Max Verstappen

Max Verstappen

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Register1

660 posts

42 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
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768 said:
Worst ever is probably excessive. I think Webber was closer to the mark - it was a st decision.
I am sure it was CH who said that.

R1

768

5,488 posts

44 months

blade7

8,993 posts

164 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
quotequote all
Doink said:
They had to do something because cutting corners is a bit different to running wide IMO, cutting corners is shortening the distance driven as opposed to lengthening, if they let that go it'll also be OK to straight line the last chicane or the first corner at Canada, first corner in Barcelona or Australia, I think it was a fair decision, Max and his team are only pissed because he didn't get on the podium after starting last which would of been a truly great achievement but forth ain't so bad either but he and they wanted third so bad they're making themselves look like fools trying to justify cutting a corner to get in front of another car
What about MV calling the steward an 'idiot' on TV, meaningless fine incoming?

WinstonWolf

71,771 posts

187 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
quotequote all
blade7 said:
Doink said:
They had to do something because cutting corners is a bit different to running wide IMO, cutting corners is shortening the distance driven as opposed to lengthening, if they let that go it'll also be OK to straight line the last chicane or the first corner at Canada, first corner in Barcelona or Australia, I think it was a fair decision, Max and his team are only pissed because he didn't get on the podium after starting last which would of been a truly great achievement but forth ain't so bad either but he and they wanted third so bad they're making themselves look like fools trying to justify cutting a corner to get in front of another car
What about MV calling the steward an 'idiot' on TV, meaningless fine incoming?
Factually correct, I don't have a problem with it as the stewards decision was idiotic.

Do we want racing or a procession?

turbomoped

1,025 posts

31 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
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I had a flashback to walking into a cosco without a membership card watching young Max get dragged out of the room lol.

Doink

1,387 posts

95 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
quotequote all
blade7 said:
Doink said:
They had to do something because cutting corners is a bit different to running wide IMO, cutting corners is shortening the distance driven as opposed to lengthening, if they let that go it'll also be OK to straight line the last chicane or the first corner at Canada, first corner in Barcelona or Australia, I think it was a fair decision, Max and his team are only pissed because he didn't get on the podium after starting last which would of been a truly great achievement but forth ain't so bad either but he and they wanted third so bad they're making themselves look like fools trying to justify cutting a corner to get in front of another car
What about MV calling the steward an 'idiot' on TV, meaningless fine incoming?
Maybe that's the reason he got 1 penalty point on his licence as well?

Corpulent Tosser

5,447 posts

193 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
blade7 said:
Doink said:
They had to do something because cutting corners is a bit different to running wide IMO, cutting corners is shortening the distance driven as opposed to lengthening, if they let that go it'll also be OK to straight line the last chicane or the first corner at Canada, first corner in Barcelona or Australia, I think it was a fair decision, Max and his team are only pissed because he didn't get on the podium after starting last which would of been a truly great achievement but forth ain't so bad either but he and they wanted third so bad they're making themselves look like fools trying to justify cutting a corner to get in front of another car
What about MV calling the steward an 'idiot' on TV, meaningless fine incoming?
Factually correct, I don't have a problem with it as the stewards decision was idiotic.

Do we want racing or a procession?
I don’t think the choices are racing or procession, how about racing within the track limits, how about not gaining advantage by cutting a corner.

stiII_I_undomyseatbelts

210 posts

26 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
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Corpulent Tosser said:
I don’t think the choices are racing or procession, how about racing within the track limits, how about not gaining advantage by cutting a corner.
I mean honestly, what are we doing here, racing or cutting corners? Grazie grazie bella.

CraigyMc

10,982 posts

184 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
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Corpulent Tosser said:
I don’t think the choices are racing or procession, how about racing within the track limits, how about not gaining advantage by cutting a corner.
Vettel had all 4 wheels off the track at the exit of the first corner while tracing wheel-to-wheel with Hamilton. Presumably you'd have penalised him too?

thegreenhell

6,303 posts

167 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
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It's been well documented that the FIA treat the first corner of the race with more leniency due to the inherent chaotic nature of race starts.

WinstonWolf

71,771 posts

187 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
quotequote all
Corpulent Tosser said:
WinstonWolf said:
blade7 said:
Doink said:
They had to do something because cutting corners is a bit different to running wide IMO, cutting corners is shortening the distance driven as opposed to lengthening, if they let that go it'll also be OK to straight line the last chicane or the first corner at Canada, first corner in Barcelona or Australia, I think it was a fair decision, Max and his team are only pissed because he didn't get on the podium after starting last which would of been a truly great achievement but forth ain't so bad either but he and they wanted third so bad they're making themselves look like fools trying to justify cutting a corner to get in front of another car
What about MV calling the steward an 'idiot' on TV, meaningless fine incoming?
Factually correct, I don't have a problem with it as the stewards decision was idiotic.

Do we want racing or a procession?
I don’t think the choices are racing or procession, how about racing within the track limits, how about not gaining advantage by cutting a corner.
They all exceeded track limits, why not apply the rules consistently?

That finish was actually exciting, I normally doze off in F1 the last few years. If a bit of corner cutting brings us exciting racing like that bring it on I say.

MV deserved his place on the podium yesterday, the stewards spoiled the race for me.

E-bmw

5,235 posts

100 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
quotequote all
The issue I have with the penalty has been well talked about over the years.

If the rule is keep all 4 wheels on circuit at all times then apply it.

No grey areas.

Kimi did move, Max did respond, Max went off track, they didn't crash, Kimi didn't complain, no penalty UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

You cannot have a rule that basically says "remain on track, if you leave & gain an advantage you will get a penalty" because then you need someone to define "gain an advantage" and that person (by definition) wasn't there making that decision.

During that race everyone went off track & by virtue of the fact that there wasn't gravel there, they all gained an advantage, otherwise they would have been beached in the kitty litter.

llewop

3,143 posts

159 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
The issue I have with the penalty has been well talked about over the years.

If the rule is keep all 4 wheels on circuit at all times then apply it.

No grey areas.
Absolutely this - and if necessary change off track features such as gravel, kerbs or walls to help 'encourage' drivers to avoid temptation.

It drives me mad when they allow certain track excursions as 'no advantage'; if there was no advantage do you think they'd be doing it? Even if they are travelling a bit further, carrying more speed or whatever is the advantage they are after.

The sporting regulations have this:
27.3 Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not
deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason.

Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and,
for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part
of the track but the kerbs are not.

Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is
safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race
director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he
gained by leaving the track.

Clearly Max didn't comply with the last one - he left the track, rejoined with a lasting advantage. But as he and Horner said; others did so too at other times and corners. Also at other circuits where it was declared that exceeding track limits at corner x or y was 'ok' rolleyes

They have the technology to accurately track car positions and many cameras to back that up. So the rule that should be consistently applied (except perhaps in the first couple of corners after the start, but even then there should probably be an element of justification) and it should be enforced both technically with penalties (3 strikes and you get a stop and go?) but also physically with altered furniture/features to remove the advantage and therefore the temptation.

CraigyMc

10,982 posts

184 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
quotequote all

SeeFive

7,412 posts

181 months

Monday 23rd October 2017
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CraigyMc said:
It isn't the first time.

Penalty. (Actually the penalty was for not giving the place back properly (or it could be argued not to Ferrari's total satisfaction)).




johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

112 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
CraigyMc said:
unless the rule states it shall only be applied on the last lap of a GP then they should all be penalised and have a penalty point...I will not hold my breath.
After a great GP the new F1 owners must have been delighted for about 5 mins then a collective WTF is all that about rang out.

witko999

271 posts

156 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
CraigyMc said:
The only relevant picture here is the top left one. Of the rest, Hamilton and Vettel are alone on track and gained no real advantage, Bottas was forced off track by Ricciardo's do or die move and had every right to keep his place, and the other pic is the first corner of the first lap, where it seems to be allowed to run people (or yourself) off the road to some extent.

CraigyMc

10,982 posts

184 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
witko999 said:
The only relevant picture here is the top left one. Of the rest, Hamilton and Vettel are alone on track and gained no real advantage, Bottas was forced off track by Ricciardo's do or die move and had every right to keep his place, and the other pic is the first corner of the first lap, where it seems to be allowed to run people (or yourself) off the road to some extent.
Inaccurate.
The Vettel shot, for example, is after he ran wide at turn 1 on the first lap. Had he stayed on the track, he'd likely have been overtaken by Hamilton, who stayed on the tarmac.

This bypasses the main point though, which is - if you have rules, apply them consistently. The FIA have failed to do that.

FIA F1 Sporting Regs 2017 said:
27.3
Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason.

Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and, for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he gained by leaving the track.
In every case in the photo I posted, a lasting advantage was gained. Even Kimi thought the Max pass was fine.

E34-3.2

981 posts

27 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
CraigyMc said:
In every case in the photo I posted, a lasting advantage was gained. Even Kimi thought the Max pass was fine.
Kimi didn't think the pass was fine.

https://youtu.be/UwXBefpUUz0

CraigyMc

10,982 posts

184 months

Tuesday 24th October 2017
quotequote all
E34-3.2 said:
CraigyMc said:
In every case in the photo I posted, a lasting advantage was gained. Even Kimi thought the Max pass was fine.
Kimi didn't think the pass was fine.

https://youtu.be/UwXBefpUUz0
Kimi said:
"I have no idea what happened with Verstappen or why he got the penalty," said Raikkonen.

"I had no idea what happened to him apart from he got past me at the second-last corner.

"Obviously I was disappointed just after the race when I thought I had finished fourth but there was some issue with Max.

"I got to go on the podium but didn't see it, I don't know where he went."

And Raikkonen was equally surprised to see Verstappen make a last-ditch move past him on the final lap.

"Obviously I was half surprised," he added.

"I saw him in my mirror and tried to slow down the whole thing before, the previous corners, and I thought I had enough covering on the corner, and then suddenly he was there.

"I saw in my mirror and I was a bit surprised, at that speed – I was a bit p***** off he got past me."