Car wonโ€™t start - battery fine.

Car wonโ€™t start - battery fine.

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MitchT

Original Poster:

13,725 posts

176 months

Monday 14th June
quotequote all
ian332isport said:
I’m not convinced you’re hearing the EWS relay clicking. There’s loads of things that power up when you turn the ignition on. There should be a good ten second delay before the EWS relay clicks back out when the ignition goes off.

Your best bet is to remove the glovebox and locate the EWS module. It’s a very obvious click when you’re close to it. You may even feel it if you have it in your hand. The EWS module is about the size of a packet of cigarettes and has one large connector on the end. It will say EWS on it, so easy to identify.
Something clicks behind the glovebox 7 seconds after turning the key from position 2 to position 1. It's quite a dull and muted click though. I can't say I've ever heard a particularly noticeable click in the past - the noises I hear now are the same as I've ever heard.

As an aside, though, if it is the EWS that's at fault, what's the solution? New one I guess, but will it need to be paired with the key?

On the subject of the key - I'm using the second key as the casing on the main one broke apart some years ago when I was using it to unlock the car and the lock was very stiff. I've been meaning to replace it since but not got round to it as it's a main dealer job and there isn't one near me.


phumy said:
To be sure its not the battery, get it out and charge it over night. Then reconnect and try starting again

I had a ctek on my Aston since last September, went to start it 2 weeks ago, battery was flat as a pancake. I bought a new battery as the old one was 7 years old, once fitted she fired up instantly.

Charge it up properly with a proper charger.
I don't have access to a proper charger, but it's worth mentioning that I had the sills done and some fuel lines replaced in January. During that process the battery was disconnected and needed recharging. After I got the car home and it had sat for a few days the battery was flat again. The CTEK recharged it perfectly well at that point. Also, as the central locking, windows, radio, fan and dashboard lights are all behaving normally I'm not convinced it's the battery. When my last battery was dying the central locking and windows were sluggish for a while before it reached the point that the engine refused to fire up. The current battery will be five years old at the end of October but, in the past, they've always lasted nine years.

MitchT

Original Poster:

13,725 posts

176 months

Monday 14th June
quotequote all
Just to add...

I'll be passing Halford's tomorrow so I'll buy a Multimeter so I can check the battery, just in case.

The current battery is a "Bosch S4 Car Battery 075". It cost me £69.99 from Euro Car Parts. I've just been on their website to check and the same unit is now £148.99! WTF is that about?

cuprabob

10,014 posts

181 months

Monday 14th June
quotequote all
MitchT said:
Just to add...

I'll be passing Halford's tomorrow so I'll buy a Multimeter so I can check the battery, just in case.

The current battery is a "Bosch S4 Car Battery 075". It cost me £69.99 from Euro Car Parts. I've just been on their website to check and the same unit is now £148.99! WTF is that about?
ECP prices are generated by a random number generator smile

Tayna Batteries are good
https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/bosch/s4004/

paintman

6,536 posts

157 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
MitchT said:
I don't have access to a proper charger, but it's worth mentioning that I had the sills done and some fuel lines replaced in January. During that process the battery was disconnected and needed recharging. After I got the car home and it had sat for a few days the battery was flat again. The CTEK recharged it perfectly well at that point. Also, as the central locking, windows, radio, fan and dashboard lights are all behaving normally I'm not convinced it's the battery. When my last battery was dying the central locking and windows were sluggish for a while before it reached the point that the engine refused to fire up. The current battery will be five years old at the end of October but, in the past, they've always lasted nine years.
Then there's an obvious suspect.
Some batteries you're doing well if you get to the end of their warranty period!

phumy

5,114 posts

204 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
MitchT said:
ian332isport said:
I’m not convinced you’re hearing the EWS relay clicking. There’s loads of things that power up when you turn the ignition on. There should be a good ten second delay before the EWS relay clicks back out when the ignition goes off.

Your best bet is to remove the glovebox and locate the EWS module. It’s a very obvious click when you’re close to it. You may even feel it if you have it in your hand. The EWS module is about the size of a packet of cigarettes and has one large connector on the end. It will say EWS on it, so easy to identify.
Something clicks behind the glovebox 7 seconds after turning the key from position 2 to position 1. It's quite a dull and muted click though. I can't say I've ever heard a particularly noticeable click in the past - the noises I hear now are the same as I've ever heard.

As an aside, though, if it is the EWS that's at fault, what's the solution? New one I guess, but will it need to be paired with the key?

On the subject of the key - I'm using the second key as the casing on the main one broke apart some years ago when I was using it to unlock the car and the lock was very stiff. I've been meaning to replace it since but not got round to it as it's a main dealer job and there isn't one near me.


phumy said:
To be sure its not the battery, get it out and charge it over night. Then reconnect and try starting again

I had a ctek on my Aston since last September, went to start it 2 weeks ago, battery was flat as a pancake. I bought a new battery as the old one was 7 years old, once fitted she fired up instantly.

Charge it up properly with a proper charger.
I don't have access to a proper charger, but it's worth mentioning that I had the sills done and some fuel lines replaced in January. During that process the battery was disconnected and needed recharging. After I got the car home and it had sat for a few days the battery was flat again. The CTEK recharged it perfectly well at that point. Also, as the central locking, windows, radio, fan and dashboard lights are all behaving normally I'm not convinced it's the battery. When my last battery was dying the central locking and windows were sluggish for a while before it reached the point that the engine refused to fire up. The current battery will be five years old at the end of October but, in the past, they've always lasted nine years.
Either, beg, steal, borrow or buy a charger, they really are not expensive. My money is on the battery being fked.

MitchT

Original Poster:

13,725 posts

176 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
paintman said:
Some batteries you're doing well if you get to the end of their warranty period!
I've always had nine years out of my batteries, hence my difficulty in accepting it might be this.

phumy said:
My money is on the battery being fked.
Could be right. I'll go and get that multimeter after work, then I'll know.

My difficulty in believing that it's the battery, thus far, is down to the fact that, previously, when a battery has been flat, the central locking was sluggish or didn't work at all, electric windows were slow and when I tried to start the car the dashboard would light up like a nightclub. These things are behaving perfectly normally this time! Anyway, we'll know this evening!

MitchT

Original Poster:

13,725 posts

176 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
cuprabob said:
ECP prices are generated by a random number generator smile

Tayna Batteries are good
https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/bosch/s4004/
Cheers - if it is the battery I'll order that!

paintman

6,536 posts

157 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
MitchT said:
paintman said:
Some batteries you're doing well if you get to the end of their warranty period!
I've always had nine years out of my batteries, hence my difficulty in accepting it might be this.
You've been very lucky then.

I had two batteries replaced by ECP within the 3 year period of the warranty - as in the first one failed, its replacement did the same and its replacement didn't want to be left out & followed suit. Seemed as soon as we got into cold weather that was it. Just under 3 years for the combined life of the lot - warranty doesn't restart with each replacement.
No issues with the car.
Lion brand & the chap behind the counter cheerfully said they reckoned to get 1/3 of them back during the warranty period.
I'm trade & I don't think he realised it was my own car.
This was a few years ago so perhaps they've improved.

After the third I replaced it with one from Halfords (trade discount means I get cheaper than my usual motor factor, go figure!) & that lasted well beyond the warranty period.

Edited by paintman on Tuesday 15th June 09:24

Penelope Stopit

8,720 posts

76 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
cuprabob said:
ECP prices are generated by a random number generator smile
smile

MitchT

Original Poster:

13,725 posts

176 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
I've owned the car from three months old. It was new in May 1999.
First battery - BMW branded - lasted nine years.
Second battery - Bosch Silver installed by a mechanic - lasted nine years.
Third battery - the current one - Bosch S4 installed by me in late October 2016.

As an aside, when I get the multimeter on the battery later, does the key need to be in the ignition and, if so, in which position? The stuff I've read online suggests I should turn the headlights on for 30 seconds to get rid of any residual charge that might be lurking on an otherwise flat battery, before testing it, but it doesn't say whether to remove the key from the ignition after doing this before testing the battery.

phumy

5,114 posts

204 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
A multimeter won't tell you how much charge you have in it.

Penelope Stopit

8,720 posts

76 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
MitchT said:
As an aside, when I get the multimeter on the battery later, does the key need to be in the ignition and, if so, in which position? The stuff I've read online suggests I should turn the headlights on for 30 seconds to get rid of any residual charge that might be lurking on an otherwise flat battery, before testing it, but it doesn't say whether to remove the key from the ignition after doing this before testing the battery.
A multimeter won't test a battery

Proper battery test is a load test after charging and being left to stand and cool down

The only on-car load test is by measuring the battery voltage during cranking

Unfortunately your car won't crank over

Would be better to have the battery load tested by a technician

Penelope Stopit

8,720 posts

76 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
phumy said:
A multimeter won't tell you how much charge you have in it.
Ooops crossed posts, yours didn't show when I was posting

MitchT

Original Poster:

13,725 posts

176 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
What are the YouTube videos I've seen showing then? They appear to be testing the voltage of the battery to determine if it needs replacing or not.

Penelope Stopit

8,720 posts

76 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
MitchT said:
What are the YouTube videos I've seen showing then? They appear to be testing the voltage of the battery to determine if it needs replacing or not.
The internet is full of dodgy information, anyone can post anything

Have a discharge test (load test) carried out on your battery after charging it and leaving it to cool down overnight

There is something else though

Test what the battery voltage is when attempting to crank the engine over



The thing is......why should you believe me or anyone else here?

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Tuesday 15th June 13:22

MitchT

Original Poster:

13,725 posts

176 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
The Haynes website says what I've already seen elsewhere; Connect a multimeter to the battery terminals and look for 12.6V or more. 12.2V means only half charged and 12V means effectively discharged.

Anyway, I've disconnected to CTEK so we'll see later if the central locking, windows, radio, etc. have degenerated from normal to flat battery behaviour. If so then I'll buy a new battery.

carl_w

6,707 posts

225 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
I have a CTEK and whilst it's a great bit of kit it's sometimes too smart for its own good. I attached it to a deep discharged battery and it said there was no battery connected. I also attached it to a knackered battery and it went to step 7 in about 5 minutes but the engine still wouldn't turn over. In both cases a dumb charger saved the day (in the second case I got a new battery and it's been fine since).

As part of the story I discovered that a Clio immobiliser won't disable after the battery goes flat unless you open the windows first.


How u doing

21,935 posts

150 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
carl_w said:
I have a CTEK and whilst it's a great bit of kit it's sometimes too smart for its own good. I attached it to a deep discharged battery and it said there was no battery connected. I also attached it to a knackered battery and it went to step 7 in about 5 minutes but the engine still wouldn't turn over. In both cases a dumb charger saved the day (in the second case I got a new battery and it's been fine since).

As part of the story I discovered that a Clio immobiliser won't disable after the battery goes flat unless you open the windows first.
I use a ctek, it's great for maintenance.

I have a car I don't use so much in the winter, no idea how old the battery is but at least 9yrs, probably much more.

It's fine.

Not an exhaustive experiment I know but as a conditioner it seems to work.

MitchT

Original Poster:

13,725 posts

176 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
Having disconnected the CTEK at lunchtime I’ve just tested the battery with a multimeter - rightly or wrongly, given the conflicting advice in this thread. Anyway, it read 12.75V which seems OK. I’ll try again tomorrow evening when it’s had more of a chance to drain but, for now, I’m increasingly of the belief that it’s not a battery issue.

ian332isport

83 posts

198 months

Tuesday 15th June
quotequote all
MitchT said:
Something clicks behind the glovebox 7 seconds after turning the key from position 2 to position 1. It's quite a dull and muted click though. I can't say I've ever heard a particularly noticeable click in the past - the noises I hear now are the same as I've ever heard.

As an aside, though, if it is the EWS that's at fault, what's the solution? New one I guess, but will it need to be paired with the key?

On the subject of the key - I'm using the second key as the casing on the main one broke apart some years ago when I was using it to unlock the car and the lock was very stiff. I've been meaning to replace it since but not got round to it as it's a main dealer job and there isn't one near me.
That does sound like the EWS may be working fine.

If the EWS isn't working, it's not necessarily the EWS module that's failed. They're actually very reliable. It could be the ring antenna that's mounted on the end of the ignition barrel. These can and do fail.

Next step is to check for 12v on X20 pin 18 while cranking.