RE: Shed Of The Week
Discussion
I had one of these and experienced a sudden loss of power when accelerating onto a dual carriageway. It conked so the RAC came to have a look. 'I think this may be the problem,' said the man in blue (it was before orange), holding up the big end cap from one of the pistons. Usefully, it had escaped from the engine block by punching a hole in it.
Rover claimed I hadn't run the car in properly. That's all right, then.
Rover claimed I hadn't run the car in properly. That's all right, then.
I ran a quick 214si with the T series turbo engine in it for a few years. It was a track car, worked very hard and generated 260bhp with 28-lb/ft. Using the shorter geared box from the 820 turbo sport, it lasted very well...
As soon as I got it, I replaced the gasket with a 5 layer metal thing and strengthened head bolts.. After that, it was very, very quick and never let me down. (I also had twin cooling fans on permanently plus a vented bonnet).
I think if they are looked after well, they will last. It is still a very cheap barge with a decent lick of speed. Use it for a year, then replace it. Still cheaper than buying something new - and you then have money for something properly fun and quick....
As soon as I got it, I replaced the gasket with a 5 layer metal thing and strengthened head bolts.. After that, it was very, very quick and never let me down. (I also had twin cooling fans on permanently plus a vented bonnet).
I think if they are looked after well, they will last. It is still a very cheap barge with a decent lick of speed. Use it for a year, then replace it. Still cheaper than buying something new - and you then have money for something properly fun and quick....
Had one of these 4 years ago (got it when I was 19). Terrible to insure, torque steered like a t
t, ate tires, melted the gearbox, ruined the clutch, turbo was nearly dead and i got through 3 sets of warped disks.
Loved every minute!
Blowing away all manner of chav carriages was a joy in my Old Man Wagon. I did put silly wheels on it, dropped the suspension and fitted a monster stereo, though - at 19 the old man image was a little too much.
My most fond memory was driving through Wales with my friend who had just picked up his dads SLK. Lots of fun smoking him off every roundabout and piling down the motorway at stupid speeds.
Great car. I did work out that it was costing me more to run than a house so I got rid of it, drove a van and bought a house – poooo! I do miss it.
t, ate tires, melted the gearbox, ruined the clutch, turbo was nearly dead and i got through 3 sets of warped disks. Loved every minute!
Blowing away all manner of chav carriages was a joy in my Old Man Wagon. I did put silly wheels on it, dropped the suspension and fitted a monster stereo, though - at 19 the old man image was a little too much.
My most fond memory was driving through Wales with my friend who had just picked up his dads SLK. Lots of fun smoking him off every roundabout and piling down the motorway at stupid speeds.
Great car. I did work out that it was costing me more to run than a house so I got rid of it, drove a van and bought a house – poooo! I do miss it.
kaivaksdal said:
I ran a quick 214si with the T series turbo engine in it for a few years. It was a track car, worked very hard and generated 260bhp with 28-lb/ft. Using the shorter geared box from the 820 turbo sport, it lasted very well...
As soon as I got it, I replaced the gasket with a 5 layer metal thing and strengthened head bolts.. After that, it was very, very quick and never let me down. (I also had twin cooling fans on permanently plus a vented bonnet).
I think if they are looked after well, they will last. It is still a very cheap barge with a decent lick of speed. Use it for a year, then replace it. Still cheaper than buying something new - and you then have money for something properly fun and quick....
Hi Kai :waves: Although I have never met you, I have met the infamous Jaky! Sadly no longer with us, but he was a legend in his time and an inspiration to me as a 214 owner back then As soon as I got it, I replaced the gasket with a 5 layer metal thing and strengthened head bolts.. After that, it was very, very quick and never let me down. (I also had twin cooling fans on permanently plus a vented bonnet).
I think if they are looked after well, they will last. It is still a very cheap barge with a decent lick of speed. Use it for a year, then replace it. Still cheaper than buying something new - and you then have money for something properly fun and quick....
There is a lot of rubbish spoken and typed about these cars/engines. Eat head gaskets? Incorrect. Yes they can weep a tiny bit of oil after a few years but a metal triple layer gasket solves this (not a 5 layer as someone said) and on later T16 turbo engines was fitted from the factory. I know of a guy who is nearing 300,000 miles on his Rover 800, it's a NASP but this is still doable with a turbo IMHO. My engine has done about 125,000 - I got it on about 92,000 IIRC and it is producing more power now than it ever has (235bhp / 239lb-ft at last dyno). Nothing internal has been changed or rebuilt.
Gearboxes - yup they are weak but only if you insist on launching it like a twit which will speed up wear on the diff and its bearings. Unfortunately Rover used plastic caged bearings on the PG1 box (used in the NASP and turbo T16, and later on the 1.8 K series) to keep the noise down. Sadly though they don't last that long compared to the steel caged versions, and after many miles or less miles abuseive driving, they will wear and cause the driveshafts to pop out the box, or wose, shear the diff. Steel caged rebuild solves this problem.
If you're after more power, stick a manual boost controller on and you'll see 200lb-ft instead of the standard 174. Standard boost is modulated by the ECU which increases the boost as the revs rise, meaning a very smooth power delivery without the turbo shunt. Feels like a bigger NASP engine which is nice for being nice, but we don't want to be nice
With a boost controller (not a bleed valve, please) you'll be hitting maximum boost (12psi is about as far as you want to go on this engine) at about 2000-2500 rpm instead of about 5000 with the ECU controller. I could go on and bore the tats off you all but I'll stop now
linked to this over from the 205gti forum. Can't believe that guy trying to sell the 205 for 1500 quid. First of it's a left hooker, second it needs about a grand spending on it to bring it upto scratch, third he paid a monkey for it and wants 1000-1500 squid???????
When you look at cars like this one on autotrader with the steering wheel on the proper side
1990 PEUGEOT 205 1.9 GTi 3dr Hatchback
£1,300
Manual, 96,498 miles, Green. One of 300 1.9s to be made with PAS and full leather, as well as e/w, c/l, s/r. Totally standard with a genuine 96k miles with full service history including large file of receipts with all old mots and tax discs it even has the original dealer plates, with only 3 keepers this is a rare example, the car is being sold with no mot or tax please call for more info. £1,300.
Private Seller: Contact number: 07**********
Not mine I must stress which is why I edited the number. The left hooker looks like crazy money. Can't believe your own admin is trying to rip you off.
Anyway warning given that Rover doesn't seem like a bad old smoke if you could get it for a bit less than he's asking. People underestimate what they can achieve and it puts new meaning to the Q in Q-car. Couple of cheap crafty mods and you'll see yourself in the same ballpark as these new gen fancy dan hot hatches. Golf GTi V owners watch out!
When you look at cars like this one on autotrader with the steering wheel on the proper side
1990 PEUGEOT 205 1.9 GTi 3dr Hatchback
£1,300
Manual, 96,498 miles, Green. One of 300 1.9s to be made with PAS and full leather, as well as e/w, c/l, s/r. Totally standard with a genuine 96k miles with full service history including large file of receipts with all old mots and tax discs it even has the original dealer plates, with only 3 keepers this is a rare example, the car is being sold with no mot or tax please call for more info. £1,300.
Private Seller: Contact number: 07**********
Not mine I must stress which is why I edited the number. The left hooker looks like crazy money. Can't believe your own admin is trying to rip you off.
Anyway warning given that Rover doesn't seem like a bad old smoke if you could get it for a bit less than he's asking. People underestimate what they can achieve and it puts new meaning to the Q in Q-car. Couple of cheap crafty mods and you'll see yourself in the same ballpark as these new gen fancy dan hot hatches. Golf GTi V owners watch out!
205lad said:
linked to this over from the 205gti forum. Can't believe that guy trying to sell the 205 for 1500 quid. First of it's a left hooker, second it needs about a grand spending on it to bring it upto scratch, third he paid a monkey for it and wants 1000-1500 squid???????
When you look at cars like this one on autotrader with the steering wheel on the proper side
1990 PEUGEOT 205 1.9 GTi 3dr Hatchback
£1,300
Manual, 96,498 miles, Green. One of 300 1.9s to be made with PAS and full leather, as well as e/w, c/l, s/r. Totally standard with a genuine 96k miles with full service history including large file of receipts with all old mots and tax discs it even has the original dealer plates, with only 3 keepers this is a rare example, the car is being sold with no mot or tax please call for more info. £1,300.
Private Seller: Contact number: 07**********
Not mine I must stress which is why I edited the number. The left hooker looks like crazy money. Can't believe your own admin is trying to rip you off.
Anyway warning given that Rover doesn't seem like a bad old smoke if you could get it for a bit less than he's asking. People underestimate what they can achieve and it puts new meaning to the Q in Q-car. Couple of cheap crafty mods and you'll see yourself in the same ballpark as these new gen fancy dan hot hatches. Golf GTi V owners watch out!
Hi,When you look at cars like this one on autotrader with the steering wheel on the proper side
1990 PEUGEOT 205 1.9 GTi 3dr Hatchback
£1,300
Manual, 96,498 miles, Green. One of 300 1.9s to be made with PAS and full leather, as well as e/w, c/l, s/r. Totally standard with a genuine 96k miles with full service history including large file of receipts with all old mots and tax discs it even has the original dealer plates, with only 3 keepers this is a rare example, the car is being sold with no mot or tax please call for more info. £1,300.
Private Seller: Contact number: 07**********
Not mine I must stress which is why I edited the number. The left hooker looks like crazy money. Can't believe your own admin is trying to rip you off.
Anyway warning given that Rover doesn't seem like a bad old smoke if you could get it for a bit less than he's asking. People underestimate what they can achieve and it puts new meaning to the Q in Q-car. Couple of cheap crafty mods and you'll see yourself in the same ballpark as these new gen fancy dan hot hatches. Golf GTi V owners watch out!
We had lots of offers over 1000 so we thought that was what the car was worth. We are not trying to rip anyone off, this is supposed to be a bit of fun to see if we can make a profit buying and selling sheds and we're not forcing anyone to buy. The car you mentioned for 1300 hasn't got an MOT but you say ours needs a grand on it without actually seeing it. As I say it is supposed to be a light hearted feature for evryone to enjoy...
Best,
Ollie
205lad said:
third he paid a monkey for it and wants 1000-1500 squid???????
I hate that mentality of, "you only paid £500 for it, why are you trying to sell it for over £1000"If you inherit a new car from a dead relative, would you advertise it for "f*ck all" because that's what you paid for it ?
For all we know, the pug's had some money spent on it by the seller. To stop it getting hauled, he might have had to take out on insurance policy on it. I think I saw an "autotrader" advert mentioned....They're not free.
Blimey, whatever you do, never buy a car from a car dealer, they try and make a profit on everything they sell, god forbid.
205lad said:
1990 PEUGEOT 205 1.9 GTi 3dr Hatchback
£1,300
Manual, 96,498 miles, Green. One of 300 1.9s to be made with PAS and full leather, as well as e/w, c/l, s/r. Totally standard with a genuine 96k miles with full service history including large file of receipts with all old mots and tax discs it even has the original dealer plates, with only 3 keepers this is a rare example, the car is being sold with no mot or tax please call for more info. £1,300.
What a bargain £1,300
Manual, 96,498 miles, Green. One of 300 1.9s to be made with PAS and full leather, as well as e/w, c/l, s/r. Totally standard with a genuine 96k miles with full service history including large file of receipts with all old mots and tax discs it even has the original dealer plates, with only 3 keepers this is a rare example, the car is being sold with no mot or tax please call for more info. £1,300.
I see what your saying and its good to here its just a 'bit of fun' but anyone who has over a grand to buy a 205gti would do better to come and look over on some of the forums where you can buy something with the steering wheel on the correct side which doesn't need the rear sus sorting like this hooker which is a dead expensive job in parts alone. Dealer rebuilds are 600 quid including labour!
If you were going to strip the car for track or similar then there are enough cheap cars without sunroofs that need work on them for a lot less than 1500.
The autotrader car not having an MOT hardly matters it would be the basis for an excellent road car restoration as it's rare as rocking horse dung. It was just a quick example of whats out there, tons more on ebay and autotrader at less than silly money.
Tell you what I did inherit an UNO from my gran and when I sold it I asked the going rate considering it needed a bit of work. I didn't shoot for top price for a pristine example and at least grans car had the steering wheel on the right!!!!!
If you were going to strip the car for track or similar then there are enough cheap cars without sunroofs that need work on them for a lot less than 1500.
The autotrader car not having an MOT hardly matters it would be the basis for an excellent road car restoration as it's rare as rocking horse dung. It was just a quick example of whats out there, tons more on ebay and autotrader at less than silly money.
Tell you what I did inherit an UNO from my gran and when I sold it I asked the going rate considering it needed a bit of work. I didn't shoot for top price for a pristine example and at least grans car had the steering wheel on the right!!!!!
Junk. Junk. Junk.
Worthy even of shed status? - doubtful.
Woefully unreliable, fragile......a Rover.
Most are now driven around the West End late at night, full to the brim with faded green fir tree air fresheners in a bid to hide the vomit inducing smell of vomit, with the words "mini-cab?" spat at you out of the window.
This offer can be loosely translated to read "ride in a, bought off a breaker, probably not properly insured, death trap for a ludicrously exaggerated fare whilst you direct the driver where to go?"
I always say yes please and jump in - great fun!
Worthy even of shed status? - doubtful.
Woefully unreliable, fragile......a Rover.
Most are now driven around the West End late at night, full to the brim with faded green fir tree air fresheners in a bid to hide the vomit inducing smell of vomit, with the words "mini-cab?" spat at you out of the window.
This offer can be loosely translated to read "ride in a, bought off a breaker, probably not properly insured, death trap for a ludicrously exaggerated fare whilst you direct the driver where to go?"
I always say yes please and jump in - great fun!
Edited by Richiefly on Wednesday 9th January 12:46
So, what you're actually saying here LeoZwalf is that, apart from the head gasket, gearbox rebuild, boost controller and the aquaducts (i.e. lots of money poured over a car that is not worth lots of money and still a Rover at the end of it) you don't need to fix everything before it's anything approaching a reliable, well built car then? Discuss (tin helmet on, sheltering under desk)
There is a lot of rubbish spoken and typed about these cars/engines. Eat head gaskets? Incorrect. Yes they can weep a tiny bit of oil after a few years but a metal triple layer gasket solves this (not a 5 layer as someone said) and on later T16 turbo engines was fitted from the factory. I know of a guy who is nearing 300,000 miles on his Rover 800, it's a NASP but this is still doable with a turbo IMHO. My engine has done about 125,000 - I got it on about 92,000 IIRC and it is producing more power now than it ever has (235bhp / 239lb-ft at last dyno). Nothing internal has been changed or rebuilt.
Gearboxes - yup they are weak but only if you insist on launching it like a twit which will speed up wear on the diff and its bearings. Unfortunately Rover used plastic caged bearings on the PG1 box (used in the NASP and turbo T16, and later on the 1.8 K series) to keep the noise down. Sadly though they don't last that long compared to the steel caged versions, and after many miles or less miles abuseive driving, they will wear and cause the driveshafts to pop out the box, or wose, shear the diff. Steel caged rebuild solves this problem.
If you're after more power, stick a manual boost controller on and you'll see 200lb-ft instead of the standard 174. Standard boost is modulated by the ECU which increases the boost as the revs rise, meaning a very smooth power delivery without the turbo shunt. Feels like a bigger NASP engine which is nice for being nice, but we don't want to be nice With a boost controller (not a bleed valve, please) you'll be hitting maximum boost (12psi is about as far as you want to go on this engine) at about 2000-2500 rpm instead of about 5000 with the ECU controller.
I could go on and bore the tats off you all but I'll stop now
LeoZwalf said:
kaivaksdal said:
I ran a quick 214si with the T series turbo engine in it for a few years. It was a track car, worked very hard and generated 260bhp with 28-lb/ft. Using the shorter geared box from the 820 turbo sport, it lasted very well...
As soon as I got it, I replaced the gasket with a 5 layer metal thing and strengthened head bolts.. After that, it was very, very quick and never let me down. (I also had twin cooling fans on permanently plus a vented bonnet).
I think if they are looked after well, they will last. It is still a very cheap barge with a decent lick of speed. Use it for a year, then replace it. Still cheaper than buying something new - and you then have money for something properly fun and quick....
Hi Kai :waves: Although I have never met you, I have met the infamous Jaky! Sadly no longer with us, but he was a legend in his time and an inspiration to me as a 214 owner back then As soon as I got it, I replaced the gasket with a 5 layer metal thing and strengthened head bolts.. After that, it was very, very quick and never let me down. (I also had twin cooling fans on permanently plus a vented bonnet).
I think if they are looked after well, they will last. It is still a very cheap barge with a decent lick of speed. Use it for a year, then replace it. Still cheaper than buying something new - and you then have money for something properly fun and quick....
There is a lot of rubbish spoken and typed about these cars/engines. Eat head gaskets? Incorrect. Yes they can weep a tiny bit of oil after a few years but a metal triple layer gasket solves this (not a 5 layer as someone said) and on later T16 turbo engines was fitted from the factory. I know of a guy who is nearing 300,000 miles on his Rover 800, it's a NASP but this is still doable with a turbo IMHO. My engine has done about 125,000 - I got it on about 92,000 IIRC and it is producing more power now than it ever has (235bhp / 239lb-ft at last dyno). Nothing internal has been changed or rebuilt.
Gearboxes - yup they are weak but only if you insist on launching it like a twit which will speed up wear on the diff and its bearings. Unfortunately Rover used plastic caged bearings on the PG1 box (used in the NASP and turbo T16, and later on the 1.8 K series) to keep the noise down. Sadly though they don't last that long compared to the steel caged versions, and after many miles or less miles abuseive driving, they will wear and cause the driveshafts to pop out the box, or wose, shear the diff. Steel caged rebuild solves this problem.
If you're after more power, stick a manual boost controller on and you'll see 200lb-ft instead of the standard 174. Standard boost is modulated by the ECU which increases the boost as the revs rise, meaning a very smooth power delivery without the turbo shunt. Feels like a bigger NASP engine which is nice for being nice, but we don't want to be nice
With a boost controller (not a bleed valve, please) you'll be hitting maximum boost (12psi is about as far as you want to go on this engine) at about 2000-2500 rpm instead of about 5000 with the ECU controller. I could go on and bore the tats off you all but I'll stop now
I think Richie raises a decent point, but at the end of the day it punches well above its weight in the performance department, even after you blow all that money on it.
Actually, giving further thought to this, are these only issues once you start modifying?
Actually, giving further thought to this, are these only issues once you start modifying?
Edited by chrisbr68 on Thursday 10th January 13:17
chrisbr68 said:
I think Richie raises a decent point, but at the end of the day it punches well above its weight in the performance department, even after you blow all that money on it.
Actually, giving further thought to this, are these only issues once you start modifying?
Not really a load of money, gearbox rebuild £250, head Gasket £200, boost controller £60. Don't forget the first two may already have been done or may not need doing.Actually, giving further thought to this, are these only issues once you start modifying?
Edited by chrisbr68 on Thursday 10th January 13:17
Al 450 said:
chrisbr68 said:
I think Richie raises a decent point, but at the end of the day it punches well above its weight in the performance department, even after you blow all that money on it.
Actually, giving further thought to this, are these only issues once you start modifying?
Not really a load of money, gearbox rebuild £250, head Gasket £200, boost controller £60. Don't forget the first two may already have been done or may not need doing.Actually, giving further thought to this, are these only issues once you start modifying?
Edited by chrisbr68 on Thursday 10th January 13:17
I think £60 is quite a lot for a mechanical boost controller too, arent the GBE's about £20 or so?
Hi all,
I've been pointed in this direction by a friend who frequents this site and its forums.
After reading the replies to the feature on the 620ti, I thought I'd just add a few things, and also, some of the far fetched stories and huge innacuracies gave me a good chuckle!
It would appear that on the whole, the feedback for this model was quite positive, and rightly so, it's a good car. Yes, there are better cars, faster, better handling, and accordingly, they cost more, so let's not get caught in that particular trap for starters.
A few random things I'm going to pick on from various threads in absolutely no order, and no naming of names at this stage, but:
There is no such thing as an 820ti
All 620ti models came with a type B TorSen diff.
'Chocolate' pistons as referred to are actually made by AE, though some very early ti models were fitted with Mahle pistons. The AE piston 'issue' is more to do with people leaving the stock intercooler in place and winding up the boost on the Garrett T25 turbo, thus substantially raising boost temps and causing the engine to expire prematurely. You can say that there are plenty of motors out there that will take huge increases in boost on stock components, well this isn't one of them, so no sense in arguing the toss. A more efficient intercooler and larger turbo will allow high boost to be used with factory reliability. A common transplant is the T28. Though allowing more lag, a T3 could also be employed, though the manifold flange needs modification.
These cars did not suffer HGF, but most suffered a very small weeping of oil at the front right of the block to head area (actually the rear right if we're being pedantic), this is caused by the main oil gallery being slightly out of clamping line with the headbolts. It's usually such an insignificant amount that it's not worth bothering about. Changing the headgasket will cure it, but only temporarily. One solution is to insert a snug fitting short length of copper pipe between the gallery ways which pretty much eliminates the problem. It's a pity Rover didn't effect such a cure, but it's all time and money I suppose, short sighted though that view may have been. So to reiterate, a slight oil weep on the front right of the engine IS NOT a sign of HGF.
The window runner problem is something which a lot of 600s seem to get, though the Euro CD Accord also suffers the exact same issue. The best way to avoid this problem is to keep the rubber channels well lubed with silicone enriched spray (say, 'back to black'), this is a practice which should be carried out on all cars though really.
Many complaints of handling not being the best, news flash time, it's not a hot hatch, it's a big comfy cruiser with motorway work in mind. That said, when fitted with decent tyres, they don't handle too badly at all, at worst, you could describe them as safe and predictable. Perfect then, as a daily driver, which is what this car is intended to be.
This also leads me onto the myth of these cars chewing through tyres in a matter of months, my own ti had a full set of fresh Goodyear NCT5s fitted nearly two and a half years ago, and while the fronts are more worn (you don't say), they still have at least 3 to 4mm of tread left.
What is this colossal torque steer that I hear of on here? All high powered FWD cars will suffer to a degree with torque steer to a degree, but it has to be said it's virtually undetectable in this car, due to the diff and a well sorted front suspension setup. Severe torque steer with one of these cars points to severely worn suspension components (intergalactic mileage) or badly repair crash damage.
Gearboxes, as already covered, can be a weak point, but again, if the car is thrashed all the time, this should come as no surprise. Gearboxes should always be filled to level with the correct MTF94 transmission oil. And as already said, gearboxes can be rebuilt with steel caged bearings. If you fancy going DIY, the bearings can be had for very little from various suppliers or even ebay, and while time consuming, it isn't a hard job to complete.
By the fact that someone suggested the 623 to be a more reliable car really confirms for me the amount of ignorance about the Rover powered models. The Honda H23A engine was a strong performer with decent economy for its size, with a good spread of power and torque, but unfortunately, it had a penchant for cracking its cylinder head, and good replacements are all but impossible to find, I know as it took hell's delight to try and find one for a customer a few years back. The SOHC Honda engines though are even if a little lack-lustre, good solid, reliable performers. Rover L series diesel is a bullet proof unit capable of interstellar mileage, with excellent economy. Let's not forget Honda used the L series for the Euro CD Accord of the same era.
Brakes, it's funny, but a lot of people seem to have this theory that they're particularly effective. Just because they're not over-servoed doesn't make them bad. With proper maintenance and fitment of decent quality OE specification pads, on the road they work just fine. Rear callipers can seize, causing poor parking brake performance. In most cases, a thorough strip, clean and regrease will bring them back to life.
If driven sensibly, these cars will return between 26 to 30 mpg, depending on traffic conditions and outside temperatures, and state of repair.
In all, because of the low value of these cars, people buy them cheaply, thrash them, abuse them, negate to maintain and service them, and then someone else buys the car, it goes wrong and that gives rise to the 'worst car I ever bought', or most unreliable car ever' type comments.
Looking on ebay, a lot have fallen into the the hands of boyracers who have turned a few examples into 'The Fast and the Furious' rejects, fitment of cheap bleed valves and innacurate boost gauges etc, call me Mr Obvious, but winding the boost up and thrashing the car around will have a negative effect on just about every aspect of the vehicle, no?
Low worth and therefore high neglect has, I think in general been something which has afflicted Rovers for years, again, due to their relatively low value and 'throw away' status.
I bought mine two and a half years ago, it had lots of history with it, and had been an ex lease car for 'Leisureways', so the services had always been kept on top of. Just about every receipt is present, and all work documented. The turbo, gearbox, headgasket etc are all original, it's now knocking on the door of 120,000 and so far so good. Excellent reliabilty with no down time or breakdowns.
We're all entitled to our opinions, but some are severely mis-informed.
I've been pointed in this direction by a friend who frequents this site and its forums.
After reading the replies to the feature on the 620ti, I thought I'd just add a few things, and also, some of the far fetched stories and huge innacuracies gave me a good chuckle!
It would appear that on the whole, the feedback for this model was quite positive, and rightly so, it's a good car. Yes, there are better cars, faster, better handling, and accordingly, they cost more, so let's not get caught in that particular trap for starters.
A few random things I'm going to pick on from various threads in absolutely no order, and no naming of names at this stage, but:
There is no such thing as an 820ti
All 620ti models came with a type B TorSen diff.
'Chocolate' pistons as referred to are actually made by AE, though some very early ti models were fitted with Mahle pistons. The AE piston 'issue' is more to do with people leaving the stock intercooler in place and winding up the boost on the Garrett T25 turbo, thus substantially raising boost temps and causing the engine to expire prematurely. You can say that there are plenty of motors out there that will take huge increases in boost on stock components, well this isn't one of them, so no sense in arguing the toss. A more efficient intercooler and larger turbo will allow high boost to be used with factory reliability. A common transplant is the T28. Though allowing more lag, a T3 could also be employed, though the manifold flange needs modification.
These cars did not suffer HGF, but most suffered a very small weeping of oil at the front right of the block to head area (actually the rear right if we're being pedantic), this is caused by the main oil gallery being slightly out of clamping line with the headbolts. It's usually such an insignificant amount that it's not worth bothering about. Changing the headgasket will cure it, but only temporarily. One solution is to insert a snug fitting short length of copper pipe between the gallery ways which pretty much eliminates the problem. It's a pity Rover didn't effect such a cure, but it's all time and money I suppose, short sighted though that view may have been. So to reiterate, a slight oil weep on the front right of the engine IS NOT a sign of HGF.
The window runner problem is something which a lot of 600s seem to get, though the Euro CD Accord also suffers the exact same issue. The best way to avoid this problem is to keep the rubber channels well lubed with silicone enriched spray (say, 'back to black'), this is a practice which should be carried out on all cars though really.
Many complaints of handling not being the best, news flash time, it's not a hot hatch, it's a big comfy cruiser with motorway work in mind. That said, when fitted with decent tyres, they don't handle too badly at all, at worst, you could describe them as safe and predictable. Perfect then, as a daily driver, which is what this car is intended to be.
This also leads me onto the myth of these cars chewing through tyres in a matter of months, my own ti had a full set of fresh Goodyear NCT5s fitted nearly two and a half years ago, and while the fronts are more worn (you don't say), they still have at least 3 to 4mm of tread left.
What is this colossal torque steer that I hear of on here? All high powered FWD cars will suffer to a degree with torque steer to a degree, but it has to be said it's virtually undetectable in this car, due to the diff and a well sorted front suspension setup. Severe torque steer with one of these cars points to severely worn suspension components (intergalactic mileage) or badly repair crash damage.
Gearboxes, as already covered, can be a weak point, but again, if the car is thrashed all the time, this should come as no surprise. Gearboxes should always be filled to level with the correct MTF94 transmission oil. And as already said, gearboxes can be rebuilt with steel caged bearings. If you fancy going DIY, the bearings can be had for very little from various suppliers or even ebay, and while time consuming, it isn't a hard job to complete.
By the fact that someone suggested the 623 to be a more reliable car really confirms for me the amount of ignorance about the Rover powered models. The Honda H23A engine was a strong performer with decent economy for its size, with a good spread of power and torque, but unfortunately, it had a penchant for cracking its cylinder head, and good replacements are all but impossible to find, I know as it took hell's delight to try and find one for a customer a few years back. The SOHC Honda engines though are even if a little lack-lustre, good solid, reliable performers. Rover L series diesel is a bullet proof unit capable of interstellar mileage, with excellent economy. Let's not forget Honda used the L series for the Euro CD Accord of the same era.
Brakes, it's funny, but a lot of people seem to have this theory that they're particularly effective. Just because they're not over-servoed doesn't make them bad. With proper maintenance and fitment of decent quality OE specification pads, on the road they work just fine. Rear callipers can seize, causing poor parking brake performance. In most cases, a thorough strip, clean and regrease will bring them back to life.
If driven sensibly, these cars will return between 26 to 30 mpg, depending on traffic conditions and outside temperatures, and state of repair.
In all, because of the low value of these cars, people buy them cheaply, thrash them, abuse them, negate to maintain and service them, and then someone else buys the car, it goes wrong and that gives rise to the 'worst car I ever bought', or most unreliable car ever' type comments.
Looking on ebay, a lot have fallen into the the hands of boyracers who have turned a few examples into 'The Fast and the Furious' rejects, fitment of cheap bleed valves and innacurate boost gauges etc, call me Mr Obvious, but winding the boost up and thrashing the car around will have a negative effect on just about every aspect of the vehicle, no?
Low worth and therefore high neglect has, I think in general been something which has afflicted Rovers for years, again, due to their relatively low value and 'throw away' status.
I bought mine two and a half years ago, it had lots of history with it, and had been an ex lease car for 'Leisureways', so the services had always been kept on top of. Just about every receipt is present, and all work documented. The turbo, gearbox, headgasket etc are all original, it's now knocking on the door of 120,000 and so far so good. Excellent reliabilty with no down time or breakdowns.
We're all entitled to our opinions, but some are severely mis-informed.
The sky is rolling up on cardboard rollers..........!
I really want one of these, looked at one the other night but the turbo was knackered....the seller said it didnt have a turbo fitted, so I showed him where it was under the bonnet! Turns out that He had had the car for 2 years & never realised it was a turbo.....KN*B!!
Anyway has anyone got one that I can buy? Dont want a scabby chavved up abused example - I want a decent well looked after example......
PS - Cant find this one on autotrader so I guess its sold.....
I really want one of these, looked at one the other night but the turbo was knackered....the seller said it didnt have a turbo fitted, so I showed him where it was under the bonnet! Turns out that He had had the car for 2 years & never realised it was a turbo.....KN*B!!
Anyway has anyone got one that I can buy? Dont want a scabby chavved up abused example - I want a decent well looked after example......
PS - Cant find this one on autotrader so I guess its sold.....
Resurrecting the thread a tad as I have recently bought this...
...example to replace my dead MG ZT V6.
Similar performance to the ZT, smaller outside, bigger interior and cavernous boot space. I am averaging 23mpg so about as economical as the MG as well (some of that was towing and stuck in traffic).
The MG was killed because whoever did the last service failed to swap the water pump when they changed the belts. It seized and took eleven valves and a head gasket with it. The water pump on the T16 is part of the auxiliary (serpentine) belt drive so should it fail it won't take the car with it.
The only issue with my 620Ti is the metal water pipe from the pump to the radiator that goes in front of the engine feeding the turbo has rusted and drips a little. Obsolete part and I can't find a used one to make a Stainless Steel replacement.
Since this car was featured as shed of the week the 620Ti has become rarer thanks to people using the stronger version of the T16 in anything from autocross Mini's to newer MG ZR's. My car also qualifies for classic insurance now so it should be even cheaper when it comes to renewal. Best of all these cars have done depreciating. So long as I take care of the old bus and address a couple of things she should hold her value or even go up in a few years time.
My car is a 99 reg' so thanks to the EU making it mandatory for cars to have auxiliary brake lights in 1998 there is no tell tail rear spoiler and due to Rover bean counters not wanting to spend money on 618, 620, 623, 620Ti badges she's marked as a "Rover 600" on the boot making one of the best Q cars ever made even more stealth.
The Rover 620Ti made a lot of sense when this article was first published, now they are a no brainer.
Get one before the classic market drives prices skyward.
...example to replace my dead MG ZT V6.
Similar performance to the ZT, smaller outside, bigger interior and cavernous boot space. I am averaging 23mpg so about as economical as the MG as well (some of that was towing and stuck in traffic).
The MG was killed because whoever did the last service failed to swap the water pump when they changed the belts. It seized and took eleven valves and a head gasket with it. The water pump on the T16 is part of the auxiliary (serpentine) belt drive so should it fail it won't take the car with it.
The only issue with my 620Ti is the metal water pipe from the pump to the radiator that goes in front of the engine feeding the turbo has rusted and drips a little. Obsolete part and I can't find a used one to make a Stainless Steel replacement.
Since this car was featured as shed of the week the 620Ti has become rarer thanks to people using the stronger version of the T16 in anything from autocross Mini's to newer MG ZR's. My car also qualifies for classic insurance now so it should be even cheaper when it comes to renewal. Best of all these cars have done depreciating. So long as I take care of the old bus and address a couple of things she should hold her value or even go up in a few years time.
My car is a 99 reg' so thanks to the EU making it mandatory for cars to have auxiliary brake lights in 1998 there is no tell tail rear spoiler and due to Rover bean counters not wanting to spend money on 618, 620, 623, 620Ti badges she's marked as a "Rover 600" on the boot making one of the best Q cars ever made even more stealth.
The Rover 620Ti made a lot of sense when this article was first published, now they are a no brainer.
Get one before the classic market drives prices skyward.
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