Unlimited power, discuss!
Discussion
I've been trying to figure out what would happen (forces wise) if you did away with the trapdoor, spheres and such like and instead had a flexible but segmented (air sealed compartments) pipe which ran through a magical zero friction valve at the bottom, up around the pulleys etc.
I know it still wouldn't work from basic science, I also know I can't have "magical zero friction valves" - but what I can't figure is how does the buoyancy work in that situation? new pipe entering from the bottom does not displace any additional water - the existing pipe has already displaced the water. Seal the top of a straw and push it down into a glass and it displaces water hence there is a force to push it back up. What happens if the straw (or pipe in my hypothetical musing) enters from the bottom of the cup?
There must be some buoyancy as the pipe has displaced some water but in the act of moving the pipe up no water gets to move down - is there still buoyancy?
I know it still wouldn't work from basic science, I also know I can't have "magical zero friction valves" - but what I can't figure is how does the buoyancy work in that situation? new pipe entering from the bottom does not displace any additional water - the existing pipe has already displaced the water. Seal the top of a straw and push it down into a glass and it displaces water hence there is a force to push it back up. What happens if the straw (or pipe in my hypothetical musing) enters from the bottom of the cup?
There must be some buoyancy as the pipe has displaced some water but in the act of moving the pipe up no water gets to move down - is there still buoyancy?
No buoyancy - the water (heavier by volume than the pipe) cannot be drawn downwards due to gravity due to the consistent shape of the pipe.
A body floating to the top of a tank is always matched by an identical volume of fluid moving an identical distance downwards, driven by gravity. In your case, there is no space for the water to go downwards, ergo the body cannot move upwards unless pushed by an external actor.
A body floating to the top of a tank is always matched by an identical volume of fluid moving an identical distance downwards, driven by gravity. In your case, there is no space for the water to go downwards, ergo the body cannot move upwards unless pushed by an external actor.
billybob69 said:
the total energy in the universe is 0, therefore if you can harness negative energy could you make some sort of machine..?
Yes! We could call it Billybob's Negative Energy Machine! The total money in this idea is also 0. We just need a way to harness negative cash and we're away.
Speedy11 said:
blindswelledrat said:
To be fair to sidekick, there are a lot of people insulting and pouring scorn on it and I have yet to see a single person adequately explain why it wouldn't work.
Friction? INadequate torque? Im scientifically useless but that sounds like a load of crap to me. I would have said that if a machine could be made that produced more power than it took to function then it could be refined enough to make friction irrelevant.
If I were to take a pure guess it would be that the force needed to open the trap door with the weight of water would be equivalent or greater than the lift provided by the balls in the water.
Super Slow Mo said it and as did youFriction? INadequate torque? Im scientifically useless but that sounds like a load of crap to me. I would have said that if a machine could be made that produced more power than it took to function then it could be refined enough to make friction irrelevant.
If I were to take a pure guess it would be that the force needed to open the trap door with the weight of water would be equivalent or greater than the lift provided by the balls in the water.
Super Slo Mo said:
The friction won't help, but the overriding factor is going to be the force needed to push the water out of the way at the bottom, to lift the trapdoor.
The force to open a trap door or whatever to push the water out of the way would be greater than the force from the lift of the balls.One way or another you have to move the ball to the bottom of the tank, to alow it to float back up. The energy needed to do that will exceed the energy gained from the ball re-surfacing.
hornet said:
The thing I don't get is we are already in orbit round a source of (in human terms) unlimited power. Rather than fannying about with these contraptions or talking about extracting zero point energy, why don't all these people put their efforts into developing improved small scale solar devices and technologies? Most of them seem to be motivated not by the advancement of science, but by the alternative nature of it and the underlying conspiracy narrative. Whenever I heard a claim such as "well the Nazis had flying saucers powered by zero point energy!", my first thought isn't "well this must be exposed, we're clearly being lied to!", it's "really? So how come they lost?".
People are putting their efforts into nuclear fusion, which is effectively creating the sun's energy on earth. This will provide more energy out than is put in, as its a mass to energy conversion.rohrl said:
f
king magnets, how do they work?
Physics is either mainly magic or mainly lies.king magnets, how do they work?My computer works by physics, pictures and sound appear when I want them - clearly magic.
When I put my beer down, the table instantly pushes up with exactly the same force that my beer is pushing down with - clearly a lie.
In such a universe it is entirely possible to construct a machine that makes more energy than it uses, espcially based on designs that have been around for donkey's years, it's just that the appropriate magic rituals have not yet been performed.
98elise said:
People are putting their efforts into nuclear fusion, which is effectively creating the sun's energy on earth. This will provide more energy out than is put in, as its a mass to energy conversion.
Yes, but it's not perpetual because it uses hydrogen as a fuel and eventually that fuel will run out.All energy comes from matter, therefore even if you put petrol into a car engine, I suspect the mass of the exhaust gases is slightly less than the mass of the petrol, even though it's a chemical reaction and not nuclear.
Simpo Two said:
All energy comes from matter, therefore even if you put petrol into a car engine, I suspect the mass of the exhaust gases is slightly less than the mass of the petrol, even though it's a chemical reaction and not nuclear.
Chemical energy comes from the breaking (or creation) of chemical bonds. As bonds have no mass, when a chemical reaction occurs, even one that releases heat, there is no loss of mass. So the mass of the exhaust gasses is exactly the same as the mass of the petrol and air being fed into the engine.Gassing Station | Science! | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff