if you're not as well informed as you should be right now and are going down a route which you may later wonder about.

I'll stop here - I may have said too much - it is best intentioned but may not come across as such - it's just so much of what you say is so worryingly not quite right.
Nina

PS there's a guy active on the breast cancer care forums whose wife sounds to be your kind of age and who's a few months further down the line - she's on chemo now - richard72 - register and PM him - he may throw some more light your way from a male prespective - he comes across very similar to you in his feelings about his lady.

PPS Just logged on to BCC site and most recently updated topic is on subject of WLE v mastectomy - there are many more similar discussions and lots of opinions - now I will go away!
http://www.breastcancercare.org.uk/forum/viewtopic...



Edited by Broomsticklady on Sunday 10th April 14:05

toggs

Original Poster:

179 posts

187 months

Sunday 10th April 2011
quotequote all
Sorry if I offended you with some of the comments nina wasnt my intentions just trying to be very open and honest.
Ill try to explain more what is going on with her tumor.
On her mamogram and ultrasound the lymph nodes gave them cause for concerns I understand what your saying in regards to the lumpectomy and the removal of the tissues around the tumour and if it was my choice I would of opted for that but even before it was confirmed as a cancer she had made her mind up on the treatment she wanted to have I have talked to her about and we have talked with the macmillian nurse aswell all I can do is support her.
An hour before she goes for her operation she has to have a radioactive isotope inserted into the breast then when she is under they will inject a blue dye this will highlight any hot spots in her lymph nodes which they will then do biopsy on as the biopsy they have done were not clear enough its then a wait of 2 weeks to find out if she has to go back in for the removal of these lymph nodes if they are showing as cancer cells then they will give her radio and chemo
So were still in the dark as to what will happen at the moment she is coping really well we have our dark moments but were pulling and together
I love her with all my heart and I tell her everyday

Broomsticklady

1,095 posts

206 months

Sunday 10th April 2011
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You've not offended me - just worried me. Carry on loving her and you'll be fine.

N

Antonia

305 posts

162 months

Sunday 17th April 2011
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Hope all went to plan on the 15th

Slyjoe

1,504 posts

212 months

Sunday 17th April 2011
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My wifey and I have just finished this same journey (both of us below 40) drop me a pm and we can chat. Too pished to reply tonight, but, from my point of view "how are you" is the hardest question to answer.............
More than happy to set the world to rights over a pile of beer if you are anywhere near Brackley.
x
x



toggs

Original Poster:

179 posts

187 months

Tuesday 19th April 2011
quotequote all
Quick Update 19/4

Wife has had her operation which went very well considering the lack of communcation with the theatre reception on the day.
Due to my wife's fear it was arranged with the surgen and anthestist that I would go with my wife right down to the theatre doors under a sedative then wait for her to go under full sedation before leaving her (due to complications in a previous operation wife very nervous about surgery) however due to a hold up in the neuro science dept we were running late and had to rush to theatre we arrive at the doors to main reception of the unit and I wasn't allowed any further.
Wife went into a panic attack as I wasnt allowed in as discussed as she was not sedated 2 mins later the surgen,anthestist and nurse came bolting out after me to calm her down, 15 minutes later I managed to calm her down and she went down under sedation
All the surgery went well the original plan was to just check the lymph nodes and if the needed removal then she would need further surgery at a later date if they were found to contain cancer but they changed their minds and decided to check for cancer straight away and they would remove all the lymph nodes if any signs cancer shows.
Well they found cancer in the lymph nodes and she had to have them all removed.
Shes now home and resting and we have to attend the breast unit on the 26th to dicuss her chemo treatment

ill keep updating you as we know more

Speedracer329

1,507 posts

178 months

Wednesday 20th April 2011
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I hate this disease.

Just wanted to say please don't make the same mistake I did. My wife & I split up years ago because of my cancer. Totally my fault, I turned very insular & didn't want to share with her, & she didn't see the danger signs until it was too late. Please be very open with each other, keep telling her how much you love her.

I wish you both all the best.