The Official Chelsea Thread [Vol 3]

The Official Chelsea Thread [Vol 3]

Author
Discussion

fourstardan

1,983 posts

121 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
What are the thoughts on our new owners?

It's better than us going through hell in the press this month.

My only reservation is its multiple owners in the consortium which will pain decision making on purchases/sales of players.

Tuchel will stay as well I think until it's his choice to leave (if he wants to).



Adam.

23,420 posts

231 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
GT03ROB said:
Adam. said:
Has it been confirmed where the £3bn goes?

Think RA is still trying to claim his 1.5bn loan via various sham offshore companies
He has made a statement to expressly deny that.
Fair enough, so where do the proceeds go?

Dblue

3,107 posts

177 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
unident said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Lots of people got very rich in post communist Russia. Very few of them gave anything back.
A very small number got to become billionaires out of the total population. Improving the wealth of a nation does not mean allowing a small group to plunder the assets. He’s a criminal, not a loveable rogue, as much as you think he’s some sort of modern day Robin Hood, he’s not.
How is he a criminal , serious question. Are you seriously suggesting schmoozing and manoeuvering to win advantageous terms in auctions in that environment was anything out of the ordinary.
He doesn't appear to have broken any laws of the country - You may not think its fair or right and you may have a point but its a fact it happens all over the world -
Now, having got his 2.5 billion of asset (for about 600 million ) he's made some perfectly legal and very astute decisions to make it a lot more.

I'm sure he's no angel but I can't see he has much if anything to do with what's happening in the Ukraine and he's been a pretty good custodian of Chelsea Football Club

unident

6,359 posts

28 months

Monday 9th May
quotequote all
Dblue said:
How is he a criminal , serious question. Are you seriously suggesting schmoozing and manoeuvering to win advantageous terms in auctions in that environment was anything out of the ordinary.
He doesn't appear to have broken any laws of the country - You may not think its fair or right and you may have a point but its a fact it happens all over the world -
Now, having got his 2.5 billion of asset (for about 600 million ) he's made some perfectly legal and very astute decisions to make it a lot more.

I'm sure he's no angel but I can't see he has much if anything to do with what's happening in the Ukraine and he's been a pretty good custodian of Chelsea Football Club
None so blind ………………

TwigtheWonderkid

38,345 posts

127 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Dblue said:
He doesn't appear to have broken any laws of the country
I'm not sure he's broken any laws of this country either. unlike our PM.

unident

6,359 posts

28 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I'm not sure he's broken any laws of this country either. unlike our PM.
He’s not welcome here any more and wasn’t before the sanctions were applied to him either. A few other countries appear to have made him persona non grata too. That should tell you something. Sadly it won’t and you’ll carry on with your delusions.

bodhi

7,568 posts

206 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Dblue said:
How is he a criminal , serious question. Are you seriously suggesting schmoozing and manoeuvering to win advantageous terms in auctions in that environment was anything out of the ordinary.
He doesn't appear to have broken any laws of the country - You may not think its fair or right and you may have a point but its a fact it happens all over the world -
Now, having got his 2.5 billion of asset (for about 600 million ) he's made some perfectly legal and very astute decisions to make it a lot more.

I'm sure he's no angel but I can't see he has much if anything to do with what's happening in the Ukraine and he's been a pretty good custodian of Chelsea Football Club
If you look at where Chelsea are now compared to where they were when he took over I don't think you can call him anything else but an excellent custodian of the club. I'm not just talking in terms of the first team success which seems to have wound some of our rivals up a treat - but the work done in the academy which is now bearing fruit, the ladies team and the junior teams. In fact I'd say the only part of the club he didn't really manage to develop was the stadium, which wasn't for want of trying.

However on the criminal thing that our new friends keep droning on about, I'm sad to say that they are correct, as he made his first money by breaking the law - he started off selling luxury goods in the USSR, which was fairly illegal at the time. From what I've read him making lots of cash was more of a result of nepotism rather than anything overtly criminal, more knowing the right people and being in the right place at the right time.

Anyway looking to the future, lots of good noises coming out of Boehly and his consortium. Tuchel doesn't look to be going anywhere and will be backed, Bruce Buck looks to be sticking around and they are trying to encourage Cech and Marina to stay around too. Future certainly seems a lot brighter than it did a month ago anyway.

Gadgetmac

12,510 posts

85 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Adam. said:
Has it been confirmed where the £3bn goes?

Think RA is still trying to claim his 1.5bn loan via various sham offshore companies
I believe all of the proceeds will initially be going to a frozen bank account and then maybe a charity/charities eventually - the Govt will ultimately decide though.

TwigtheWonderkid

38,345 posts

127 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
unident said:
He’s not welcome here any more and wasn’t before the sanctions were applied to him either.
Yes, people are saying that. I would have more time for them if they stuck their heads above the parapet when he opened up the hotel to NHS staff during the pandemic, or agreed to fund the Refuge charity thru the increase in domestic violence during the lockdown. Why wasn't anyone saying "No....do not take this crooks blood money."

But, nobody did.

unident

6,359 posts

28 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yes, people are saying that. I would have more time for them if they stuck their heads above the parapet when he opened up the hotel to NHS staff during the pandemic, or agreed to fund the Refuge charity thru the increase in domestic violence during the lockdown. Why wasn't anyone saying "No....do not take this crooks blood money."

But, nobody did.
You keep peddling this argument and the Johnson one. Plenty called out Abramovich a long time ago. You keep pretending that didn’t happen though.

Dblue

3,107 posts

177 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
unident said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I'm not sure he's broken any laws of this country either. unlike our PM.
He’s not welcome here any more and wasn’t before the sanctions were applied to him either. A few other countries appear to have made him persona non grata too. That should tell you something. Sadly it won’t and you’ll carry on with your delusions.
A few other countries? Like the USA for example or Israel, the UAE , Turkey ? Not them, .....maybe you mean the sanctimonious EU whilst continuing to pump colossal monies into Putins war machine through buying Gas from him directly, god forbid it should actually cause some issues with their voters , that would be terrible. Meanwhile lets virtue signal with some low hanging fruit.

If I thought he was remotely culpable for the attack on Ukraine I'd absolutely join in your condemnation but I can't see its much to do with him , its pretty catastrophic for him personally it seems, he is a half Ukrainian jew after all

And he wasn't welcome before sanctions because he was bewilderingly denied a working visa in the wake of the Salisbury poisonings - again, what did/does Abramovich have to do with that.



unident

6,359 posts

28 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Dblue said:
A few other countries? Like the USA for example or Israel, the UAE , Turkey ? Not them, .....maybe you mean the sanctimonious EU whilst continuing to pump colossal monies into Putins war machine through buying Gas from him directly, god forbid it should actually cause some issues with their voters , that would be terrible. Meanwhile lets virtue signal with some low hanging fruit.

If I thought he was remotely culpable for the attack on Ukraine I'd absolutely join in your condemnation but I can't see its much to do with him , its pretty catastrophic for him personally it seems, he is a half Ukrainian jew after all

And he wasn't welcome before sanctions because he was bewilderingly denied a working visa in the wake of the Salisbury poisonings - again, what did/does Abramovich have to do with that.
Do you really think that the UK security forces are so completely inept that they’ve mistakenly punished Abramovich for a crime he didn’t commit? Is he really Hannibal Smith?

Israel - applied strict sanctions on oligarchs in general. So yes Israel
Switzerland - denied him citizenship, not EU
Portugal - serious irregularities with the application. Not EU driven

As for the suggestion that he’s free to come and go into the US, I highly doubt that. He’s certainly not trying to get into the US as far as I can see. Turkey are a bit of a law u to the,selves, they’re cosying up to Putin quite nicely, so unlikely to penalise Abramovich.

What he has to do with all of this is that he is closely linked to Putin. He denies it, but then jails the world over are are full of prisoners protesting their innocence aren’t they.

Dblue

3,107 posts

177 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
unident said:
Dblue said:
A few other countries? Like the USA for example or Israel, the UAE , Turkey ? Not them, .....maybe you mean the sanctimonious EU whilst continuing to pump colossal monies into Putins war machine through buying Gas from him directly, god forbid it should actually cause some issues with their voters , that would be terrible. Meanwhile lets virtue signal with some low hanging fruit.

If I thought he was remotely culpable for the attack on Ukraine I'd absolutely join in your condemnation but I can't see its much to do with him , its pretty catastrophic for him personally it seems, he is a half Ukrainian jew after all

And he wasn't welcome before sanctions because he was bewilderingly denied a working visa in the wake of the Salisbury poisonings - again, what did/does Abramovich have to do with that.
Do you really think that the UK security forces are so completely inept that they’ve mistakenly punished Abramovich for a crime he didn’t commit? Is he really Hannibal Smith?

Israel - applied strict sanctions on oligarchs in general. So yes Israel
Switzerland - denied him citizenship, not EU
Portugal - serious irregularities with the application. Not EU driven

As for the suggestion that he’s free to come and go into the US, I highly doubt that. He’s certainly not trying to get into the US as far as I can see. Turkey are a bit of a law u to the,selves, they’re cosying up to Putin quite nicely, so unlikely to penalise Abramovich.

What he has to do with all of this is that he is closely linked to Putin. He denies it, but then jails the world over are are full of prisoners protesting their innocence aren’t they.
You think he was involved in the Salisbury poisonings? Really, he's just an easy target - and what a completely pointless act it's been.
And the security forces have very little to do with the "political" act of sanctioning - that's our populist muppets diverting attention from their own failures.

FWIW I think the Turkish regime is despicable, the UAE should also be sanctioned for their implicit support of Russia and Israel is the cause of quite a bit of unnecessary misery in the world. But his level of influence on Putin's actions is not in proportion to the measures imposed.

It's just easy to do unlike , I don't know, phasing out Russian energy in less than a calendar year for example.

unident

6,359 posts

28 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Dblue said:
unident said:
Dblue said:
A few other countries? Like the USA for example or Israel, the UAE , Turkey ? Not them, .....maybe you mean the sanctimonious EU whilst continuing to pump colossal monies into Putins war machine through buying Gas from him directly, god forbid it should actually cause some issues with their voters , that would be terrible. Meanwhile lets virtue signal with some low hanging fruit.

If I thought he was remotely culpable for the attack on Ukraine I'd absolutely join in your condemnation but I can't see its much to do with him , its pretty catastrophic for him personally it seems, he is a half Ukrainian jew after all

And he wasn't welcome before sanctions because he was bewilderingly denied a working visa in the wake of the Salisbury poisonings - again, what did/does Abramovich have to do with that.
Do you really think that the UK security forces are so completely inept that they’ve mistakenly punished Abramovich for a crime he didn’t commit? Is he really Hannibal Smith?

Israel - applied strict sanctions on oligarchs in general. So yes Israel
Switzerland - denied him citizenship, not EU
Portugal - serious irregularities with the application. Not EU driven

As for the suggestion that he’s free to come and go into the US, I highly doubt that. He’s certainly not trying to get into the US as far as I can see. Turkey are a bit of a law u to the,selves, they’re cosying up to Putin quite nicely, so unlikely to penalise Abramovich.

What he has to do with all of this is that he is closely linked to Putin. He denies it, but then jails the world over are are full of prisoners protesting their innocence aren’t they.
You think he was involved in the Salisbury poisonings? Really, he's just an easy target - and what a completely pointless act it's been.
And the security forces have very little to do with the "political" act of sanctioning - that's our populist muppets diverting attention from their own failures.

FWIW I think the Turkish regime is despicable, the UAE should also be sanctioned for their implicit support of Russia and Israel is the cause of quite a bit of unnecessary misery in the world. But his level of influence on Putin's actions is not in proportion to the measures imposed.

It's just easy to do unlike , I don't know, phasing out Russian energy in less than a calendar year for example.
You see that bit where I said “closely linked to Putin”, that means he’s closely linked to Putin. It doesn’t mean that I think he was personally involved in the Salisbury poisonings. If I wanted to say that then I’d say “he was involved in the Salisbury poisonings”, but I didn’t. That might help you with your comprehension skills.

You and I agree on Turkey, the UAE and Israel. We disagree on Abramovich. Whether our incompetent government has sanctioned him as a populist measure I’m not so sure. They aren’t on their own and the world has pretty much applied sanctions to Russia and those closely linked to Putin.

NRS

19,723 posts

178 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
unident said:
He’s not welcome here any more and wasn’t before the sanctions were applied to him either.
Yes, people are saying that. I would have more time for them if they stuck their heads above the parapet when he opened up the hotel to NHS staff during the pandemic, or agreed to fund the Refuge charity thru the increase in domestic violence during the lockdown. Why wasn't anyone saying "No....do not take this crooks blood money."

But, nobody did.
Do you honestly believe this is the first time anyone has questioned RAs dodginess?

Do you honestly believe his billions is less corrupt than Boris' few millions?

Seriously?

Dblue

3,107 posts

177 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
NRS said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
unident said:
He’s not welcome here any more and wasn’t before the sanctions were applied to him either.
Yes, people are saying that. I would have more time for them if they stuck their heads above the parapet when he opened up the hotel to NHS staff during the pandemic, or agreed to fund the Refuge charity thru the increase in domestic violence during the lockdown. Why wasn't anyone saying "No....do not take this crooks blood money."

But, nobody did.
Do you honestly believe this is the first time anyone has questioned RAs dodginess?

Do you honestly believe his billions is less corrupt than Boris' few millions?

Seriously?
I don't honestly believe its the first time people have questioned the source of the cash , but that doesn't mean he did anything that suggested it's "blood money" or "stolen" from the poor Russian people., he didn't break any laws at the time as far as I can see , paying off people for advantageous deals is pretty much how things are done all over the world and especially in post communist Russia.
It's also how the current govt. sourced pandemic supplies just 18 months ago. You'd be naive in the extreme to believe otherwise.

Now you can suggest that's wrong and I would agree , it is, but its always been a part of life.

What you can say is that he has been responsible for a great deal of philanthropy, and some worthwhile initiatives on things like anti-semitism for example.

NRS

19,723 posts

178 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Dblue said:
I don't honestly believe its the first time people have questioned the source of the cash , but that doesn't mean he did anything that suggested it's "blood money" or "stolen" from the poor Russian people., he didn't break any laws at the time as far as I can see , paying off people for advantageous deals is pretty much how things are done all over the world and especially in post communist Russia.
It's also how the current govt. sourced pandemic supplies just 18 months ago. You'd be naive in the extreme to believe otherwise.

Now you can suggest that's wrong and I would agree , it is, but its always been a part of life.

What you can say is that he has been responsible for a great deal of philanthropy, and some worthwhile initiatives on things like anti-semitism for example.
Does that mean you agree with Saudi's killing of criminals then? It's perfectly fine within their law. Twig is against it related to the Newcastle owner, but also used the argument that what RA did is fine as it was within the law of the country it was done whereas Boris broke the law so is worse.

It's also amazing that he managed to make these billions without any dodginess, when he himself says people were dying every few days in the fight for the resources. I guess he just got lucky all the bad ones killed each other and forgot about him.

I'd hazard a lot of the philanthropy could be guided by getting locals on his side/making sure he has places to flee to if needed/tax breaks (offset money against the gifts, making stuff like his sportswashing cheaper than it looks like).

Edited by NRS on Tuesday 10th May 22:31

Dblue

3,107 posts

177 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
NRS said:
Dblue said:
I don't honestly believe its the first time people have questioned the source of the cash , but that doesn't mean he did anything that suggested it's "blood money" or "stolen" from the poor Russian people., he didn't break any laws at the time as far as I can see , paying off people for advantageous deals is pretty much how things are done all over the world and especially in post communist Russia.
It's also how the current govt. sourced pandemic supplies just 18 months ago. You'd be naive in the extreme to believe otherwise.

Now you can suggest that's wrong and I would agree , it is, but its always been a part of life.

What you can say is that he has been responsible for a great deal of philanthropy, and some worthwhile initiatives on things like anti-semitism for example.
Does that mean you agree with Saudi's killing of criminals then? It's perfectly fine within their law. Twig is against it related to the Newcastle owner, but also used the argument that what RA did is fine as it was within the law of the country it was done whereas Boris broke the law so is worse.

It's also amazing that he managed to make these billions without any dodginess, when he himself says people were dying every few days in the fight for the resources. I guess he just got lucky all the bad ones killed each other and forgot about him.

I'd hazard a lot of the philanthropy could be guided by getting locals on his side/making sure he has places to flee to if needed/tax breaks (offset money against the gifts, making stuff like his sportswashing cheaper than it looks like).

Edited by NRS on Tuesday 10th May 22:31
Well I don't agree in any way whatsoever in the death penalty and I think the Saudi regime is regressive and unpleasant in many ways. But the laws as they exist in that country are the laws.
RA did not as far as any of us know kill anyone - even his worst critics can only throw the charge of corrupting officials of the then government in his country to give him a free run at a chunk of the nationalised Gas and Oil industry. If that's dodgy then fine , but you'd have to look hard to find any rich guys who havent greased a few palms I would imagine.
I'm not sure what you are referring to about Abramovich saying people were dying in the fight for resources??? When, in 1997? recently? and quotes from him are like hens teeth.
Regimes "sportwashing" their reputations is very different to a rich individual - He doesn't need to worry about what people think about him, it's never been about PR. He wanted the glory and the pleasure. Has run Chelsea like a fan would (and that's not always been a good thing)
I don't know enough about where he pays tax to know if the various schemes he's involved in benefit him financially - probably, but most seem to be motivated by his background (Jewish issues feature highly)
And his response to the pandemic was impeccable -

He's on the wrong side of the Ukraine madness though for sure and I do think its appropriate to sanction him, and for him to have to sell the club - but I suspect in the long run he'll actually regain control of his assets - Though the £3billion that is paid for CFC is going to charity regardless and that's a good thing

NRS

19,723 posts

178 months

Tuesday 10th May
quotequote all
Dblue said:
Well I don't agree in any way whatsoever in the death penalty and I think the Saudi regime is regressive and unpleasant in many ways. But the laws as they exist in that country are the laws.
RA did not as far as any of us know kill anyone - even his worst critics can only throw the charge of corrupting officials of the then government in his country to give him a free run at a chunk of the nationalised Gas and Oil industry. If that's dodgy then fine , but you'd have to look hard to find any rich guys who havent greased a few palms I would imagine.
I'm not sure what you are referring to about Abramovich saying people were dying in the fight for resources??? When, in 1997? recently? and quotes from him are like hens teeth.
Regimes "sportwashing" their reputations is very different to a rich individual - He doesn't need to worry about what people think about him, it's never been about PR. He wanted the glory and the pleasure. Has run Chelsea like a fan would (and that's not always been a good thing)
I don't know enough about where he pays tax to know if the various schemes he's involved in benefit him financially - probably, but most seem to be motivated by his background (Jewish issues feature highly)
And his response to the pandemic was impeccable -

He's on the wrong side of the Ukraine madness though for sure and I do think its appropriate to sanction him, and for him to have to sell the club - but I suspect in the long run he'll actually regain control of his assets - Though the £3billion that is paid for CFC is going to charity regardless and that's a good thing
Cool, I agree it is nasty, but at least it's more consistent in an argument.

The quote was 2011 and in court - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60708450

A rich individual has just as much if not more need than a country. Look at almost all rich people and what they do with their wealth, particularly if it was acquired in a dodgy way or in a country with an unstable government. They put in into different countries, particularly those who might not be allies of the place they earned it. It's for the simple reason of if they need to flee, they want somewhere they can still be rich that won't immediately send them back. Giving bribes is one way to do this, investing in the country to make enough jobs that it's unpopular to kick you out is another, and getting the support of millions of sports fans is another, by helping them to success. Same with giving to charities - you'll not notice it with the remaining billions you have, but it means you're far less likely to be thrown out and all your wealth stripped from you.

The tax stuff is just what all rich people do - and many others. Give to a charity you like, help some others out, get a nice good feeling, and get some of it back again from taxes. If rich enough make sure people know about how much you originally gave so you look good, and don't mention how much you got back.

I suspect he is one of the nicer Russians (his daughter also did a post against Putin early on) but a lot will have been done for selfish reasons too. And saying he's the nicer one of a corrupt bunch of mobsters isn't a great advert. Not that you'd care, but I'd have more respect if someone said "he's dodgy but I don't care as he brought us trophies". It's also very strange to complain frequently about small scale corruption in the UK but be fine with RA, like some do here.

Dblue

3,107 posts

177 months

Wednesday 11th May
quotequote all
NRS said:
Dblue said:
Well I don't agree in any way whatsoever in the death penalty and I think the Saudi regime is regressive and unpleasant in many ways. But the laws as they exist in that country are the laws.
RA did not as far as any of us know kill anyone - even his worst critics can only throw the charge of corrupting officials of the then government in his country to give him a free run at a chunk of the nationalised Gas and Oil industry. If that's dodgy then fine , but you'd have to look hard to find any rich guys who havent greased a few palms I would imagine.
I'm not sure what you are referring to about Abramovich saying people were dying in the fight for resources??? When, in 1997? recently? and quotes from him are like hens teeth.
Regimes "sportwashing" their reputations is very different to a rich individual - He doesn't need to worry about what people think about him, it's never been about PR. He wanted the glory and the pleasure. Has run Chelsea like a fan would (and that's not always been a good thing)
I don't know enough about where he pays tax to know if the various schemes he's involved in benefit him financially - probably, but most seem to be motivated by his background (Jewish issues feature highly)
And his response to the pandemic was impeccable -

He's on the wrong side of the Ukraine madness though for sure and I do think its appropriate to sanction him, and for him to have to sell the club - but I suspect in the long run he'll actually regain control of his assets - Though the £3billion that is paid for CFC is going to charity regardless and that's a good thing
Cool, I agree it is nasty, but at least it's more consistent in an argument.

The quote was 2011 and in court - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60708450

A rich individual has just as much if not more need than a country. Look at almost all rich people and what they do with their wealth, particularly if it was acquired in a dodgy way or in a country with an unstable government. They put in into different countries, particularly those who might not be allies of the place they earned it. It's for the simple reason of if they need to flee, they want somewhere they can still be rich that won't immediately send them back. Giving bribes is one way to do this, investing in the country to make enough jobs that it's unpopular to kick you out is another, and getting the support of millions of sports fans is another, by helping them to success. Same with giving to charities - you'll not notice it with the remaining billions you have, but it means you're far less likely to be thrown out and all your wealth stripped from you.

The tax stuff is just what all rich people do - and many others. Give to a charity you like, help some others out, get a nice good feeling, and get some of it back again from taxes. If rich enough make sure people know about how much you originally gave so you look good, and don't mention how much you got back.

I suspect he is one of the nicer Russians (his daughter also did a post against Putin early on) but a lot will have been done for selfish reasons too. And saying he's the nicer one of a corrupt bunch of mobsters isn't a great advert. Not that you'd care, but I'd have more respect if someone said "he's dodgy but I don't care as he brought us trophies". It's also very strange to complain frequently about small scale corruption in the UK but be fine with RA, like some do here.
Well said, agree with all of that. Anyway probably enough on this now. He's been a fantastic owner of Chelsea FC for us fans, we're very fortunate to have been the beneficiaries of his largesse.
New era now though - Lets see how that works