The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 15]

The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 15]

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Pommy

10,124 posts

163 months

Tuesday 19th March
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desolate said:
epom said:
I had just put Owen and number 10 on my new jersey. 2 days before he left. I'd have forgiven him if he didn't go to them.
Torres, he's back in my good books. My God he was incredible. Suarez the same, he gave every last ounce he had to deliver us the title before he left, he left with his head held high imo.
Suarez probably the best player to play for us since the 80s.
No that would be Gerrard.

Keyser Soze

18,878 posts

138 months

Tuesday 19th March
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Black can man said:
Keyser byebye
Ahhhh was it previous volume then?

desolate

19,292 posts

175 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Pommy said:
No that would be Gerrard.
I think Suarez is a better player than Gerard was.
And PC is my favourite player since Barnes and Dalglish.
That last one will change if he signs for another English club

NRS

15,044 posts

148 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Stop posting chaps! 3 pages left until the troublemakers are allowed back, so avoid posting to delay it as long as possible! Sye's unfortunate collateral damage as a result.

Black can man

31,433 posts

115 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Keyser Soze said:
Ahhhh was it previous volume then?
No, not been banned from this thread for a good few volumes now ,

I think you are mistaking myself for you’re bad boy ORD !

Only a few posts now & the gang will be back together.


Edited by Black can man on Tuesday 19th March 11:41

wjb

4,743 posts

78 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Shall we keep posting then, help bring them back from excile smile

I don't even post in the spurs thread, pathetic at best some of that lot.

jammy-git

23,553 posts

159 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
NRS said:
Stop posting chaps! 3 pages left until the troublemakers are allowed back, so avoid posting to delay it as long as possible! Sye's unfortunate collateral damage as a result.
International break. Could take a good fortnight or more before we get to the next volume...

BossHogg

3,710 posts

125 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Keep posting chaps, won't be long before they're topic banned again. wink

Pommy

10,124 posts

163 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
desolate said:
Pommy said:
No that would be Gerrard.
I think Suarez is a better player than Gerard was.
And PC is my favourite player since Barnes and Dalglish.
That last one will change if he signs for another English club
No way - Gerrard was a much better player.

Suarez scored goals. That's it.

Gerrard was the everyman, he single handedly got us places we didn't deserve to be and both on and off the pitch drove us forward. Suarez? Hmm, scored goals. That's it imho.



Cbull

4,299 posts

118 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Flip Martian said:
I disliked Torres before reading the book, for similar reasons people hate Owen now - after reading it I didn't, and totally understood why he left as he did. Similar with Owen. Clubs can be pretty stty to work for, same as any other workplace, I guess.
In a nutshell I'm curious what Torres said were his reasons for leaving?

At least we got some money back for Torres, Sterling and Suarez. Running contracts is a pretty low thing to do in my eyes but each to their own.

jammy-git

23,553 posts

159 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Pommy said:
No way - Gerrard was a much better player.

Suarez scored goals. That's it.

Gerrard was the everyman, he single handedly got us places we didn't deserve to be and both on and off the pitch drove us forward. Suarez? Hmm, scored goals. That's it imho.
For me they were equally as skilled. Suarez could pull a goal from nothing, in a way that I've only ever seen Messi do on a consistent basis. He'd also never give up running, chasing down, creating chances.

Gerrard however, embodied Liverpool. He dragged a pretty average side (at times) up to a level where we were nearly always competing for some trophy or title.

Gerrard in Instanbul or that FA Cup final. Suarez against Norwich (multiple times). Players that could win games single-handed or pull a team up by their boot laces.

It's completely subjective to say one was better than the other, it's merely expressing a preference. What I would have given to see both play for Liverpool at their peak.

NRS

15,044 posts

148 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
jammy-git said:
International break. Could take a good fortnight or more before we get to the next volume...
BossHogg said:
Keep posting chaps, won't be long before they're topic banned again. wink
hehe I'm already preparing my "report" submissions as we write!

Cbull said:
In a nutshell I'm curious what Torres said were his reasons for leaving?

At least we got some money back for Torres, Sterling and Suarez. Running contracts is a pretty low thing to do in my eyes but each to their own.
It's tricky - if in your normal job you had a contract and would get say 30 million if you ran it down would you not do it? When it comes to it then it's "just" a job to them. As others have said before you can set up your family for life, and likely several more generations, if they use it wisely. Remember just as the players can choose to run down a contract, a club can choose to dump a player if they get injured/ club buys someone better etc. It's not like the club will be faithful to a player, if they think it's better with someone else.

ApOrbital

6,548 posts

65 months

Tuesday 19th March
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zz wants mane not the band btw.

ChocolateFrog

6,401 posts

120 months

Tuesday 19th March
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Robertson is missing the first Scotland game with a tooth abscess, not complaining, take it easy lad.

ChocolateFrog

6,401 posts

120 months

Tuesday 19th March
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Personal opinion is Suarez and PC to a lesser degree were better technical footballers but Gerrard combined the skill with athleticism, drive and sheer guts at times, which made him the more valuable player.

So glad he stayed for his whole career, feels like weeks ago that he was 16 or 17 year old starting out at RB, that said I must have been about 13 eek

Flip Martian

11,772 posts

137 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Cbull said:
In a nutshell I'm curious what Torres said were his reasons for leaving?

At least we got some money back for Torres, Sterling and Suarez. Running contracts is a pretty low thing to do in my eyes but each to their own.
Torres...I'll try and summarise the relevant bits of the interview.

Athletico were always "his" club and still are, although he also now loves Liverpool and the fans. Liverpool came in for himand he could see a successful team going places - with some Spaniards there to make it easier, at a time when Athletico were going a bit backwards. He loved being at Liverpool but in the season before he left, with stuff starting to go wrong under Gillette and Hicks, the club was selling good players and not replacing them - Alonso, Mascherano, and Benitez were leaving. While still being told the club was moving forward and building for success, they were clearly going backwards. Before his last season, he (not his agent, him) met with Purslow and Roy Hodgson who had recently come in and discussed his concerns. Purslow told him they were trying to find a new buyer for the club and "no-one else is now being sold as the club is more valuable with you here". He was then told "when we find a buyer, then you can leave".

He liked Hodgson - "great coach, great guy" - but the club brought in "all these Australian people" (apparently a new medical team) who controlled everything - who could play and who couldn't; Hodgson had no control over who he could choose for the team. From that pre season to the January when he left, it was a nightmare for everyone - Hodgson included.

Once the new regime came in, Torres met with Comolli, the new director of football, who also told him he couldn't leave - primarily because they had no-one else who could score goals. Comolli told him they were signing Suarez - but Suarez wasn't a main goalscorer and was the man who slotted in behind the striker (!!) so Torres couldn't leave until at least the summer when they could find a replacement for him.

Comolli told him how FSG wanted to rebuild Liverpool by buying young players - and Torres, at 27, was thinking "I want to win things and don't have 5 or 6 years to wait for that to happen". He also said he wasn't sure Comolli cared anything about Liverpool at all, or that they were going to be successful the way the club was being run. He met with Dalglish who was now manager and told him nobody seemed to want him to stay for the right reasons - it was always "you can go when the time is right for us but until then, you stay". If Dalglish had wanted him to stay, he would have, he says - but again, no inkling anyone was really bothered.

He had a chance to go in January and wasn't sure after a bad season for LFC whether those clubs would be around in the summer for him. At this point, it seems LFC leaked to the press that Torres wanted to leave - he says it must have been them as he hadn't. They basically made it look like he was a traitor and was refusing to train and so on - which wasn't the case. Ultimately the club twisted things so everyone thought he'd demanded a last minute transfer and downed tools until he got one - something he says was definitely not the case. Ultimately however, he decided he wanted to go (hardly surprising when your employer tells the world you're a traitor...) and Chelsea paid through the nose to get him.

To be honest it sounds similar to the "Gerrard just wanted to feel wanted" stuff that nearly led to him going to Chelsea in 2005. Get the impression though something in Torres died when he left. Whatever anyone thinks of him about him leaving - he still loves the club.


BrabusMog

14,857 posts

133 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
Flip Martian said:
Cbull said:
In a nutshell I'm curious what Torres said were his reasons for leaving?

At least we got some money back for Torres, Sterling and Suarez. Running contracts is a pretty low thing to do in my eyes but each to their own.
Torres...I'll try and summarise the relevant bits of the interview.

Athletico were always "his" club and still are, although he also now loves Liverpool and the fans. Liverpool came in for himand he could see a successful team going places - with some Spaniards there to make it easier, at a time when Athletico were going a bit backwards. He loved being at Liverpool but in the season before he left, with stuff starting to go wrong under Gillette and Hicks, the club was selling good players and not replacing them - Alonso, Mascherano, and Benitez were leaving. While still being told the club was moving forward and building for success, they were clearly going backwards. Before his last season, he (not his agent, him) met with Purslow and Roy Hodgson who had recently come in and discussed his concerns. Purslow told him they were trying to find a new buyer for the club and "no-one else is now being sold as the club is more valuable with you here". He was then told "when we find a buyer, then you can leave".

He liked Hodgson - "great coach, great guy" - but the club brought in "all these Australian people" (apparently a new medical team) who controlled everything - who could play and who couldn't; Hodgson had no control over who he could choose for the team. From that pre season to the January when he left, it was a nightmare for everyone - Hodgson included.

Once the new regime came in, Torres met with Comolli, the new director of football, who also told him he couldn't leave - primarily because they had no-one else who could score goals. Comolli told him they were signing Suarez - but Suarez wasn't a main goalscorer and was the man who slotted in behind the striker (!!) so Torres couldn't leave until at least the summer when they could find a replacement for him.

Comolli told him how FSG wanted to rebuild Liverpool by buying young players - and Torres, at 27, was thinking "I want to win things and don't have 5 or 6 years to wait for that to happen". He also said he wasn't sure Comolli cared anything about Liverpool at all, or that they were going to be successful the way the club was being run. He met with Dalglish who was now manager and told him nobody seemed to want him to stay for the right reasons - it was always "you can go when the time is right for us but until then, you stay". If Dalglish had wanted him to stay, he would have, he says - but again, no inkling anyone was really bothered.

He had a chance to go in January and wasn't sure after a bad season for LFC whether those clubs would be around in the summer for him. At this point, it seems LFC leaked to the press that Torres wanted to leave - he says it must have been them as he hadn't. They basically made it look like he was a traitor and was refusing to train and so on - which wasn't the case. Ultimately the club twisted things so everyone thought he'd demanded a last minute transfer and downed tools until he got one - something he says was definitely not the case. Ultimately however, he decided he wanted to go (hardly surprising when your employer tells the world you're a traitor...) and Chelsea paid through the nose to get him.

To be honest it sounds similar to the "Gerrard just wanted to feel wanted" stuff that nearly led to him going to Chelsea in 2005. Get the impression though something in Torres died when he left. Whatever anyone thinks of him about him leaving - he still loves the club.
To believe that requires you to take him completely at face value.

desolate

19,292 posts

175 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
To believe that requires you to take him completely at face value.
The club was a shambles back then. New owners had come in under a cloud and mistakes were made in what was already a difficult job.

Flip Martian

11,772 posts

137 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
To believe that requires you to take him completely at face value.
Sure, same with any version of events. I didn't include the interview pre-amble. Torres rarely gives interviews and had never spoken about leaving LFC. He saw this as an opportunity to do so. He was described as pretty humble and shy but keen to get his point across - without slagging anyone off, it was all quite "this is what I said, this is what they said". It came across as believable.

jammy-git

23,553 posts

159 months

Tuesday 19th March
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
To believe that requires you to take him completely at face value.
Absolutely, but as has been said, it eerily echoes what Gerrard has said about his time at the club during the H&G era too.

Talking of previous strikers wanting to leave (and Gerrard), I saw these quotes from Suarez a few days ago:
Suarez said:
"I'm about to go to Arsenal, forcing myself to go, and Steven tells me 'I promise that if you stay this year you're going to take off and next year you'll go to Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid or whichever one you want, but stay this year because you won't be better off at Arsenal'."

"This was the last conversation I had with Gerrard at that moment and I told my agent that I had made my decision and I was staying.

"His words convinced me in that moment. They came from a person who cared for me, who wanted my well-being, who saw me suffer during training and saw me sad.

"They were words from a true captain that had an impact in that moment and helped me a lot."
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