Would you buy a diesel for towing if not what?

Would you buy a diesel for towing if not what?

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Discussion

Stevemr

Original Poster:

540 posts

155 months

Friday 14th April 2017
quotequote all
Planning on buying a Bailey Brindisi caravan later this year weight 1450 kgs laden.

After a lot of thought was also planning on buying a Hyundai santa fe to tow it with.

I will be doing a lot of touring and that seemed to fit the plan very well, lots of power, 4wd, lockable diffs, lots of space, and 5 year warranty. Test drove a couple and really like it as well. In fact looking at build quality compared to my BMW 335, there really did not seem to be a huge difference. So decision made.... BUT.

Now all of a sudden there seems to be a lot of anti diesel sentiment, so the concern is that in 5 years when I want to sell it, its worthless? Or do I need to stop paying attention to sensationalist articles in the press?


Bill

52,472 posts

254 months

Friday 14th April 2017
quotequote all
I suspect it won't hold its value quite as well but that's the sort of vehicle that diesel will always make more sense to most. It's a bit trickier if you actually live in a city though.

Jag_NE

2,949 posts

99 months

Friday 14th April 2017
quotequote all
Stevemr said:
Planning on buying a Bailey Brindisi caravan later this year weight 1450 kgs laden.

After a lot of thought was also planning on buying a Hyundai santa fe to tow it with.

I will be doing a lot of touring and that seemed to fit the plan very well, lots of power, 4wd, lockable diffs, lots of space, and 5 year warranty. Test drove a couple and really like it as well. In fact looking at build quality compared to my BMW 335, there really did not seem to be a huge difference. So decision made.... BUT.

Now all of a sudden there seems to be a lot of anti diesel sentiment, so the concern is that in 5 years when I want to sell it, its worthless? Or do I need to stop paying attention to sensationalist articles in the press?
no - because if anyone could be bothered to read beyond the headlines, if you are buying a Euro6/2016+ model you will be absolutely fine. The hysteria will die down in a few months and everything will go back to normal. there might be some small knocks on older Euro5 and earlier diesels in a few years time when the regulations take effect but i don't think it will be catastrophic and the cars will be at least 4-5 years old by then anyway so will be at a third of their list price anyway.

ALY77

666 posts

209 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
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I've seen a couple of these popping up on touring sites.

www.practicalcaravan.com/reviews/tow-car/31402-mit...

Haven't managed to engage an owner in conversation yet to quiz them as to their take on it as a tow car.

bristolracer

5,527 posts

148 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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Use the 335?

blugnu

1,523 posts

240 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Jag_NE said:
no - because if anyone could be bothered to read beyond the headlines, if you are buying a Euro6/2016+ model you will be absolutely fine. The hysteria will die down in a few months and everything will go back to normal.
Quite right - what's a little asthma, chronic bronchitis, heart disease and cancer compared to better torque? smile

GreatGranny

9,097 posts

225 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
I've towed with both diesel and petrol.

My van is a similar weight to yours and the diesels have been better than the petrols.
The only exception is my V70 2.5 10v was a better towcar then the Avensis diesel.

I have an XC90 presently and it's a fantastic towcar.

Very stable, enough power and auto makes it a doddle to drive.
Downside is it's bloody expensive to run (though insurance is surprisingly cheap, latest quote is £215!).

Santa Fe sounds ideal IMO.

The PHEV is only popular because of the tax advantage for company car drivers.

It has no advantage over the diesel version for towing.

CoolCurly

210 posts

210 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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The PHEV is a terrible option. You can not tow using the batteries, and the fuel tank is so small you will be stopping every 200 miles (if that) to refill.

It was an option for a company car for a few people I know and they never looked at the fuel tank size. (41ltr if your interested - the santa fe is 61ltr).

Whats your budget for the new tow car????

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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blugnu said:
Quite right - what's a little asthma, chronic bronchitis, heart disease and cancer compared to better torque? smile
You don't actually believe that, do you?

blugnu

1,523 posts

240 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
You don't actually believe that, do you?
There is quite a large body of peer reviewed scientific study indicating that diesel emissions pose both acute and chronic threats to human health. I presume you have done your own research indicating otherwise?

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
blugnu said:
There is quite a large body of peer reviewed scientific study indicating that diesel emissions pose both acute and chronic threats to human health. I presume you have done your own research indicating otherwise?
How do you square the fact that although apparently being threatened by chronic and acute conditions, people in London and Europe are living longer and healthier than ever? Life expectancy has never been greater, Some research suggests mankind is approaching the limits of human longevity. People living in central London can vie with the Japanese for the greatest life expectancy. Average life expectancy in the US, which doesn't use diesel cars, is distinctly lower than Europe's. If you are aged 65 now, the longest life expectancy for men and women in the UK are in two London boroughs respectively, and the shortest is in Scotland.

I would suggest that a far, far more acute condition is caused by people's income, which currently can lead to a 25(!) year gap in life expectancy just in London alone, despite everyone breathing the same air (when outside, anyway). Furthermore "separate analysis by The Equality Trust discovered that the gap in life expectancy for those in different UK local authority areas has increased 41 per cent for men and 73 per cent for women in the last 20 years."

If we have a health problem (and we are the second worst country in Europe for air quality according to what I've seen), I personally don't think it's being caused by using the same cars as Europe (to a lesser degree).


300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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blugnu said:
heebeegeetee said:
You don't actually believe that, do you?
There is quite a large body of peer reviewed scientific study indicating that diesel emissions pose both acute and chronic threats to human health. I presume you have done your own research indicating otherwise?
There is evidence for almost anything if you want to look for it. Doesn't mean it's a sensible view point however.

blugnu

1,523 posts

240 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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300bhp/ton said:
There is evidence for almost anything if you want to look for it.
No there isn't.

blugnu

1,523 posts

240 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
How do you square the fact that although apparently being threatened by chronic and acute conditions, people in London and Europe are living longer and healthier than ever?
As you point out, air pollution is not the sole determinant of life expectancy, and nor is it the only thing that kills people.

I think that life expectancy increasing despite the measurable change in air quality is a credit to medical research, and the fact that we are doing better in this regard than the US is a fabulous endorsement for our NHS model as opposed to the free market model.

Do you have any research that shows that that diesel cars don't have emissions that are dangerous to human health over and above the climate changing and poisonous emissions from petrol engines?

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
blugnu said:
No there isn't.
Sure there, give it a go why don't you.

But the reality stands, you fussing over the op wanting a diesel for towing is NOT going to change the world. Not when heavy industry, shipping, railways, hauling and most forms of public transport all use diesel engines.

blugnu

1,523 posts

240 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Sure there, give it a go why don't you.

But the reality stands, you fussing over the op wanting a diesel for towing is NOT going to change the world. Not when heavy industry, shipping, railways, hauling and most forms of public transport all use diesel engines.
If you think there is evidence for almost anything if one looks for it, you are clearly confusing evidence with something else.

The world changes in small steps - the OP has a 335. I'm not quite sure why another vehicle is needed at all - the proposed caravan has a laden weight of about 80% of the 335.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
blugnu said:
If you think there is evidence for almost anything if one looks for it, you are clearly confusing evidence with something else.
Meaning there is always a counter argument. Indeed someone has already provided one example for you.

It's not a question with a boolean answer. So it boils down to lots of research, reports, facts, opinions, hunches, assumptions and many other things. All bundled up as "evidence".

You have one view, other people will have other views.


If you'd like some 'examples', why not try answering these questions:

1. Do aliens exist?
2. Is there really such a things as Global Warming?
3. Is sasquatch real?

tristancliffe

357 posts

212 months

Monday 24th April 2017
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Life expectancy increased as smoking became more popular. Therefore smoking = good, right?

blugnu

1,523 posts

240 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Meaning there is always a counter argument. Indeed someone has already provided one example for you.

It's not a question with a boolean answer. So it boils down to lots of research, reports, facts, opinions, hunches, assumptions and many other things. All bundled up as "evidence".

You have one view, other people will have other views.


If you'd like some 'examples', why not try answering these questions:

1. Do aliens exist?
2. Is there really such a things as Global Warming?
3. Is sasquatch real?
1. You need to define 'alien' - some 'life' has been detected in our galaxy, but it isn't what we'd call 'intelligent' life. Given that space is infinite is seems reasonable to assume that 'intelligent' life must exist elsewhere. Any other conclusion seems to me to be as a result of not understanding what 'infinite' means.

2. Yes, of course there is. All the credible scientific research shows that there is.

3. No. It seems hugely unlikely that a large creature could survive with a population large enough to sustain itself and not leave any physical evidence whatsoever.

The beauty of science though is that evidence can change anything. However, I've seen no evidence to suggest that global warming is some sort of weird hoax by which 'do-gooders' are trying to persuade people to look after our planet and the living things on it for no good reason, nor have I seen any evidence that Bigfoot real.

Just because people believe otherwise doesn't make their views correct. People believe all sorts of nonsense. You must have met some? smile

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
blugnu said:
As you point out, air pollution is not the sole determinant of life expectancy, and nor is it the only thing that kills people.

I think that life expectancy increasing despite the measurable change in air quality
Well, what measurable change in air quality? It's only ever got better. I think you have to go back a very long way, to a time when life expectancy was considerably shorter anyway, to find a time when air quality was better in the past. I mean, I don't know know when you go to in time when people weren't living with open fires indoors, for instance.

I can't now recall where I found this, but, can you find evidence to show that this isn't how air quality has trended?