Black Holes are not actually "holes".

[Gene Vincent]

This is good, it is far from comprehensive as it is a quickly developing line of research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetar

[GokTweed]

Gene Vincent said:

This is good, it is far from comprehensive as it is a quickly developing line of research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetar

Thanks for that

It says a thimble full of magnetar material would weigh over 100 million tons. It's numbers like that that i find incredible, it just goes to show how much space there is in atoms and how much you can close it down.

[Slink]

havnt read the whole thread because I have stuff to do, but, as a black hole is a dead star that has collapsed on itself(I think) and it created a gravity well so fierce that even light cannot escape.

so, will the black dead crushed star, ever do anything else other than be a gravity well.

like a live star turns into a red giant then white dwarf, then a black hole (I think Ive got that the right way round)

will it then have a fifth state?


perhaps the planet thats made up of a giant diamond was a black hole??

Edited by Slink on Wednesday 16th January 12:24

[GokTweed]

Why are black holes moving through space?

[Gene Vincent]

GokTweed said:

Gene Vincent said:

This is good, it is far from comprehensive as it is a quickly developing line of research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetar

Thanks for that

It says a thimble full of magnetar material would weigh over 100 million tons. It's numbers like that that i find incredible, it just goes to show how much space there is in atoms and how much you can close it down.

That's lightweight stuff!

At the very centre of a Black Hole Star is a singularity and that is less than a Schwarzchild diameter, ie infinitely small, and that is infinitely dense.

Just a few microns above this the density is sufficient that if I started typing the noughts now for that thimble full it would take me centuries to type the final zero.

There is a school of though that follows the idea that rather than just compressing the atoms further and further a point is reached when they are shredded, this accommodates the zero point needed for the infinitely small point in the Theory of Relativity, because the electrons etc are point particles themselves and only have any size by having a sphere of influence, remove the interaction of these spheres of influence and all you have left is multiple points in space that are dimensionless, it very neatly accommodates all the right parts and is my own favoured singularity theory. But it is not certain.

[Gene Vincent]

GokTweed said:

Why are black holes moving through space?

Gravity, they are themselves an attractor and as such will interact and move.

[ewenm]

GokTweed said:

Why are black holes moving through space?

Beacuse they are still stars.

[WCZ]

Gene Vincent said:

At the very centre of a Black Hole Star is a singularity and that is less than a Schwarzchild diameter, ie infinitely small, and that is infinitely dense.

what would happen if you swallowed it? presumably it's small enough to fit in your mouth if it's infinitely small

[Gene Vincent]

Slink said:

...so, will the black dead crushed star, ever do anything else other than be a gravity well.

The theory is as they expand they become less all encompassing and will reach a size (really huge to us, but still minute to the Visible Cosmos) where they fizzle out, they become emitters but still Black Hole Stars, I can't readily explain that because it is quite confounding to the mind, but the maths head that way and unless we are on an entirely wrong track, and we aren't, a BHS also dies... again.

[MiseryStreak]

GokTweed said:

Thanks for that

It says a thimble full of magnetar material would weigh over 100 million tons. It's numbers like that that i find incredible, it just goes to show how much space there is in atoms and how much you can close it down.

Indeed, we worked out in a GCSE science lesson that a 200ml cup of protons would weigh 200 million tonnes (2 x 10^10kg). I always found that fascinating, immediately demonstrating just how much of matter, well, isn't matter. But then just like music, matter is defined as much by the silence as the sounds.

I didn't realise at the time just how ridiculous the hypothetical experiment was though, the electrostatic repulsion of 10^37 protons in that volume, not to mention what the cup and whatever it was 'supported' on would have to be made of. Missing the point though.

[MiseryStreak]

WCZ said:

what would happen if you swallowed it? presumably it's small enough to fit in your mouth if it's infinitely small

There would be no swallowing it, it would have swallowed you long beforehand.

[Slink]

Gene Vincent said:

Slink said:

...so, will the black dead crushed star, ever do anything else other than be a gravity well.

The theory is as they expand they become less all encompassing and will reach a size (really huge to us, but still minute to the Visible Cosmos) where they fizzle out, they become emitters but still Black Hole Stars, I can't readily explain that because it is quite confounding to the mind, but the maths head that way and unless we are on an entirely wrong track, and we aren't, a BHS also dies... again.

oh go on, try an explain it, I love these kind of threads, and your posts are always welcome.

im guessing the still stay as black hole stars, as in, they are stars that have collapsed after using all there fuel, and still have huge gravity but not the event horizon where light gets sucked in? am I close?

[GokTweed]

Gene Vincent said:

GokTweed said:

Why are black holes moving through space?

Gravity, they are themselves an attractor and as such will interact and move.

But with the sheer amount of pull they have why don't they stay pretty much where they are and other stuff move towards them? (relatively speaking). What is massive enough to make them move about at a decent speed?

[Gene Vincent]

GokTweed said:

Gene Vincent said:

GokTweed said:

Why are black holes moving through space?

Gravity, they are themselves an attractor and as such will interact and move.

But with the sheer amount of pull they have why don't they stay pretty much where they are and other stuff move towards them? (relatively speaking). What is massive enough to make them move about at a decent speed?

No, they are in comparison to the rest of a Cosmos they form part of, their power is almost nothing.

[Gene Vincent]

In fact compared to their local group of Galaxies their power is vanishingly small, but some galaxies (possibly most) have a pair of them and they do provide a focus for rotation, but either way they will be spun around a local groups gravitational centre, often at giddying speeds.

Our own Galaxy (Milky Way) is travelling around its centre at about 3 million miles per hour, in fact as you sit at your computer reading this, you're speeding, the 70 limit has been left far behind and if the Government ever finds out we're all in trouble, imagine having to bring the average politician 'up to speed' (sic) regarding relativity, it'll be like discussing the finer points of Shakespeares iambic discourses with a chimpanzeee... that died a week ago.

[GokTweed]

Gene Vincent said:

In fact compared to their local group of Galaxies their power is vanishingly small, but some galaxies (possibly most) have a pair of them and they do provide a focus for rotation, but either way they will be spun around a local groups gravitational centre, often at giddying speeds.

Our own Galaxy (Milky Way) is travelling around its centre at about 3 million miles per hour, in fact as you sit at your computer reading this, you're speeding, the 70 limit has been left far behind and if the Government ever finds out we're all in trouble, imagine having to bring the average politician 'up to speed' (sic) regarding relativity, it'll be like discussing the finer points of Shakespeares iambic discourses with a chimpanzeee... that died a week ago.

So what's causing them to move throughout the cosmos? what is a lone black holw interacting with to make it move about? And as for the ones at the centre of the galaxy they must have a fair amont of graivational pull to form a galazy 100mioooion light years across or whatever?

Or is that down to one star being attracted to the next one down the line etc with the black holes at the centre only keeping a 'true hold' of the ones nearby?

[Gene Vincent]

They formed from an ordinary (although very large) star collapsing in an already rotating galaxy, they are sometimes at the centre because the centre is the oldest bit of a galaxy, but they don't always form there.

There are singletons but they are rare and still move about a centre of a group or groups of galaxies.

The galaxy groups also move around an ever changing filament which also has a centre of rotation.

Gravity makes the whole thing move by dint of Angular Momentum

[GokTweed]

Gene Vincent said:

They formed from an ordinary (although very large) star collapsing in an already rotating galaxy, they are sometimes at the centre because the centre is the oldest bit of a galaxy, but they don't always form there.

There are singletons but they are rare and still move about a centre of a group or groups of galaxies.

The galaxy groups also move around an ever changing filament which also has a centre of rotation.

Ahhh okay.

So groups of galaxies move around something as well? is that their collective centre of gravity or something?
and what is a filament?

ETA i hope you werent planning on getting any work done today with me asking all of these questions! but it does provide a bloody interesting break away from revising pathology.

[Gene Vincent]

GokTweed said:

Gene Vincent said:

They formed from an ordinary (although very large) star collapsing in an already rotating galaxy, they are sometimes at the centre because the centre is the oldest bit of a galaxy, but they don't always form there.

There are singletons but they are rare and still move about a centre of a group or groups of galaxies.

The galaxy groups also move around an ever changing filament which also has a centre of rotation.

Ahhh okay.

So groups of galaxies move around something as well? is that their collective centre of gravity or something?
and what is a filament?

Have you seen a plasma bulb?, they have thin tendrils that spread out, well filaments are thin (relatively) lines in the vastness of space that contain all the visible Cosmos, these strands contain thousand to billions of Galaxies like our own Milky Way.

http://image.dhgate.com/albu_238122788_00/1.0x0.jp...

[Gene Vincent]

GokTweed said:

ETA i hope you werent planning on getting any work done today with me asking all of these questions! but it does provide a bloody interesting break away from revising pathology.

Make the lost of it, at 4 I have a speaking engagement so won't be back on 'til tomorrow or very late tonight after they've fed me.