The Official Tottenham Hotspur thread [Vol 14]
Discussion
M138 said:
‘You support the team whatever’ is exactly why Levy has got away with it so long.
Have to agree with this, I'll always be a Spurs fan but never understood this logic. If the club and\or the manager are getting it wrong to the point where you don't even enjoy watching it, it's our right to call it out, not shrug our shoulders and say support the team no matter what.48k said:
M138 said:
48k said:
M138 said:
VTC said:
M138 said:
Why didn’t he just stick his best eleven on from the start?
STOP PRESS"he is a useless fraud"
Do we pay more when we win? No.
The price is the price.
You support the team whatever.
‘You support the team whatever’ is exactly why Levy has got away with it so long.
Now you've changed your argument to the players not putting in a performance.
Difficult to have a reasonable discussion about it when the subject of the discussion keeps changing.
So.. I'm out.
Whose our best 11 players? I didn't see much wrong with the line-up. Only Tel and Davies are not first 11 regulars. Vic, Spence, Romero, Udogie, Bentancur, Gray, Bissouma, Johnson and Solanke are all regular, first 11 players.
Is this going to be the latest excuse now? That if we change two players, we are not playing our strongest team in the league games and we turn to crap? Jesus Christ the excuses just don't stop.
Is this going to be the latest excuse now? That if we change two players, we are not playing our strongest team in the league games and we turn to crap? Jesus Christ the excuses just don't stop.
Ange has said that he told the players not to prioritise the Europa League.
- Made 7 changes to the side that actually last won a game (showing priority to the Europa League?!) the week before going into an international break.
- Made a load of attacking subs, yet decided that taking off the only CB we had on the pitch and moving an 18 year old CM into CB again (because that has been great on so many occasions this season) was how we would win the game. Shockingly, both goals game from situations where the CB should be doing better.
- Arguing with fans again, as if we should all be grateful for this absolute slop he continues to serve up every single week.
There are no excuses now, all season long he's bemoaned injuries, which for sure is a mitigating circumstance but he has virtually a fully fit squad, bar kulusevski to play with and guess what - we're still losing games hand over fist!
You're not unlucky mate, you're just s
te.
- Made 7 changes to the side that actually last won a game (showing priority to the Europa League?!) the week before going into an international break.
- Made a load of attacking subs, yet decided that taking off the only CB we had on the pitch and moving an 18 year old CM into CB again (because that has been great on so many occasions this season) was how we would win the game. Shockingly, both goals game from situations where the CB should be doing better.
- Arguing with fans again, as if we should all be grateful for this absolute slop he continues to serve up every single week.
There are no excuses now, all season long he's bemoaned injuries, which for sure is a mitigating circumstance but he has virtually a fully fit squad, bar kulusevski to play with and guess what - we're still losing games hand over fist!
You're not unlucky mate, you're just s
te.Trash_panda said:
Spurs always perform badly after a mid week Europe game, if stato was still here he could show it but it happened during pochs tenure as well.
But yes, he needs to go though I guess, we could just be deluded as fans
We have lost the last 6 games before an international break which is always entertaining. But yes, he needs to go though I guess, we could just be deluded as fans
Well I guess whoever is manager next season probably won't have to play a dozen midweek Thursday to Sunday matches. So the league results will inevitably improve and we'll probably get a Conference place. Until the following season when Levy under-invests in the squad and the wheels fall off. Again.
Rinse and repeat.
Rinse and repeat.
TEKNOPUG]Well I guess whoever is manager next season probably [b said:
won't have to play a dozen midweek Thursday to Sunday matches.[\b] So the league results will inevitably improve and we'll probably get a Conference place. Until the following season when Levy under-invests in the squad and the wheels fall off. Again.
Rinse and repeat.
What you mean like every other team in the top 7. Some of them even have to play in the CL against proper teams so have to put out full strength squads.Rinse and repeat.
And the Ange excuses just keep coming.
Guvernator said:
TEKNOPUG]Well I guess whoever is manager next season probably [b said:
won't have to play a dozen midweek Thursday to Sunday matches.[\b] So the league results will inevitably improve and we'll probably get a Conference place. Until the following season when Levy under-invests in the squad and the wheels fall off. Again.
Rinse and repeat.
What you mean like every other team in the top 7. Some of them even have to play in the CL against proper teams so have to put out full strength squads.Rinse and repeat.
And the Ange excuses just keep coming.
It's not an Ange excuse, it's a Levy accusation.
Or do we think that Forest/Newcastle/Brighton will all be finishing top 6 again next season, whilst also competing in Europe?
TEKNOPUG said:
By the top 7 teams you mean, Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool, United and Villa? All teams that spend massively more in real-terms or as a proportion of wages than we do? Although Villa are currently 9th (from 5th last season) and United are a basket-case.
It's not an Ange excuse, it's a Levy accusation.
Or do we think that Forest/Newcastle/Brighton will all be finishing top 6 again next season, whilst also competing in Europe?
I'd like to think that they'd all be there or thereabouts because they don't have basket case managers.It's not an Ange excuse, it's a Levy accusation.
Or do we think that Forest/Newcastle/Brighton will all be finishing top 6 again next season, whilst also competing in Europe?
During the Poch era when Levy was still in charge, we had consecutive top 6 finishes while also competing in the CL so it is possible IF you have the right manager.
Guvernator said:
TEKNOPUG said:
By the top 7 teams you mean, Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Liverpool, United and Villa? All teams that spend massively more in real-terms or as a proportion of wages than we do? Although Villa are currently 9th (from 5th last season) and United are a basket-case.
It's not an Ange excuse, it's a Levy accusation.
Or do we think that Forest/Newcastle/Brighton will all be finishing top 6 again next season, whilst also competing in Europe?
I'd like to think that they'd all be there or thereabouts because they don't have basket case managers.It's not an Ange excuse, it's a Levy accusation.
Or do we think that Forest/Newcastle/Brighton will all be finishing top 6 again next season, whilst also competing in Europe?
During the Poch era when Levy was still in charge, we had consecutive top 6 finishes while also competing in the CL so it is possible IF you have the right manager.
2019 - Leicester = 3 and Wolves = 6
The following season they finished 10 & 9
2020 - Southampton = 5
The following season they finished 15
2021 - West Ham = 6
The following season they finished 13
2022 - Newcastle = 4
The following season they finished 8
2023 - Villa = 2
The following season they finished 6
2024 - Newcastle = 5 and Villa = 6
Currently 6 and 9
The manager is not the key component. It's the wage bill. Only the top 5 spend enough to have a large squad capable of competing in an additional 12-20 games. As for the Poch era, he had Kane. No way would Spurs ever have signed Kane.
TEKNOPUG said:
It's not though, is it? Take the last 5 years and the clubs outside the 5 spenders, who finished in European places and what happened the following season.
2019 - Leicester = 3 and Wolves = 6
The following season they finished 10 & 9
2020 - Southampton = 5
The following season they finished 15
2021 - West Ham = 6
The following season they finished 13
2022 - Newcastle = 4
The following season they finished 8
2023 - Villa = 2
The following season they finished 6
2024 - Newcastle = 5 and Villa = 6
Currently 6 and 9
The manager is not the key component. It's the wage bill. Only the top 5 spend enough to have a large squad capable of competing in an additional 12-20 games. As for the Poch era, he had Kane. No way would Spurs ever have signed Kane.
Where are you getting those finishing positions from? 2019 - Leicester = 3 and Wolves = 6
The following season they finished 10 & 9
2020 - Southampton = 5
The following season they finished 15
2021 - West Ham = 6
The following season they finished 13
2022 - Newcastle = 4
The following season they finished 8
2023 - Villa = 2
The following season they finished 6
2024 - Newcastle = 5 and Villa = 6
Currently 6 and 9
The manager is not the key component. It's the wage bill. Only the top 5 spend enough to have a large squad capable of competing in an additional 12-20 games. As for the Poch era, he had Kane. No way would Spurs ever have signed Kane.
Wolves for example 2018-19 finished 7th (Right after promotion).
That secured Europa League.
The following season we finished 7th again along with Europa quarter finals.
If little ol Wolves can manage it why can't you guys?
In 5 years before Harry Kane's emergence, we still finished in the top 6 and where playing in the CL or Europa every year. We may not spend as much on wages as the top 4 or 5 teams but let's not pretend we are on the same level financially as Wolves, Leicester or some of the other teams mentioned either. Only Newcastle potentially have more financial clout than us and they've haven't exactly gone on a mad spending spree since being taken over.
We've shown we are capable of playing in Europe and finishing in the top 6 over many seasons and multiple managers, all with Levy at the helm and with arguably worse squads.
The reason we are 14th is not because we can't cope with the demands of playing in Europe as well as the PL, the reason we are 14th is because our current manager is failing at his job.
We've shown we are capable of playing in Europe and finishing in the top 6 over many seasons and multiple managers, all with Levy at the helm and with arguably worse squads.
The reason we are 14th is not because we can't cope with the demands of playing in Europe as well as the PL, the reason we are 14th is because our current manager is failing at his job.
Edited by Guvernator on Tuesday 18th March 13:54
Guvernator said:
In 5 years before Harry Kane's emergence, we still finished in the top 6 and where playing in the CL or Europa every year. We may not spend as much on wages as the top 4 or 5 teams but let's not pretend we are on the same level financially as Wolves, Leicester or some of the other teams mentioned either. Only Newcastle potentially have more financial clout than us and they've haven't exactly gone on a mad spending spree since being taken over.
We've shown we are capable of playing in Europe and finishing in the top 6 over many seasons and multiple managers, all with Levy at the helm and with arguably worse squads.
The reason we are 14th is not because we can't cope with the demands of playing in Europe as well as the PL, the reason we are 14th is because our current manager is failing at his job.
I wasn't talking about the manager....We've shown we are capable of playing in Europe and finishing in the top 6 over many seasons and multiple managers, all with Levy at the helm and with arguably worse squads.
The reason we are 14th is not because we can't cope with the demands of playing in Europe as well as the PL, the reason we are 14th is because our current manager is failing at his job.
Edited by Guvernator on Tuesday 18th March 13:54
Falling for Levy's trick that qualifying for "Europe" is success even though the 5 years before Kane we won zip, zilch, nada and every year during and after. Maybe now is a good time to place a bet on us winning the "Top 6 Trophy" next year. Proportion of wages/turnover has decreased year on year. We're spending less on wages in real terms than all the years when we consistently qualified for Europe. Levy happy for someone else to take the flack currently thouugh.
TEKNOPUG said:
I wasn't talking about the manager....
Falling for Levy's trick that qualifying for "Europe" is success even though the 5 years before Kane we won zip, zilch, nada and every year during and after. Maybe now is a good time to place a bet on us winning the "Top 6 Trophy" next year. Proportion of wages/turnover has decreased year on year. We're spending less on wages in real terms than all the years when we consistently qualified for Europe. Levy happy for someone else to take the flack currently thouugh.
You can't just take wages in isolation, it's a combination of wages AND money spent on transfers that determines success. We might not be up there with the first but we are definitely right amongst it with the second. The first probably indicates player quality more than the second but the two certainly aren't completely disassociated. I'm sure Wolves or in fact any former Spurs manager would have loved to have been given £400m to spend on transfers like Ange has.Falling for Levy's trick that qualifying for "Europe" is success even though the 5 years before Kane we won zip, zilch, nada and every year during and after. Maybe now is a good time to place a bet on us winning the "Top 6 Trophy" next year. Proportion of wages/turnover has decreased year on year. We're spending less on wages in real terms than all the years when we consistently qualified for Europe. Levy happy for someone else to take the flack currently thouugh.
I'm also not falling for a trick but accepting reality. Seeing as Levy doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon and he doesn't seem willing to go that last extra mile to take us to the next level, I think we need to re-evaluate our expectations on things we can reasonably achieve and right now, the Top 6 Trophy is infinitely more appealing than sitting in 14th.
Sycamore said:
Where are you getting those finishing positions from?
Wolves for example 2018-19 finished 7th (Right after promotion).
That secured Europa League.
The following season we finished 7th again along with Europa quarter finals.
If little ol Wolves can manage it why can't you guys?
My mistake, those are calendar finishes.Wolves for example 2018-19 finished 7th (Right after promotion).
That secured Europa League.
The following season we finished 7th again along with Europa quarter finals.
If little ol Wolves can manage it why can't you guys?
Yes you finished 7th again the second season. Which didn't award a European competition place. Perhaps if you didn't play all those Europa games, you might have finished 6th?
Guvernator said:
You can't just take wages in isolation, it's a combination of wages AND money spent on transfers that determines success. We might not be up there with the first but we are definitely right amongst it with the second. The first probably indicates player quality more than the second but the two certainly aren't completely disassociated. I'm sure Wolves or in fact any former Spurs manager would have loved to have been given £400m to spend on transfers like Ange has.
I'm also not falling for a trick but accepting reality. Seeing as Levy doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon and he doesn't seem willing to go that last extra mile to take us to the next level, I think we need to re-evaluate our expectations on things we can reasonably achieve and right now, the Top 6 Trophy is infinitely more appealing than sitting in 14th.
It really is about wages. Top 5 spenders have won 28 of the last 31 domestic trophies. 85% of all domestic trophies since the Inception of the EPL. Arsenal have 18 players on 100k+ a week. We have 5. All the other top spenders have 12+ players on 100k+ a week. he best players command the biggest wages. We don't pay big wages so we don't sign the best players.I'm also not falling for a trick but accepting reality. Seeing as Levy doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon and he doesn't seem willing to go that last extra mile to take us to the next level, I think we need to re-evaluate our expectations on things we can reasonably achieve and right now, the Top 6 Trophy is infinitely more appealing than sitting in 14th.
Do you honestly think that the manager signs the players he wants? That's why Ange signed 7 U21s from outside the EPL, instead of a load of 26/7 yo with big league experience? What is Lange/Paratici doing whilst Ange is signing all these players? We all know that the manager is given a pre-approved list based on Levy's age and salary profile. Pep could be manager and we'd still have 90% of the same squad.
Levy employed Ange remember. He also failed to back Poch (and Harry) sacked Jose before a cup final and got called out by Conte. Sold Kane and is no trying to rebuild the squad whilst reducing the wage bill even further, by signing a load of kids. But it's OK because he'll dig the right manager next time and we might get a Conference place...
As you say, we used to regularly compete for European places but the current squad is miles off that, notwithstanding the current manager's abilities. And no managerial appointment is going to change that. We're going to be a mid team for the foreseeable future, where everyone gets excited every couple of years when we get to play Bumfuk Sharrabang on a Thursday night
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