Black Holes are not actually "holes".
Discussion
Gene Vincent said:
Top lurking!
Thanks for the compliments, much appreciated.
In my opinion once you've read a bit of those books, you have to look at yourself and decide if you want to take the next step and there is no getting away from the fact that maths is the inevitable place to go, so a good book on maths that takes up where you left off previously, but aim for any that deal with Cosmology and its Maths it's a bit of hard work, a lot actually, but the limit of understanding is finally defined by maths. Otherwise just read what I put on here and take some of the words and hit Wiki and sometimes there are references to good books but each time the stumbling block is your own maths.
All the best to you and yours for the New Year.
Thanks for the reply, I had a feeling that maths was my next stop, I would say my basic math is good, up to, not including A-Level, but nowhere near the level of my lurking!... I must have been frequenting here for the last few years at least.Thanks for the compliments, much appreciated.
In my opinion once you've read a bit of those books, you have to look at yourself and decide if you want to take the next step and there is no getting away from the fact that maths is the inevitable place to go, so a good book on maths that takes up where you left off previously, but aim for any that deal with Cosmology and its Maths it's a bit of hard work, a lot actually, but the limit of understanding is finally defined by maths. Otherwise just read what I put on here and take some of the words and hit Wiki and sometimes there are references to good books but each time the stumbling block is your own maths.
All the best to you and yours for the New Year.
Keep up the great work, you are very good at writing / explaining very complex subjects so please stick around! Even better, start a Wordpress blog or similar, the talent you have for this is sorely lacking online other than the OPS blog as far as I know... Even by just collating your posts and formatting them for a blog would be appreciated by many more than just myself I'm sure, although I can see the attraction of educating in tidbits on here as you do... I'd better let this chap have his thread back now!
/creeps back to the corner
Firebox7 said:
Matt Strassler's Of Particular Significance blog
Cheers, not seen that before and at first glance looks great. Probably much like yourself in terms of level - after a few by Cox and others my last few books were 'Neutrino'(Close) and a pal bought me 'The Amazing Story of Quantum Mechanics'(Kakalios) recently, which were both quite good and with different backstories/themes.
andy_s said:
Cheers, not seen that before and at first glance looks great.
Probably much like yourself in terms of level - after a few by Cox and others my last few books were 'Neutrino'(Close) and a pal bought me 'The Amazing Story of Quantum Mechanics'(Kakalios) recently, which were both quite good and with different backstories/themes.
Excellent, I'm sure you'll enjoy reading the blog. it's predominantly at the same level as Gene's posts and much like Cox's books in that skipping over the math when it gets complex (which he separates out nicely, often in separate more 'advanced' posts) doesn't seem to hurt too much.Probably much like yourself in terms of level - after a few by Cox and others my last few books were 'Neutrino'(Close) and a pal bought me 'The Amazing Story of Quantum Mechanics'(Kakalios) recently, which were both quite good and with different backstories/themes.
Thanks for the suggestions, I look forward to getting stuck in to them!
GokTweed said:
So the event horizon, is it in terms of visible light not being able to escape but higher energies of photons still can? like gamma rays etc?
Also how does the black hole emit radiation that can escape itself? what is it?
I tend to explain this as an 'escape in the confusion' at the event horizon things are quite busy and some energy is simply not under sufficient sway to fall in irrevocably, they should but they don't.Also how does the black hole emit radiation that can escape itself? what is it?
The coyote in the road-runner cartoons is about as close as I can explain it in laymans terms, you know where the coyote runs off the cliff and only falls when he looks down, well the amount of photons crossing the boundary means that despite the ridiculous odds, this is what really happens, but the photons that manage to do this also turn around and go back over the boundary and with an added impetus to keep away, that is Hawking radiation in the most readily accessible available to me explanation.
GokTweed said:
So the event horizon, is it in terms of visible light not being able to escape but higher energies of photons still can? like gamma rays etc?
Also how does the black hole emit radiation that can escape itself? what is it?
Nothing can escape once it has crossed the event horizon, doesn't matter if it is a higher energy photon. Once passed the event horizon the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light.Also how does the black hole emit radiation that can escape itself? what is it?
Someone else can perhaps explain Hawking radiation. I would just be cutting & pasting from wikipedia.
For the most part it will be boring, the odd bit of debris might whizz by, but unless one is sucking hard on a nearby mass nothing much happens and even then its quite dull, the only fun would be to have a light beam but after a few minutes that would pall too.
The intriguing thing about the whole object is that if you average out the density of all the material in the average (most common sized) black hole including its star it is about as dense as milk and the bigger they are the less dense they are overall.
The Cosmos throws the odd Bosanquet now and then.
The intriguing thing about the whole object is that if you average out the density of all the material in the average (most common sized) black hole including its star it is about as dense as milk and the bigger they are the less dense they are overall.
The Cosmos throws the odd Bosanquet now and then.
Gene Vincent said:
For the most part it will be boring, the odd bit of debris might whizz by, but unless one is sucking hard on a nearby mass nothing much happens and even then its quite dull, the only fun would be to have a light beam but after a few minutes that would pall too.
The intriguing thing about the whole object is that if you average out the density of all the material in the average (most common sized) black hole including its star it is about as dense as milk and the bigger they are the less dense they are overall.
The Cosmos throws the odd Bosanquet now and then.
That makes sense because practically all of the density will be located in a tiny spot right? and you're judging the size by its event horison?The intriguing thing about the whole object is that if you average out the density of all the material in the average (most common sized) black hole including its star it is about as dense as milk and the bigger they are the less dense they are overall.
The Cosmos throws the odd Bosanquet now and then.
Yep and yep.
Much more exciting are Magnetars, they are truly wild beasts.
Our present quiet Sun was most likely brought about more fiercely by one exploding 50,000 years ago as the shockwave hit it 9 years ago disrupting its magnetic core enough to make it calm down.
It is odd to think that a star 50,000 light years away may well cause us to have bad weather and genuine climate change, but the evidence is strong as the last big Magnetar event to hit our little planet went supernova almost exactly at the time the Maunder minimum came about... we shall see how damage the 2004 explosion remnant did over the next 30 or 40 years as the Sun attempts to reset itself.
Magnetars are the scariest thing in the Cosmos in my opinion.
Much more exciting are Magnetars, they are truly wild beasts.
Our present quiet Sun was most likely brought about more fiercely by one exploding 50,000 years ago as the shockwave hit it 9 years ago disrupting its magnetic core enough to make it calm down.
It is odd to think that a star 50,000 light years away may well cause us to have bad weather and genuine climate change, but the evidence is strong as the last big Magnetar event to hit our little planet went supernova almost exactly at the time the Maunder minimum came about... we shall see how damage the 2004 explosion remnant did over the next 30 or 40 years as the Sun attempts to reset itself.
Magnetars are the scariest thing in the Cosmos in my opinion.
Gene Vincent said:
Yep and yep.
Much more exciting are Magnetars, they are truly wild beasts.
Our present quiet Sun was most likely brought about more fiercely by one exploding 50,000 years ago as the shockwave hit it 9 years ago disrupting its magnetic core enough to make it calm down.
It is odd to think that a star 50,000 light years away may well cause us to have bad weather and genuine climate change, but the evidence is strong as the last big Magnetar event to hit our little planet went supernova almost exactly at the time the Maunder minimum came about... we shall see how damage the 2004 explosion remnant did over the next 30 or 40 years as the Sun attempts to reset itself.
Magnetars are the scariest thing in the Cosmos in my opinion.
Gene.....what the merry fMuch more exciting are Magnetars, they are truly wild beasts.
Our present quiet Sun was most likely brought about more fiercely by one exploding 50,000 years ago as the shockwave hit it 9 years ago disrupting its magnetic core enough to make it calm down.
It is odd to think that a star 50,000 light years away may well cause us to have bad weather and genuine climate change, but the evidence is strong as the last big Magnetar event to hit our little planet went supernova almost exactly at the time the Maunder minimum came about... we shall see how damage the 2004 explosion remnant did over the next 30 or 40 years as the Sun attempts to reset itself.
Magnetars are the scariest thing in the Cosmos in my opinion.
k is a magnetar? Our sun was hit by the shockwave 9 years ago? did we feel it? was our magnetic field messed around? Gene Vincent said:
GokTweed said:
So the event horizon, is it in terms of visible light not being able to escape but higher energies of photons still can? like gamma rays etc?
Also how does the black hole emit radiation that can escape itself? what is it?
I tend to explain this as an 'escape in the confusion' at the event horizon things are quite busy and some energy is simply not under sufficient sway to fall in irrevocably, they should but they don't.Also how does the black hole emit radiation that can escape itself? what is it?
The coyote in the road-runner cartoons is about as close as I can explain it in laymans terms, you know where the coyote runs off the cliff and only falls when he looks down, well the amount of photons crossing the boundary means that despite the ridiculous odds, this is what really happens, but the photons that manage to do this also turn around and go back over the boundary and with an added impetus to keep away, that is Hawking radiation in the most readily accessible available to me explanation.
There's more to this Black Hole thingamy than we know, I'd like to be about when they work it out.
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
Yep and yep.
Much more exciting are Magnetars, they are truly wild beasts.
Our present quiet Sun was most likely brought about more fiercely by one exploding 50,000 years ago as the shockwave hit it 9 years ago disrupting its magnetic core enough to make it calm down.
It is odd to think that a star 50,000 light years away may well cause us to have bad weather and genuine climate change, but the evidence is strong as the last big Magnetar event to hit our little planet went supernova almost exactly at the time the Maunder minimum came about... we shall see how damage the 2004 explosion remnant did over the next 30 or 40 years as the Sun attempts to reset itself.
Magnetars are the scariest thing in the Cosmos in my opinion.
Gene.....what the merry fMuch more exciting are Magnetars, they are truly wild beasts.
Our present quiet Sun was most likely brought about more fiercely by one exploding 50,000 years ago as the shockwave hit it 9 years ago disrupting its magnetic core enough to make it calm down.
It is odd to think that a star 50,000 light years away may well cause us to have bad weather and genuine climate change, but the evidence is strong as the last big Magnetar event to hit our little planet went supernova almost exactly at the time the Maunder minimum came about... we shall see how damage the 2004 explosion remnant did over the next 30 or 40 years as the Sun attempts to reset itself.
Magnetars are the scariest thing in the Cosmos in my opinion.
k is a magnetar? Our sun was hit by the shockwave 9 years ago? did we feel it? was our magnetic field messed around? Yep, our star took a hit, we felt it a bit but we have an atmosphere and we are a very weak attractor, the shockwave concentrated on the the big attractor in our solar system, our Sun with its huge magnetic system and effected its internal working, stars effect stars as they act as primary attractors.
Gene Vincent said:
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
Yep and yep.
Much more exciting are Magnetars, they are truly wild beasts.
Our present quiet Sun was most likely brought about more fiercely by one exploding 50,000 years ago as the shockwave hit it 9 years ago disrupting its magnetic core enough to make it calm down.
It is odd to think that a star 50,000 light years away may well cause us to have bad weather and genuine climate change, but the evidence is strong as the last big Magnetar event to hit our little planet went supernova almost exactly at the time the Maunder minimum came about... we shall see how damage the 2004 explosion remnant did over the next 30 or 40 years as the Sun attempts to reset itself.
Magnetars are the scariest thing in the Cosmos in my opinion.
Gene.....what the merry fMuch more exciting are Magnetars, they are truly wild beasts.
Our present quiet Sun was most likely brought about more fiercely by one exploding 50,000 years ago as the shockwave hit it 9 years ago disrupting its magnetic core enough to make it calm down.
It is odd to think that a star 50,000 light years away may well cause us to have bad weather and genuine climate change, but the evidence is strong as the last big Magnetar event to hit our little planet went supernova almost exactly at the time the Maunder minimum came about... we shall see how damage the 2004 explosion remnant did over the next 30 or 40 years as the Sun attempts to reset itself.
Magnetars are the scariest thing in the Cosmos in my opinion.
k is a magnetar? Our sun was hit by the shockwave 9 years ago? did we feel it? was our magnetic field messed around? Yep, our star took a hit, we felt it a bit but we have an atmosphere and we are a very weak attractor, the shockwave concentrated on the the big attractor in our solar system, our Sun with its huge magnetic system and effected its internal working, stars effect stars as they act as primary attractors.
The pulse damaged a few satellites and took one out completely. Not bad really considering the blast travelled 50,000 light years!
Our magnetic field and core are very weak and is not very easy to affect thanks to the atmosphere but ironically more thankfully to our star which protects our magnetic field but takes the majority of the hit for us.
It doesn't change sunspot activity directly, it hits the core of the main core reaction, likely quelling it marginally or more accurately redistributing the field of reaction and that is known mathematically to lower the number of sunspots, so the sun diminishes marginally in its output, it is a tiny amount, but it doesn't much at all to effect our climate, but a Magnetar pulse is more than enough. We know that the Magnetar 20,000ly away pulsed our way in around AD1625 (-/+ 5years) and that the Sun again had to re-arrange itself and it takes 50 to 60 years.
Every 4/500 years our sun gets a hit from a distant Magnetar, thankfully we don't have one 'locally', if we had I doubt that we would be here.
The reversal of our poles is likely to be the result of a big hit and not a matter of self-switching.
Our magnetic field and core are very weak and is not very easy to affect thanks to the atmosphere but ironically more thankfully to our star which protects our magnetic field but takes the majority of the hit for us.
It doesn't change sunspot activity directly, it hits the core of the main core reaction, likely quelling it marginally or more accurately redistributing the field of reaction and that is known mathematically to lower the number of sunspots, so the sun diminishes marginally in its output, it is a tiny amount, but it doesn't much at all to effect our climate, but a Magnetar pulse is more than enough. We know that the Magnetar 20,000ly away pulsed our way in around AD1625 (-/+ 5years) and that the Sun again had to re-arrange itself and it takes 50 to 60 years.
Every 4/500 years our sun gets a hit from a distant Magnetar, thankfully we don't have one 'locally', if we had I doubt that we would be here.
The reversal of our poles is likely to be the result of a big hit and not a matter of self-switching.
Gene Vincent said:
The pulse damaged a few satellites and took one out completely. Not bad really considering the blast travelled 50,000 light years!
Our magnetic field and core are very weak and is not very easy to affect thanks to the atmosphere but ironically more thankfully to our star which protects our magnetic field but takes the majority of the hit for us.
It doesn't change sunspot activity directly, it hits the core of the main core reaction, likely quelling it marginally or more accurately redistributing the field of reaction and that is known mathematically to lower the number of sunspots, so the sun diminishes marginally in its output, it is a tiny amount, but it doesn't much at all to effect our climate, but a Magnetar pulse is more than enough. We know that the Magnetar 20,000ly away pulsed our way in around AD1625 (-/+ 5years) and that the Sun again had to re-arrange itself and it takes 50 to 60 years.
Every 4/500 years our sun gets a hit from a distant Magnetar, thankfully we don't have one 'locally', if we had I doubt that we would be here.
The reversal of our poles is likely to be the result of a big hit and not a matter of self-switching.
Astronomy is brilliant, its all unbelievably large numbers, distances and forces its awe inpspiring. Our magnetic field and core are very weak and is not very easy to affect thanks to the atmosphere but ironically more thankfully to our star which protects our magnetic field but takes the majority of the hit for us.
It doesn't change sunspot activity directly, it hits the core of the main core reaction, likely quelling it marginally or more accurately redistributing the field of reaction and that is known mathematically to lower the number of sunspots, so the sun diminishes marginally in its output, it is a tiny amount, but it doesn't much at all to effect our climate, but a Magnetar pulse is more than enough. We know that the Magnetar 20,000ly away pulsed our way in around AD1625 (-/+ 5years) and that the Sun again had to re-arrange itself and it takes 50 to 60 years.
Every 4/500 years our sun gets a hit from a distant Magnetar, thankfully we don't have one 'locally', if we had I doubt that we would be here.
The reversal of our poles is likely to be the result of a big hit and not a matter of self-switching.
So does it make the sun less stable or more so?
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
The pulse damaged a few satellites and took one out completely. Not bad really considering the blast travelled 50,000 light years!
Our magnetic field and core are very weak and is not very easy to affect thanks to the atmosphere but ironically more thankfully to our star which protects our magnetic field but takes the majority of the hit for us.
It doesn't change sunspot activity directly, it hits the core of the main core reaction, likely quelling it marginally or more accurately redistributing the field of reaction and that is known mathematically to lower the number of sunspots, so the sun diminishes marginally in its output, it is a tiny amount, but it doesn't much at all to effect our climate, but a Magnetar pulse is more than enough. We know that the Magnetar 20,000ly away pulsed our way in around AD1625 (-/+ 5years) and that the Sun again had to re-arrange itself and it takes 50 to 60 years.
Every 4/500 years our sun gets a hit from a distant Magnetar, thankfully we don't have one 'locally', if we had I doubt that we would be here.
The reversal of our poles is likely to be the result of a big hit and not a matter of self-switching.
Astronomy is brilliant, its all unbelievably large numbers, distances and forces its awe inpspiring. Our magnetic field and core are very weak and is not very easy to affect thanks to the atmosphere but ironically more thankfully to our star which protects our magnetic field but takes the majority of the hit for us.
It doesn't change sunspot activity directly, it hits the core of the main core reaction, likely quelling it marginally or more accurately redistributing the field of reaction and that is known mathematically to lower the number of sunspots, so the sun diminishes marginally in its output, it is a tiny amount, but it doesn't much at all to effect our climate, but a Magnetar pulse is more than enough. We know that the Magnetar 20,000ly away pulsed our way in around AD1625 (-/+ 5years) and that the Sun again had to re-arrange itself and it takes 50 to 60 years.
Every 4/500 years our sun gets a hit from a distant Magnetar, thankfully we don't have one 'locally', if we had I doubt that we would be here.
The reversal of our poles is likely to be the result of a big hit and not a matter of self-switching.
So does it make the sun less stable or more so?
Our wonderful sun is even more stable than our little planet and the reaction within unstoppable, but the reaction is also controlled by its own magnetic field that lies within, ensuring the reactions flow outward smoothly, that is what was disrupted marginally.
Gene Vincent said:
Our Solar system is immensely robust, so probably the worst effect a Magnetar can manage is switching our poles and the subsequent seriously cooler planet, but entirely survivable if not by many, but not a wipe out scenario at all.
Our wonderful sun is even more stable than our little planet and the reaction within unstoppable, but the reaction is also controlled by its own magnetic field that lies within, ensuring the reactions flow outward smoothly, that is what was disrupted marginally.
Why does switching our poles make the planet cooler?Our wonderful sun is even more stable than our little planet and the reaction within unstoppable, but the reaction is also controlled by its own magnetic field that lies within, ensuring the reactions flow outward smoothly, that is what was disrupted marginally.
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
Our Solar system is immensely robust, so probably the worst effect a Magnetar can manage is switching our poles and the subsequent seriously cooler planet, but entirely survivable if not by many, but not a wipe out scenario at all.
Our wonderful sun is even more stable than our little planet and the reaction within unstoppable, but the reaction is also controlled by its own magnetic field that lies within, ensuring the reactions flow outward smoothly, that is what was disrupted marginally.
Why does switching our poles make the planet cooler?Our wonderful sun is even more stable than our little planet and the reaction within unstoppable, but the reaction is also controlled by its own magnetic field that lies within, ensuring the reactions flow outward smoothly, that is what was disrupted marginally.
Gene Vincent said:
GokTweed said:
Gene Vincent said:
Our Solar system is immensely robust, so probably the worst effect a Magnetar can manage is switching our poles and the subsequent seriously cooler planet, but entirely survivable if not by many, but not a wipe out scenario at all.
Our wonderful sun is even more stable than our little planet and the reaction within unstoppable, but the reaction is also controlled by its own magnetic field that lies within, ensuring the reactions flow outward smoothly, that is what was disrupted marginally.
Why does switching our poles make the planet cooler?Our wonderful sun is even more stable than our little planet and the reaction within unstoppable, but the reaction is also controlled by its own magnetic field that lies within, ensuring the reactions flow outward smoothly, that is what was disrupted marginally.
So what is a magnetar exactly? what are they made of and how did they come to exist? i know bits about neutron stars, pulsars and all that but never heard of a magnetar until today!
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