Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
janesmith1950 said:
TheDeuce said:
Sorry I meant, what is the relevance of the divorce in terms of Bottas's performance? I had noted that Lewis has eschewed relationships and that Bottas had not, which could in some way explain Lewis's focus. The fact Bottas also had to deal with a separation wouldn't detract from that.
Hamilton was in a relationship with Nicole whateverherfaceis until February 2016, by which time he'd won 3 World Championships. The year they finished, Rosberg beat Hamilton to the title.
Schumacher was a family man.
Do you ever think about what you're typing?
Pointing to other drivers that have managed F1 and a relationship proves it can work, which is great. It in no way proves that its not a potential complication though.
I refuse to believe Bottas is suitably skilled to beat any of the tope 4 or 5 F1 drivers in the straight fight in the same car, because he doesn't have the ability, irrespective of whether he spends his nights tucked up with Mrs. Bottas with Morse and a cup of cocoa or spread eagled across a Canal Street bench being bukkaked by half of Manchester.
janesmith1950 said:
I refuse to believe Bottas is suitably skilled to beat any of the tope 4 or 5 F1 drivers in the straight fight in the same car, because he doesn't have the ability, irrespective of whether he spends his nights tucked up with Mrs. Bottas with Morse and a cup of cocoa or spread eagled across a Canal Street bench being bukkaked by half of Manchester.
Jesus... That's a very detailed image you presented 
He's a skilled driver no doubt, he has beaten LH on merit several times. There does appear to be something to do with Lewis, who I can believe really does live and breath F1, and most other drivers who don't have quite the same natural razor focus. I was perhaps wrong to mention relationships as a factor, but I do think the fact Lewis has avoided one for so many years is an indicator of just how focused he is.
EDIT: Lewis is also very clearly a phenomenal talent. Anyone looking to beat him for a sustained period would need the equal talent + composure and focus. That's a rare combination and as such, it's not surprising Lewis keeps winning a championship specifically designed to find the driver that has both qualities over and above their competitors.
Edited by TheDeuce on Sunday 26th January 18:53
Edited by TheDeuce on Sunday 26th January 18:53
janesmith1950 said:
TheDeuce said:
Sorry I meant, what is the relevance of the divorce in terms of Bottas's performance? I had noted that Lewis has eschewed relationships and that Bottas had not, which could in some way explain Lewis's focus. The fact Bottas also had to deal with a separation wouldn't detract from that.
Hamilton was in a relationship with Nicole whateverherfaceis until February 2016, by which time he'd won 3 World Championships. The year they finished, Rosberg beat Hamilton to the title.
Schumacher was a family man.
Do you ever think about what you're typing?
jsf said:
Lewis doesn't live and breath F1, quite the oposite, he has an active life outside the sport.
He has a great work ethic and intelligence that is applied to his job when it's required.
This. He went to Mercedes partly because they gave him more freedom from F1 than he’d had previously. He has a great work ethic and intelligence that is applied to his job when it's required.
And up until the end of 2016, Rosberg was far more involved at Brackley than Hamilton ever was. I don’t know about Bottas but he’s just not in the same league as either Rosberg or Hamilton.
Hamilton’s as good as any out there, better than most, and for the past 6 years has had the most complete car on the grid.
He’s not the Messiah.........
REALIST123 said:
jsf said:
Lewis doesn't live and breath F1, quite the oposite, he has an active life outside the sport.
He has a great work ethic and intelligence that is applied to his job when it's required.
This. He went to Mercedes partly because they gave him more freedom from F1 than he’d had previously. He has a great work ethic and intelligence that is applied to his job when it's required.
And up until the end of 2016, Rosberg was far more involved at Brackley than Hamilton ever was. I don’t know about Bottas but he’s just not in the same league as either Rosberg or Hamilton.
Hamilton’s as good as any out there, better than most, and for the past 6 years has had the most complete car on the grid.
He’s not the Messiah.........
Lewis manages to tick all the 'perfect driver' boxes. As opposed to Max for example, who is mesmerising but clearly leaves a few boxes unticked.. Leclerc on the other hand.. He's not fully proven how stable under pressure he can be just yet but I get the feeling he's very much in control of himself, especially relative to his age.
TheDeuce said:
Interesting..
It's all very well looking to save costs and a 120m salary commitment sounds like a good place to start! On the other hand, someone on Lewis's side might have calculated that his continuation at Mercedes is the best value marketing tool they can get for the money..
Has he been worth over £1m per week to Mercedes over the years? We're talking here about a company that spends millions per day on R&D alone, quite possibly he's a bargain and they know it - he knows it.
I've a feeling that he's in a win win position. He wins if he gets the money, if not he'll feel justified in walking away. He doesn't need the money.. the question is, do Mercedes need him? The answer is probably yes. Amazingly he quite possibly is 'worth' the money. All top drivers pay is likely to ramp up post cost caps anyway, driver pay is excluded from the cap so it's an obvious way to gain an advantage with the new incoming budgets.
the hate-boys will spit but Lewis' image will go down in history as iconic. I don't know what personal transportation, or the Mercedes company, or indeed formula 1 will look like in 20 or 30 years time, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were to be found still dining out on this glory period, and that's worth a ton of money.It's all very well looking to save costs and a 120m salary commitment sounds like a good place to start! On the other hand, someone on Lewis's side might have calculated that his continuation at Mercedes is the best value marketing tool they can get for the money..
Has he been worth over £1m per week to Mercedes over the years? We're talking here about a company that spends millions per day on R&D alone, quite possibly he's a bargain and they know it - he knows it.
I've a feeling that he's in a win win position. He wins if he gets the money, if not he'll feel justified in walking away. He doesn't need the money.. the question is, do Mercedes need him? The answer is probably yes. Amazingly he quite possibly is 'worth' the money. All top drivers pay is likely to ramp up post cost caps anyway, driver pay is excluded from the cap so it's an obvious way to gain an advantage with the new incoming budgets.
Teddy Lop said:
the hate-boys will spit but Lewis' image will go down in history as iconic. I don't know what personal transportation, or the Mercedes company, or indeed formula 1 will look like in 20 or 30 years time, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were to be found still dining out on this glory period, and that's worth a ton of money.
not sure management will view things in this 'romantic' manner during current negotiations.i do agree though, Lewis's era will be the source of many retrospectives and great recollections in decades to come.
we'll be in our rocking chairs mumbling to anyone who'll listen
iandc said:
rscott said:
And the young blingy mindset are the ones getting new cars every three years on finance - something car manufacturers love.
The young blingy mindset don't need finance. They pop to the Mercedes dealer with a wad of cash! Don't underestimate the value of image to car manufacturers. As stated above, Mercedes were always seen as an old man's car. Not anymore and if that encourages a younger clientele the image transformation has been successful.Sir will tick all those options too and not question the price because he isn't paying for it now and the cost is unclear anyway... Sir doesn't care how badly funking made it is either....
Much more valuable than the occasional d!ckhead who turns up with some cash and expects a "good deal." (This isn't a lets-do cash v. finance row BTW I don't care, each to his own - this is just how the industry works!)
CABC said:
Teddy Lop said:
the hate-boys will spit but Lewis' image will go down in history as iconic. I don't know what personal transportation, or the Mercedes company, or indeed formula 1 will look like in 20 or 30 years time, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were to be found still dining out on this glory period, and that's worth a ton of money.
not sure management will view things in this 'romantic' manner during current negotiations.i do agree though, Lewis's era will be the source of many retrospectives and great recollections in decades to come.
we'll be in our rocking chairs mumbling to anyone who'll listen
Teddy Lop said:
the hate-boys will spit but Lewis' image will go down in history as iconic. I don't know what personal transportation, or the Mercedes company, or indeed formula 1 will look like in 20 or 30 years time, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they were to be found still dining out on this glory period, and that's worth a ton of money.
If he wins again this season, and of course if Merc F1 win constructors - there is a reasonable chance that those records could stand in 20 years time too. So not only something to dine out on, they could still be the ones to beat in future F1 even if they left the sport years before. In the same way as LH's achievements can't be mentioned without reference to how close he is to MS's records. Once Lewis and Mercedes hold the records, they're 'in' the sport until beaten - even it they're not in it and it's not costing them a penny.I'm sure Mercedes hate the idea of being seen to pay one guy £120m. I find it a little rediculous... But that doesn't mean he's not worth it to them. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict he'll get the deal, but the headline ££ figure will be reduced and the balance paid via performance bonuses that he's virtually guaranteed to hit.
jsf said:
sparta6 said:
Mercedes are launching 32 new cars in the next 2 years, regardless of who is in it's F1 seats. This has been in prep for a few years.
Bottas has shown he can win the WDC in a Merc if Lewis stops or switches team.
Against Lewis in a red bull or Ferrari or maybe even a working McLaren, i wouldn't bet on that.Bottas has shown he can win the WDC in a Merc if Lewis stops or switches team.
sparta6 seems to be implying that if Hamilton leaves, Bottas will just carry on winning championships for Merc. I think he's (still) wrong.
kiseca said:
sparta6 seems to be implying that if Hamilton leaves, Bottas will just carry on winning championships for Merc. I think he's (still) wrong.
Its perfectly clear if you look at the results over the past three seasons that they have been paired. Hamilton 1st, 1st, 1st
Bottas 3rd, 5th, 2nd
I very much doubt that anybody is going to assert that Bottas is finishing below 2nd because of team orders or inferior machinery.
There is an implicit advantage for Hamilton in being the team leader and de facto number one even though Mercedes appears to be one of the most even-handed teams on the grid.
There was an explicit 'advantage Vettel' at Ferrari a year ago but Leclerc was good enough to nullify that before the halfway point in the season.
It's not unfair to say that Bottas would be up there, and might even be a little more competitive were he #1 driver (with the engineering advantages that come with that). But I suspect it would be a mega competitive championship without Hamilton, with Red Bull and Ferrari being in the mix.
kiseca said:
I think Mercedes would have no trouble attracting someone who can at least equal Bottas into the second seat. I reckon even Hulk would give him a hard time.
If they got Ricciardo, Bottas would soon be the second quickest driver in the team again.
Ricciardo to Mercedes post Lewis... I'd love to see that. That guy really needs a top car. I missed seeing him in the mix fighting for podiums last year.If they got Ricciardo, Bottas would soon be the second quickest driver in the team again.
I've always felt that we've been continually robbed of the chance to see just how good DR really could be. He drove very well in the Red Bull but so many performances were blunted by DNFs. In 2014, when he beat Vettel through a season, it seemed a foregone conclusion he would go on to win titles...
With LeClerc and Verstappen tied down - and to be fair both with their weaknesses (LeClerc is still only two seasons in and lacks experience, Max isn't particularly good at securing points, tends to gather points as a few big bangs rather than consistent, reliable performance), Ricciardo seems the wild card in the pack. We know Max has the measure of him for speed, but not by a lot, and we know Ricciardo is generally a safer bet to keep getting points but is also a proven winner, even under pressure.
Being at Renault isn't helping him. Impossible to say for sure but I'd think if he was in Vettel's Ferrari last year, LeClerc would have given him a scare from time to time, but not beaten him over the season. And he'd have been closer to Hamilton than Bottas managed.
All opinion and I hope we do see more opportunities to gauge his quality in the future. We've already seen him paired with Vettel and Verstappen and shown he can deliver. At Renault it took him a few races to get used to the car but he managed it, and when he did get used to it (or get it adjusted to his liking), he had the better of Hulkenberg too.
IMO he's the one top driver on the grid right now, i.e. has speed, consistency and experience, without a car to match. That needs to change before he gets used to being a midfield runner otherwise I think he'll become another what if.
Being at Renault isn't helping him. Impossible to say for sure but I'd think if he was in Vettel's Ferrari last year, LeClerc would have given him a scare from time to time, but not beaten him over the season. And he'd have been closer to Hamilton than Bottas managed.
All opinion and I hope we do see more opportunities to gauge his quality in the future. We've already seen him paired with Vettel and Verstappen and shown he can deliver. At Renault it took him a few races to get used to the car but he managed it, and when he did get used to it (or get it adjusted to his liking), he had the better of Hulkenberg too.
IMO he's the one top driver on the grid right now, i.e. has speed, consistency and experience, without a car to match. That needs to change before he gets used to being a midfield runner otherwise I think he'll become another what if.
kiseca said:
With LeClerc and Verstappen tied down - and to be fair both with their weaknesses (LeClerc is still only two seasons in and lacks experience, Max isn't particularly good at securing points, tends to gather points as a few big bangs rather than consistent, reliable performance), Ricciardo seems the wild card in the pack. We know Max has the measure of him for speed, but not by a lot, and we know Ricciardo is generally a safer bet to keep getting points but is also a proven winner, even under pressure.
Being at Renault isn't helping him. Impossible to say for sure but I'd think if he was in Vettel's Ferrari last year, LeClerc would have given him a scare from time to time, but not beaten him over the season. And he'd have been closer to Hamilton than Bottas managed.
All opinion and I hope we do see more opportunities to gauge his quality in the future. We've already seen him paired with Vettel and Verstappen and shown he can deliver. At Renault it took him a few races to get used to the car but he managed it, and when he did get used to it (or get it adjusted to his liking), he had the better of Hulkenberg too.
IMO he's the one top driver on the grid right now, i.e. has speed, consistency and experience, without a car to match. That needs to change before he gets used to being a midfield runner otherwise I think he'll become another what if.
LH & SV will depart the sport sooner or later, and at that point it's difficult to imagine DR not being hot-listed to take a top seat.Being at Renault isn't helping him. Impossible to say for sure but I'd think if he was in Vettel's Ferrari last year, LeClerc would have given him a scare from time to time, but not beaten him over the season. And he'd have been closer to Hamilton than Bottas managed.
All opinion and I hope we do see more opportunities to gauge his quality in the future. We've already seen him paired with Vettel and Verstappen and shown he can deliver. At Renault it took him a few races to get used to the car but he managed it, and when he did get used to it (or get it adjusted to his liking), he had the better of Hulkenberg too.
IMO he's the one top driver on the grid right now, i.e. has speed, consistency and experience, without a car to match. That needs to change before he gets used to being a midfield runner otherwise I think he'll become another what if.
It does feel wrong that he's languishing in a team that would themselves admit podiums are a target, not a reality right now. But to be honest the saddest part for me was his 2018 season at Red Bull - because I would say although he drove a very different style to Max, he was every bit as impressive. The results don't reflect that, they're distorted by a farcical number of DNF's.. When Max is in the zone he is slightly quicker perhaps, but DR has the ability to recover a potentially bad race result by ludicrous overtaking whilst generally avoiding incident and pulls up his average as a result. Different ways of winning points, but by my calculation, if the DNF's were removed from 2018 they would have been close enough to call equal.
Apologies to anyone wondering why DR chat is in the LH thread.. But c'mon, there is a chance he could be Lewis's replacement some day
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