Lewis Hamilton

Lewis Hamilton

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PanicBuyingBogRoll

1,117 posts

23 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2020
quotequote all
He's black, is rich, likes fashion, rap, American culture and is smashing the records in a typically rich white persons sport.

And we are supprised a load of whit, middle class people don't like him or his opinions.

We'll colour me shocked.

How many of you start a sentence with. I'm not racist but......?

vdn

7,836 posts

164 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2020
quotequote all
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
He's black, is rich, likes fashion, rap, American culture and is smashing the records in a typically rich white persons sport.

And we are supprised a load of whit, middle class people don't like him or his opinions.

We'll colour me shocked.

How many of you start a sentence with. I'm not racist but......?
About 80% of Pistonheads I would estimate.

sparta6

2,354 posts

61 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2020
quotequote all
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
He's black, is rich, likes fashion, rap, American culture and is smashing the records in a typically rich white persons sport.

And we are supprised a load of whit, middle class people don't like him or his opinions.

We'll colour me shocked.

How many of you start a sentence with. I'm not racist but......?
Are you for real ?

Hamilton has enjoyed the full support of white, middle class people throughout his career.





MG CHRIS

7,426 posts

128 months

Tuesday 2nd June 2020
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
He's black, is rich, likes fashion, rap, American culture and is smashing the records in a typically rich white persons sport.

And we are supprised a load of whit, middle class people don't like him or his opinions.

We'll colour me shocked.

How many of you start a sentence with. I'm not racist but......?
Are you for real ?

Hamilton has enjoyed the full support of white, middle class people throughout his career.
Agreed im a poor white guy I think Hamilton is one of the best drivers in f1 history his skill and speed is up there with the best and has kept on getting quicker. Hamilton the person I don't like much at all he acts like he is unique and only he has had hardship.
Which is the total opposite to his brother who genuinely has face hardship with his disability and is one of the nicest guys you could meet he acts like he is the same as all the other racers on the grid and doesn't make excuses.

I guess that make me a racist in panicbuyingbogrolls eyes.

vdn

7,836 posts

164 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
He's black, is rich, likes fashion, rap, American culture and is smashing the records in a typically rich white persons sport.

And we are supprised a load of whit, middle class people don't like him or his opinions.

We'll colour me shocked.

How many of you start a sentence with. I'm not racist but......?
Are you for real ?

Hamilton has enjoyed the full support of white, middle class people throughout his career.
Both of your comments don’t contradict each other; so unsure what your point is Sparta...

Muzzer79

4,172 posts

148 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
MG CHRIS said:
Hamilton the person I don't like much at all he acts like he is unique and only he has had hardship.
Which is the total opposite to his brother who genuinely has face hardship with his disability and is one of the nicest guys you could meet he acts like he is the same as all the other racers on the grid and doesn't make excuses.
Please share your close-hand insight into Lewis' life pre-Formula One and your in-depth detail on how hard his family struggled.

Then, share your (presumably) numerous meetings in person with him that have led you to the conclusion that you don't like him much as a person and to support the inference that he's not a nice guy, doesn't act like he's the same as everyone else and makes excuses.

Nampahc Niloc

675 posts

39 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
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Hazmat1 said:
Well I know what I will be getting Cmoose for Christmas... a nice white pointy hood.
Please quote where a moose has been racist. It seems many people on here are either not reading what Cmoose is actually saying or deliberately choosing to ignore the main point.

People’s main criticism is that Hamilton decided to try and shame others into speaking out. Cmoose’s point was that there are plenty of injustices in the world that Lewis doesn’t talk about. So who is he to shame others for keeping quiet.

HighwayStar

3,161 posts

105 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
Nampahc Niloc said:
Please quote where a moose has been racist. It seems many people on here are either not reading what Cmoose is actually saying or deliberately choosing to ignore the main point.

People’s main criticism is that Hamilton decided to try and shame others into speaking out. Cmoose’s point was that there are plenty of injustices in the world that Lewis doesn’t talk about. So who is he to shame others for keeping quiet.
I defended Cmoose earlier but it was removed by the mods as I’d quoted Hazmats post. Cmoose has strong views and beliefs and will defends them but to suggest what Haz did is totally out of order.

longblackcoat

4,457 posts

144 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
Please quote where a moose has been racist. It seems many people on here are either not reading what Cmoose is actually saying or deliberately choosing to ignore the main point.

People’s main criticism is that Hamilton decided to try and shame others into speaking out. Cmoose’s point was that there are plenty of injustices in the world that Lewis doesn’t talk about. So who is he to shame others for keeping quiet.
I defended Cmoose earlier but it was removed by the mods as I’d quoted Hazmats post. Cmoose has strong views and beliefs and will defends them but to suggest what Haz did is totally out of order.
Others will draw a different conclusion from the whataboutisms and the repeated dog-whistle of “virtue-signalling”.

Just because someone defends their strong views doesn’t means they’re actually defensible.

lauda

2,155 posts

168 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
He's black, is rich, likes fashion, rap, American culture and is smashing the records in a typically rich white persons sport.

And we are supprised a load of whit, middle class people don't like him or his opinions.

We'll colour me shocked.

How many of you start a sentence with. I'm not racist but......?
I don't want to start throwing the term racism around because I'm not sure that that is the issue with regards to Hamilton's relative popularity, I think it's more to do with how people relate to him.

I'm sure if you looked at the demographic breakdown of F1 fans, it probably is mainly white, mainly older males, certainly in the traditional European market. Let's take my dad as an example. He's been an F1 fan his entire life and is now in his 70s. He thinks Hamilton is the best driver on the current F1 grid and has always supported him and been pleased when he's won races and championships.

But my dad also thinks Hamilton is a bit of a prat. He doesn't get the whole fashion/rap/US cultural reference stuff. That's no surprise really since he hasn't updated his cultural references since the 80s. He's an old man now and I don't expect his opinions or beliefs on many things to change now.

Now it might be that lots of other F1 drivers share many of Hamilton's interests outside of F1 but none of them have the mainstream celebrity profile of Hamilton and therefore we don't hear so much about them. It makes Hamilton more visible and as we know, when you put your head above the parapet, someone will always be waiting to take a pot shot.

I think what I'm trying to say is that Hamilton gets more stick than other drivers but I don't necessarily think that most of it is outright racism. He's just the most high profile driver and the one who most visibly lives a lifestyle that the traditional core F1 supporter might struggle to comprehend.

Hazmat1

137 posts

59 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
Did I explicitly say that moose was racist? No

Did moose leave just enough wiggle room in his statements? absolutely.

It’s down to interpretation. My comment got binned because people either assumed that I was calling him racist or that he took offence at the suggestion that he could have his statements perceived as being racist.

It’s pretty easy, if you don’t want people to reach the “wrong” conclusion about you don’t write borderline offence crap and then get upset about it.

Munter

30,360 posts

202 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
lauda said:
He thinks Hamilton is the best driver on the current F1 grid and has always supported him and been pleased when he's won races and championships.

But my dad also thinks Hamilton is a bit of a prat. He doesn't get the whole fashion/rap/US cultural reference stuff.
I think I'm your dad....

But last time I said stuff like that some posters took it to be some of the most racist stuff around. Apparently, Lewis's sense of fashion/music etc is all part of his race and if you don't like it then you're a racist or something.

Lewis doesn't like US culture (because what he's posting as being against is part of that). He likes the promoted idea of US culture, that's actually a veneer on the surface of the real USA.

US culture is highly decisive. Almost everything includes race when it's possible to do so. It's never "then this guy entered the store". It's always "then a white/black/asian man entered the store". It's so ingrained into their culture that when you point it out they often struggle to see it.

It not just race either, it's all sorts of inequalities. We're not perfect over here in the UK but if you look beneath the veneer at the US, it's a whole lot worse if you happen to be ugly/poor/not white/sick/and god knows what else outside the perceived "norm".

Anyway. Lewis is a great driver. I wish him success both on and off the track and a long and healthy life for him and his family.
But he does come across as a bit of a prat sometimes. That's not because of his race. But because sometimes he's doing something that makes him look like a bit of a prat. As do we all in the eyes of others.

MarkwG

2,722 posts

150 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
lauda said:
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
He's black, is rich, likes fashion, rap, American culture and is smashing the records in a typically rich white persons sport.

And we are supprised a load of whit, middle class people don't like him or his opinions.

We'll colour me shocked.

How many of you start a sentence with. I'm not racist but......?
I don't want to start throwing the term racism around because I'm not sure that that is the issue with regards to Hamilton's relative popularity, I think it's more to do with how people relate to him.

I'm sure if you looked at the demographic breakdown of F1 fans, it probably is mainly white, mainly older males, certainly in the traditional European market. Let's take my dad as an example. He's been an F1 fan his entire life and is now in his 70s. He thinks Hamilton is the best driver on the current F1 grid and has always supported him and been pleased when he's won races and championships.

But my dad also thinks Hamilton is a bit of a prat. He doesn't get the whole fashion/rap/US cultural reference stuff. That's no surprise really since he hasn't updated his cultural references since the 80s. He's an old man now and I don't expect his opinions or beliefs on many things to change now.

Now it might be that lots of other F1 drivers share many of Hamilton's interests outside of F1 but none of them have the mainstream celebrity profile of Hamilton and therefore we don't hear so much about them. It makes Hamilton more visible and as we know, when you put your head above the parapet, someone will always be waiting to take a pot shot.

I think what I'm trying to say is that Hamilton gets more stick than other drivers but I don't necessarily think that most of it is outright racism. He's just the most high profile driver and the one who most visibly lives a lifestyle that the traditional core F1 supporter might struggle to comprehend.
You make some very good & well considered points; with the last one, though, I have a slightly different take. Lewis is one of the first F1 racing drivers from an ethnic minority background. He's also the most successful, not only against that background, but overall. That puts his head well above the parapet, & has made him a target as a result. I've heard, read & challenged, conversation that is based on his colour, rather than his driving. That simply wouldn't happen with a "white" driver. He's also bringing a whole host of new fans to F1; he 's cognisant of that, & when issues like this arise, it's as much to those fans he's framing his comments. For that part of the F1 audience, it would seem bizarre if he didn't say something, & call out those who don't or haven't - other sports have taken a stand, for example, the Liverpool footballers at the weekend. For me, there's nothing unusual or unacceptable in what he's said, or his position. He's an ambassador of the sport, by virtue of his success & the voice he has as a result. For me, it's time everyone stood up & said violence of the sort that led to the death of George Floyd is unacceptable, to say otherwise is tacitly condoning it. If what he said triggers the some of the other drivers to stand up, so be it.

Edited by MarkwG on Wednesday 3rd June 11:29

ben5575

3,538 posts

182 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
Nampahc Niloc said:
Hazmat1 said:
Well I know what I will be getting Cmoose for Christmas... a nice white pointy hood.
Please quote where a moose has been racist. It seems many people on here are either not reading what Cmoose is actually saying or deliberately choosing to ignore the main point.

People’s main criticism is that Hamilton decided to try and shame others into speaking out. Cmoose’s point was that there are plenty of injustices in the world that Lewis doesn’t talk about. So who is he to shame others for keeping quiet.
I suspect that LH called out his colleagues in F1 because they are still under the impression that racism is a black issue when in fact it's very much a white issue.

Silently comforting yourself that it's ok because you're not a racist does not stop racism, as has been made abundantly clear from recent events. LH has challenged the fact that white people should absolutely be talking about racism, not shying away from it because it's 'not their place to do so'. It absolutely is their, our, place to do so, because it's 'us' white people that's doing the killing.

Throwing around ludicrous whataboutisms in a dire attempt to support accusations of hypocrisy (duh but he doesn't talk about every injustice in the world so, duh, hypocrite, wibble) is absolutely the kind of institutionalised, endemic thinking that LH is calling out.

Or something like that. Anyhoo, not long until we see him back in the car smile

Rumblestripe

1,719 posts

123 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
ben5575 said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
Hazmat1 said:
Well I know what I will be getting Cmoose for Christmas... a nice white pointy hood.
Please quote where a moose has been racist. It seems many people on here are either not reading what Cmoose is actually saying or deliberately choosing to ignore the main point.

People’s main criticism is that Hamilton decided to try and shame others into speaking out. Cmoose’s point was that there are plenty of injustices in the world that Lewis doesn’t talk about. So who is he to shame others for keeping quiet.
I suspect that LH called out his colleagues in F1 because they are still under the impression that racism is a black issue when in fact it's very much a white issue.

Silently comforting yourself that it's ok because you're not a racist does not stop racism, as has been made abundantly clear from recent events. LH has challenged the fact that white people should absolutely be talking about racism, not shying away from it because it's 'not their place to do so'. It absolutely is their, our, place to do so, because it's 'us' white people that's doing the killing.

Throwing around ludicrous whataboutisms in a dire attempt to support accusations of hypocrisy (duh but he doesn't talk about every injustice in the world so, duh, hypocrite, wibble) is absolutely the kind of institutionalised, endemic thinking that LH is calling out.

Or something like that. Anyhoo, not long until we see him back in the car smile
Well said

vdn

7,836 posts

164 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
ben5575 said:
I suspect that LH called out his colleagues in F1 because they are still under the impression that racism is a black issue when in fact it's very much a white issue.

Silently comforting yourself that it's ok because you're not a racist does not stop racism, as has been made abundantly clear from recent events. LH has challenged the fact that white people should absolutely be talking about racism, not shying away from it because it's 'not their place to do so'. It absolutely is their, our, place to do so, because it's 'us' white people that's doing the killing.

Throwing around ludicrous whataboutisms in a dire attempt to support accusations of hypocrisy (duh but he doesn't talk about every injustice in the world so, duh, hypocrite, wibble) is absolutely the kind of institutionalised, endemic thinking that LH is calling out.

Or something like that. Anyhoo, not long until we see him back in the car smile
Careful; that’s too woke a post for the likes of PH. There’s many a measly mind that’ll not get their head around it I’m afraid.

RobGT81

5,149 posts

147 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
Perhaps as a mixed-race person who has dealt with racism in his life and spends a lot of his time in the USA, he was troubled by a policeman there standing on a citizen's neck until he died.

Is it really that hard to understand?
But he doesn't have a problem with working class white girls being groomed and raped in the UK?

vdn

7,836 posts

164 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
paulguitar said:
Perhaps as a mixed-race person who has dealt with racism in his life and spends a lot of his time in the USA, he was troubled by a policeman there standing on a citizen's neck until he died.

Is it really that hard to understand?
But he doesn't have a problem with working class white girls being groomed and raped in the UK?
This is the typical thicko PH response, quoted for prosperity.

“Because this is happening; why’s he speaking about that...”

Everyone has an issue with girls being groomed; it’s universally accepted that it’s wrong; bar the scumbags who do it. The same isn’t true for black citizens being murdered in broad daylight in America. I’m shocked it’s so hard to understand. Not sure why; I’ve been here long enough.

paulguitar

9,733 posts

74 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
RobGT81 said:
But he doesn't have a problem with working class white girls being groomed and raped in the UK?
He told you that?




Munter

30,360 posts

202 months

Wednesday 3rd June 2020
quotequote all
vdn said:
Everyone has an issue with girls being groomed;
Well...clearly that's not true. Or it wouldn't happen.

"Everybody" doesn't "anything". There's always someone who thinks something is ok to do/not do. The question is the scale and impact of the "thing" in question and therefore how important it is to any given individual who's aware of it.

You and I both think that a policeman kneeling on the neck of a citizen they have sworn to protect, until that citizen is dead, is wrong. It's even worse if that happens because the citizen happens to be black.

But that cop. At that time. Felt his actions were ok to do, because "something". Or he wouldn't have done it.

The same would be true of gangs grooming kids for whatever sexual/illegal purpose. They feel it's ok to do because "something".

In both cases we need (as a global society, not PH. Because this is just a pointless exercise in time wasting for "weirdos" who like cars), to figure out how to stop any of these wrong "things" being true to that person, and any future person, as best we can, which will not be perfect.
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