The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)
Discussion
Challo said:
That did look odd. 7+1 year deal, not joining until 2026, playing for a team that already has lots of wide players already on their books.
Its a shame as reading reports he would have been ideal on the other WB. Fingers crossed the club are trying to find another gem for 50p we can sign.
Don't worry, Sancho is coming back. Chelsea would rather pay the fine than keep him.Its a shame as reading reports he would have been ideal on the other WB. Fingers crossed the club are trying to find another gem for 50p we can sign.
Edited by Challo on Friday 14th March 09:19
Challo said:
GTO-3R said:
Nothing weird about Chelsea signing Quenda in the middle of the night on an 8 year contract though...
That did look odd. 7+1 year deal, not joining until 2026, playing for a team that already has lots of wide players already on their books. Its a shame as reading reports he would have been ideal on the other WB. Fingers crossed the club are trying to find another gem for 50p we can sign.
Edited by Challo on Friday 14th March 09:19
redstar1 said:
Challo said:
That did look odd. 7+1 year deal, not joining until 2026, playing for a team that already has lots of wide players already on their books.
Its a shame as reading reports he would have been ideal on the other WB. Fingers crossed the club are trying to find another gem for 50p we can sign.
Don't worry, Sancho is coming back. Chelsea would rather pay the fine than keep him.Its a shame as reading reports he would have been ideal on the other WB. Fingers crossed the club are trying to find another gem for 50p we can sign.
Edited by Challo on Friday 14th March 09:19
I think with the team where it is, 40-50 mil on a wing back who is 17 years old and hasn't played in the PL before would be crazy.
That's the kind of signing we may be able to make in a few years time once we've got the basics in place.
You don't spend that on an unproven 17 year old when you have a striker who is on the same amount of PL goals as your centre back
That's the kind of signing we may be able to make in a few years time once we've got the basics in place.
You don't spend that on an unproven 17 year old when you have a striker who is on the same amount of PL goals as your centre back
redstar1 said:
Challo said:
That did look odd. 7+1 year deal, not joining until 2026, playing for a team that already has lots of wide players already on their books.
Its a shame as reading reports he would have been ideal on the other WB. Fingers crossed the club are trying to find another gem for 50p we can sign.
Don't worry, Sancho is coming back. Chelsea would rather pay the fine than keep him.Its a shame as reading reports he would have been ideal on the other WB. Fingers crossed the club are trying to find another gem for 50p we can sign.
Edited by Challo on Friday 14th March 09:19
What does the fine relate to?
Challo said:
Do you know what the details are behind the deal? From what I can quickly find on google its an obligation to buy if Chelsea finish up higher than 14th?
What does the fine relate to?
There was a large fine put in place should they decide not to go ahead with the deal apparently.What does the fine relate to?
Seems they may want to pay it other than keep him and if that's the case, then it says all you need to know...
GTO-3R said:
Challo said:
Do you know what the details are behind the deal? From what I can quickly find on google its an obligation to buy if Chelsea finish up higher than 14th?
What does the fine relate to?
There was a large fine put in place should they decide not to go ahead with the deal apparently.What does the fine relate to?
Seems they may want to pay it other than keep him and if that's the case, then it says all you need to know...
Anyhow maybe Amorin could get a tune out of him? There's a fantastic player in there somewhere!!
dickymint said:
Some info on this video which is worth a watch anyway.............
Anyhow maybe Amorin could get a tune out of him? There's a fantastic player in there somewhere!!
He's one of the players we still owe money on this summer, think it's the last payment. If he comes back, with the fine Chelsea will pay it would only need 15 mill or so for us to break even so I expect him to be shipped out.Anyhow maybe Amorin could get a tune out of him? There's a fantastic player in there somewhere!!
Thought the team looked to have a better balance last night, not a lot of panic in the defence Dorghu gave the ball away a few times but never shied away from wanting it, he played really well and caused loads of problems for Sociedad though, Cas had a good game and of course Bruno played like he really wanted the team to up the speed of play. Up front Rasmus really unlucky not to score but at least bullied the defence, ZZ lovely touches to beat players and Garnacho just needs to make up his mind quicker on playing the pass or having a go. Lastly does Onana always dive in the opposite direction when facing a penalty, think I've only seen him save one for Utd in the 2 years he's been there?
Leicester away Sunday lets hope the squad can carry on from the last 2 games.
Leicester away Sunday lets hope the squad can carry on from the last 2 games.
I suspect they will buy a big athletic monster to replace Cas amd we might see Kone and Collyer get minutes all 3 will sub for Ugarte in some games and share minutes with him playing alongside Bruno then in some more physical games two of them will play together and Bruno will be a #10 - options to change in game to fit the dynamics moving Bruno between #6 and #10
It’s hard to bet on Mount but if he could stay fit there would be Mainoo Bruno Amad Mount Garnacho and Zirkzee all as #10 options so maybe one is sold to raise funds
Rasmus Chido amd a new #9 for the #9 role
Feels more positive
Quite a bit turns on whether any more of the Academy can make the transition to first team squad and whether buys like Diego Leon can come in and support Dorgu as a wing back - already it’s clear that the system works so much better with one proper wing back - will be great with two able to bomb on and with more athleticism centrally
Heaven and Yoro either side of de Ligt feels light years better than Maguire Linda and Martinez - I linked Martinez and he will obviously have a big role but the recovery speed and greater power of Heaven feels like it will add a lot
SJRs comments makes me feel like there will be a new keeper arriving to compete with and probably replace Onana
It’s hard to bet on Mount but if he could stay fit there would be Mainoo Bruno Amad Mount Garnacho and Zirkzee all as #10 options so maybe one is sold to raise funds
Rasmus Chido amd a new #9 for the #9 role
Feels more positive
Quite a bit turns on whether any more of the Academy can make the transition to first team squad and whether buys like Diego Leon can come in and support Dorgu as a wing back - already it’s clear that the system works so much better with one proper wing back - will be great with two able to bomb on and with more athleticism centrally
Heaven and Yoro either side of de Ligt feels light years better than Maguire Linda and Martinez - I linked Martinez and he will obviously have a big role but the recovery speed and greater power of Heaven feels like it will add a lot
SJRs comments makes me feel like there will be a new keeper arriving to compete with and probably replace Onana
Edited by FlyingTrotter on Saturday 15th March 08:31
said:
Malacia and Antony will also hopefully go so that free up some funds. I do agree that we need to improve our physicality, and Amorim has mentioned that a number of times.
On a side note it does make me chuckle how it’s all gone quiet on the 3-4-3 system. Apparently it was terrible. Amorim is so arrogant, we don’t have a plan b, we should just play 4-2-3-1 till we get the players in.
Now I know it’s early days, and could all come crashing down tomorrow. But you can see with the game vs Arsenal and the win in Europe that he can be flexible, tweak the system depending on the opponent. It’s early days but we have started to see the green shoots in game and long may it continue.
Challo said:
On a side note it does make me chuckle how it’s all gone quiet on the 3-4-3 system. Apparently it was terrible. Amorim is so arrogant, we don’t have a plan b, we should just play 4-2-3-1 till we get the players in.
Just to be clear, Amorim himself said he has no plan B, he has one idea and one way of playing. No one said that for him, it's his words.My stance has always been that we're setting ourselves up for failure by consistently playing with two central midfielders against three in the Premier League. Our average of one point per game confirms that it hasn't worked, more than a one-off result against a Spanish side in Europe.
I also said before the Sociedad game that the slower pace of European football will suit how we play better, which transpired in the game.
In the PL, the physicality of the opposition’s midfield 3 overwhelms our 2, and their wingers pin our back five. Against Sociedad, without that physical disadvantage, we finally played a genuine back three, with Dorgu operating as an auxiliary winger. It’s arguably the first time all season we've played that way.
Before getting giddy with excitement, I'd like to see how we fare in upcoming games against the likes of Forest, Newcastle, Bournemouth. The last false dawn was after the Liverpool and Arsenal away games - those big games having 5 at the back is ok as you can soak up pressure and try to counter, hence we've had good results in bigger games. We had 31% possession at home vs Arsenal for example. Yet after those 2 good results last time, we got outplayed at home by the worst PL team in history at the time, before going on to win 1 out of our next 5 PL matches.
Do you still think all of our players are terrible after the last 2 games by the way?
simon800 said:
Challo said:
On a side note it does make me chuckle how it’s all gone quiet on the 3-4-3 system. Apparently it was terrible. Amorim is so arrogant, we don’t have a plan b, we should just play 4-2-3-1 till we get the players in.
Just to be clear, Amorim himself said he has no plan B, he has one idea and one way of playing. No one said that for him, it's his words.My stance has always been that we're setting ourselves up for failure by consistently playing with two central midfielders against three in the Premier League. Our average of one point per game confirms that it hasn't worked, more than a one-off result against a Spanish side in Europe.
I also said before the Sociedad game that the slower pace of European football will suit how we play better, which transpired in the game.
In the PL, the physicality of the opposition’s midfield 3 overwhelms our 2, and their wingers pin our back five. Against Sociedad, without that physical disadvantage, we finally played a genuine back three, with Dorgu operating as an auxiliary winger. It’s arguably the first time all season we've played that way.
Before getting giddy with excitement, I'd like to see how we fare in upcoming games against the likes of Forest, Newcastle, Bournemouth. The last false dawn was after the Liverpool and Arsenal away games - those big games having 5 at the back is ok as you can soak up pressure and try to counter, hence we've had good results in bigger games. We had 31% possession at home vs Arsenal for example. Yet after those 2 good results last time, we got outplayed at home by the worst PL team in history at the time, before going on to win 1 out of our next 5 PL matches.
Do you still think all of our players are terrible after the last 2 games by the way?
My point is that you can see as players learn the system, get more confidence they can start to play better. We have seen Zirkzee develop, Heaven and Dorgu play well, Casemiro has even had some good performances as Amorim works out how to play him.
The 3-4-3 is only the starting formation, but we switch into 4-4-2, 4-2-4, 5-3-2-1 depending on the game and if we are in our out of possession. Then do you press high like against Real, or sit in a low block vs Arsenal. It’s interchangeable, not rigid as some people are making out.
Like I said it’s green shoots but you can now start to see what he wants to do, how players can fit in.
There are players that are not good enough but they will need to be replaced.
Challo said:
I agree that at the moment Europe suits us, as it’s slower paced, and less physical which actually gives us an advantage. Also I agree that in the prem we are going to struggle due to having a lack of physicality and therefore we can get overrun at times.
My point is that you can see as players learn the system, get more confidence they can start to play better. We have seen Zirkzee develop, Heaven and Dorgu play well, Casemiro has even had some good performances as Amorim works out how to play him.
The 3-4-3 is only the starting formation, but we switch into 4-4-2, 4-2-4, 5-3-2-1 depending on the game and if we are in our out of possession. Then do you press high like against Real, or sit in a low block vs Arsenal. It’s interchangeable, not rigid as some people are making out.
Like I said it’s green shoots but you can now start to see what he wants to do, how players can fit in.
There are players that are not good enough but they will need to be replaced.
I think this is where some of the criticism is valid - how can it have taken 4 months for Amorim to realise Casemiro needs other legs closer to him to be effective? Anyone can see that, it's clear as day. But if he has finally realised, that is of course a good thing. Again the physicality of Sociedad suited Casemiro. Sticking him in a midfield 2 against the 3 beasts from Newcastle? Not so much, which is what I've been highlighting around the system exposing our players weaknesses.My point is that you can see as players learn the system, get more confidence they can start to play better. We have seen Zirkzee develop, Heaven and Dorgu play well, Casemiro has even had some good performances as Amorim works out how to play him.
The 3-4-3 is only the starting formation, but we switch into 4-4-2, 4-2-4, 5-3-2-1 depending on the game and if we are in our out of possession. Then do you press high like against Real, or sit in a low block vs Arsenal. It’s interchangeable, not rigid as some people are making out.
Like I said it’s green shoots but you can now start to see what he wants to do, how players can fit in.
There are players that are not good enough but they will need to be replaced.
Is it a case of everything just suddenly clicked into place last 2 games? Personally I'd like to see a greater body of evidence before reaching that conclusion. We have already seen that being defensive and having 5 across the back works against the bigger teams - we've done that to relative success against Liverpool, City, Arsenal already. That Arsenal home game, whilst of course a good result, doesn't really show us anything new. The Sociedad game was against an opposition where we weren't hamstrung by the system exacerbating our weaknesses because actually we were physically stronger/faster etc than them. We looked great, I enjoyed it massively.
If we go on to some very good performances vs teams like Newcastle, Forest who have had our number in the reverse fixtures, that will be very exciting indeed. I'd be delighted with that as a sign of progress and it would give great optimism. I remain a bit sceptical as to whether we will actually see that, but let's wait and see.
I completely agree that Heaven looked very good though, and Heaven/Dorgu down that left side looks far more suited to covering massive areas compared to say Martinez/Mazrouai.
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