Will VAR Change Football for the Better?
Discussion
Bluevanman said:
Tycho said:
I guess the only way to do it would have chips in the shirts and all in a specific place. Then you'd have to change the rule to be only if the chip was offside. It's not ideal but could be a lot quicker and definitive rather than depending on where the official decides to put the lines. I guess the other alternative would be like in the World Cup and have a lot of cameras down the sideline and use an automated system which seemed to work well in the WC but for some reason the FA or PL didn't want it.
I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
It's not going to work.The crucial factor people are missing is the contact with the ball for the pass to the offside player.You can be offside from a headed pass,do you want to implant a chip in the players heads lol .I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
Forget technology, it's not going to fix the offside call .It all comes back to clear and obvious, that's VAR's modus operandi and they gone away from that .
The Coventry winning goal was not clear and obviously offside therefore they were robbed
Offside isn't a clear and obvious error, it is one of the events that is binary. You are offside or not, there is no subjectivity which is why they draw the lines. IMO they should get 10 seconds to look at it and if they can't prove the player is offside then they get the benefit of the doubt.
IMO the Forest penalty shouts were clear and obvious but we all know that the VAR officials hide behind this excuse as it is subjective so they don't make their mates look bad.
That decision was a shambles, I was watching on tv and jumped up to celebrate the Coventry goal, christ knows what it would have been like if I actually supported them.
The thing for me is, the players have to decide on their positioning based on what they can see with their eyes, they can't slow things down and bring out a f
king micrometer on a computer screen to help them so why should the referees have that luxury.
Nobody watching at home could see it was offside, the referee couldn't, the linesman who was perfectly in line couldn't, but somebody in a studio could. That isn't what sport is about.
A better version of VAR would be, the referee gets alerted that they've made a clear error and then they review it themselves on a pitch-side monitor, once, at full speed and given an opportunity to change their decision.
The thing for me is, the players have to decide on their positioning based on what they can see with their eyes, they can't slow things down and bring out a f
king micrometer on a computer screen to help them so why should the referees have that luxury.Nobody watching at home could see it was offside, the referee couldn't, the linesman who was perfectly in line couldn't, but somebody in a studio could. That isn't what sport is about.
A better version of VAR would be, the referee gets alerted that they've made a clear error and then they review it themselves on a pitch-side monitor, once, at full speed and given an opportunity to change their decision.
Bluevanman said:
It's not going to work.The crucial factor people are missing is the contact with the ball for the pass to the offside player.You can be offside from a headed pass,do you want to implant a chip in the players heads lol .
Forget technology, it's not going to fix the offside call .It all comes back to clear and obvious, that's VAR's modus operandi and they gone away from that .
The Coventry winning goal was not clear and obviously offside therefore they were robbed
The chip in the ball determines when last contact was made. The players chip will be in a designated area like the small of the back and it will be the chip that determines if a player is offside or not.Forget technology, it's not going to fix the offside call .It all comes back to clear and obvious, that's VAR's modus operandi and they gone away from that .
The Coventry winning goal was not clear and obviously offside therefore they were robbed
I guess there is an edge case where 2 players from opposing sides both appear to head/kick the ball on at the same time?
Tycho said:
You are missing the fact that it is easy to see when the ball is played headed or not from a wide view compared to if the player is offside, you have cameras all running and time stamped so it is easy to link the exact time a ball is passed to the location of any player on the pitch. The chips would say if a player is offside when the ball is played rather than having to draw lines. The WC had chips in the ball but this is Adidas tech and the PL uses Nike balls so it can't be used.
Offside isn't a clear and obvious error, it is one of the events that is binary. You are offside or not, there is no subjectivity which is why they draw the lines. IMO they should get 10 seconds to look at it and if they can't prove the player is offside then they get the benefit of the doubt.
IMO the Forest penalty shouts were clear and obvious but we all know that the VAR officials hide behind this excuse as it is subjective so they don't make their mates look bad.
I disagree with everything you said.The point of contact is often not clear.Offside isn't a clear and obvious error, it is one of the events that is binary. You are offside or not, there is no subjectivity which is why they draw the lines. IMO they should get 10 seconds to look at it and if they can't prove the player is offside then they get the benefit of the doubt.
IMO the Forest penalty shouts were clear and obvious but we all know that the VAR officials hide behind this excuse as it is subjective so they don't make their mates look bad.
As for the Forest game,the 1st 2 weren't clear and obvious,they were down to interpretation of the rules,the 3rd one was a penalty all day long
billbring said:
That decision was a shambles, I was watching on tv and jumped up to celebrate the Coventry goal, christ knows what it would have been like if I actually supported them.
The thing for me is, the players have to decide on their positioning based on what they can see with their eyes, they can't slow things down and bring out a fking micrometer on a computer screen to help them so why should the referees have that luxury.
Nobody watching at home could see it was offside, the referee couldn't, the linesman who was perfectly in line couldn't, but somebody in a studio could. That isn't what sport is about.
A better version of VAR would be, the referee gets alerted that they've made a clear error and then they review it themselves on a pitch-side monitor, once, at full speed and given an opportunity to change their decision.
They are supposed to do this already IIRC but it happens too rarely IMO and when they do then the crowd know that the decision is going to be changed as they will see the event as a still picture first which will show it looking worse than it is and also in slow motion.The thing for me is, the players have to decide on their positioning based on what they can see with their eyes, they can't slow things down and bring out a f
king micrometer on a computer screen to help them so why should the referees have that luxury.Nobody watching at home could see it was offside, the referee couldn't, the linesman who was perfectly in line couldn't, but somebody in a studio could. That isn't what sport is about.
A better version of VAR would be, the referee gets alerted that they've made a clear error and then they review it themselves on a pitch-side monitor, once, at full speed and given an opportunity to change their decision.
If it worked as you said then it might be better but at the moment you get decisions like Doku on MacAllister which is a clear and obvious as it gets IMO being ignored so they don't "re-referee" the game. VAR is there specifically to re-referee games if there is a mistake!!! Then Howard Webb comes on TV to say that the video he is watching doesn't show what it shows and we are all wrong.
The VAR refs and on field refs need to be independent pools so there is no need to think about if it looks bad to change the refs decision and they also need to be banned from refereeing in other countries whose leagues are run by people who own PL clubs. This would help shut down any corruption or boys club complaints from fans.
I'm against VAR, it should be used for goal line tech and nothing else.
The problem is the moaning of fans / media when refs have got stuff wrong historically. No one can let a decision go against them and shrug their shoulders and say "Well it'll even itself out over the course of a season"
Who would want to be a ref, they get so much grief, so they brought in VAR to give them a safety net, but it's ruined the game.
Get rid of VAR and fans stop crying about decisions would be the way forward for me.
The problem is the moaning of fans / media when refs have got stuff wrong historically. No one can let a decision go against them and shrug their shoulders and say "Well it'll even itself out over the course of a season"
Who would want to be a ref, they get so much grief, so they brought in VAR to give them a safety net, but it's ruined the game.
Get rid of VAR and fans stop crying about decisions would be the way forward for me.
Bluevanman said:
RichB said:
Simple, just make it the position of the feet, forget all this any part of the body you can score with which includes the upper arm these days, depending on how long the VAR person thinks a T-shirt sleeve is!
You're talking about changing the offside rule itself, not VARNot sure what people were moaning about, the Coventry 'winner' was offside.
As funny as it would have been, you don't want an incorrect decision deciding who goes to Wembley.
I see the point about speeding it up but that's what the semi automated technology coming in next year will do.
As funny as it would have been, you don't want an incorrect decision deciding who goes to Wembley.
I see the point about speeding it up but that's what the semi automated technology coming in next year will do.
Gary29 said:
I'm against VAR, it should be used for goal line tech and nothing else.
The problem is the moaning of fans / media when refs have got stuff wrong historically. No one can let a decision go against them and shrug their shoulders and say "Well it'll even itself out over the course of a season"
Who would want to be a ref, they get so much grief, so they brought in VAR to give them a safety net, but it's ruined the game.
Get rid of VAR and fans stop crying about decisions would be the way forward for me.
VAR has nothing to do with goal line technology, different systems The problem is the moaning of fans / media when refs have got stuff wrong historically. No one can let a decision go against them and shrug their shoulders and say "Well it'll even itself out over the course of a season"
Who would want to be a ref, they get so much grief, so they brought in VAR to give them a safety net, but it's ruined the game.
Get rid of VAR and fans stop crying about decisions would be the way forward for me.
Gary29 said:
Get rid of VAR and fans stop crying about decisions would be the way forward for me.
Fans are the biggest issue. They bemoan the fact that ref's missed something in the game, but now we have VAR they moan that it takes too long. I do agree that there needs to be a element of leeway on the offsides. If you have to draw a line then to work out the exact millimetre then its should be the on field decision.
The biggest issue for me at the moment is the handball rule. They have made a right mess of it, and no-one know what is handball or not.
AWB got a pen against him yesterday, but Grealish didn't even though the City one was further away and look more obvious.
RichB said:
o the naked eye the players were level and that is not offside.
The whole point of var is because the naked eye doesn't always spot things correctly. The other thing I hate about var; people at home watching on tv knew it was going to be called offside before the fans in the ground. That's just wrong. If we are going to persist with this nonsense, then the lines we see on tv should not be shown to us until after the ref has been told what the outcome is
and given the decision.
Tycho said:
I guess the only way to do it would have chips in the shirts and all in a specific place. Then you'd have to change the rule to be only if the chip was offside. It's not ideal but could be a lot quicker and definitive rather than depending on where the official decides to put the lines. I guess the other alternative would be like in the World Cup and have a lot of cameras down the sideline and use an automated system which seemed to work well in the WC but for some reason the FA or PL didn't want it.
I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
Nothing to do with Atwell (VAR official) being an ardent life long Luton supporter and who are forest in a relegation battle with. I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
Oh yeah Luton.
I’m not a forest fan, other side of the river (Notts county, and we hate Forrest) even I can see the irony of Forrest’s issue.
MB140 said:
Tycho said:
I guess the only way to do it would have chips in the shirts and all in a specific place. Then you'd have to change the rule to be only if the chip was offside. It's not ideal but could be a lot quicker and definitive rather than depending on where the official decides to put the lines. I guess the other alternative would be like in the World Cup and have a lot of cameras down the sideline and use an automated system which seemed to work well in the WC but for some reason the FA or PL didn't want it.
I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
Nothing to do with Atwell (VAR official) being an ardent life long Luton supporter and who are forest in a relegation battle with. I feel sorry for Forest this weekend as they had at least 2 obvious penalty decisions not given and TBH the 3rd one was probably a penalty as well. No idea why the VAR officials didn't tell the ref to look at it again.
P.S. Clattenburg can FRO as well.
Oh yeah Luton.
I’m not a forest fan, other side of the river (Notts county, and we hate Forrest) even I can see the irony of Forrest’s issue.
And it doesn't have to be corruption, it can be unconscious bias...
https://amp.sportsmole.co.uk/people/stuart-attwell...
Re the Everton game, they were all subjective, possibly barring the foul from behind, which ref indicates no contact. As such, it's a clear and obvious error, and ref should have been told as much, with the option to review on the side of the pitch (and penalty ultimately given)
The problem for me is that "big" clubs get these decisions all the time. I'd say it's known that Everton and Wolves have had a few bad decisions this season, so possibly it played on the officials minds not to give anything soft against Everton?? (First two would have been soft IMO, particularly the handball which Young had no time to react to. And hand was natural for the action he was performing). Grealish one in the semi was far more blatant and I'm surprised there's not more noise. It's almost as bad as this one on the line against Everton which also wasn't given. VAR said "Hands by his side"....
And what Forest are trying to achieve is to ensure the next time it's subjective, it goes in their favour
Gary29 said:
The problem is the moaning of fans / media when refs have got stuff wrong historically. No one can let a decision go against them and shrug their shoulders and say "Well it'll even itself out over the course of a season"
Who would want to be a ref, they get so much grief, so they brought in VAR to give them a safety net, but it's ruined the game.
Get rid of VAR and fans stop crying about decisions would be the way forward for me.
One thing that really pees me off is these players all try to deceive the ref continually. They then get frustrated when decisions don't go their way. Who would want to be a ref, they get so much grief, so they brought in VAR to give them a safety net, but it's ruined the game.
Get rid of VAR and fans stop crying about decisions would be the way forward for me.
VAR is a horrific addition to the modern game. It's made an exciting and fast paced sport into a game of measuring, rules, slow reviews.
Audio footage of Everton v Forest has been released. Draw your own conclusions…
https://youtu.be/xx0bYx6orZ0?si=OkUgb9nQkdKPw9-s
https://youtu.be/xx0bYx6orZ0?si=OkUgb9nQkdKPw9-s
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