Max Verstappen

[RB Will]

paulguitar said:

Bas Jaski said:

paulguitar said:

Yes, overall this year's Red Bull has been the best car. It's been a bit like 2009, a huge advantage at the start of the season that then disappeared. It seems some people are forgetting what the first half of this season was like.

Not quite sure in which world 5/22(24) is half but you're free to imagine it I suppose.

He won 7 of the first 10.

Most people seem to acknowledge that the RB has not been the dominant car since Miami, so Max only had the dominant car for 5 rounds.
Since then he has won twice as many races as any other driver.
Is it still the case that since Miami or brakegate Max would still be first or 2nd in the championship anyway?

Don’t get comments like Triumph there saying let’s see how he gets on without a dominant car. Since he got in a Red Bull he has had at least a win a year and finished up the sharp end of the points table. First 5 years of that not in a championship contending car, then every year he has been in a car capable of a championship he has won it.
Think it is fairly safe to say if he is out of the top 3-5 next year the RB has basically become a Haas.

[White-Noise]

The thing with the drop off of rb pace this year, was that fez, mclaren and merc all seemed to gain ground. It seems more go me that the rb went back, rather than the other 3 teams all happened to make a jump at the same time like they would have been trying to do in any given year. Then that coincides with a rule clarification mid season.

We won't ever know the truth on this but folks will read into it what they read into it.

I guess... that rb also had to focus more on the 24 car rather than 25 in order to hold on to this year. Which is good news for a more competitive 25 season.

Some call max the best of all time I'm not sure of that but there is no doubt for me that he is the most talented to arrive for quite some time. Some rough edges, got away with too much, so he has questions to answer to get into the top tier. I think he can do it, no doubt especially as he will probably mature and become wiser as usually comes with age. I would be pleased to see that. But at present he's in the vettel sort of camp, we will then see if he moves up or not.

Ideally for that I would like to see him; win with a different team, beat a decent team mate like a wdc, push the rules to an agreed level (if the Fia can get their act together).

Be interesting to see if he wins another wdc but if he doesn't who do we see doing it? Lando maybe has 1, but I'm not seeing a new daddy on the block so hopefully it's a bit of open season for some good racing. it hinges a lot on 26.

[PhilAsia]

paulguitar said:

Bas Jaski said:

paulguitar said:

Yes, overall this year's Red Bull has been the best car. It's been a bit like 2009, a huge advantage at the start of the season that then disappeared. It seems some people are forgetting what the first half of this season was like.

Not quite sure in which world 5/22(24) is half but you're free to imagine it I suppose.

He won 7 of the first 10.

Would have been 8 of the first 10, without the dodgy "dodgy" brakes DNF!

Dealing with goldfish Paul.

Then, perhaps a mid season "semi-shakeup" to make it seem closer and...., job's a good'un!

[honda_exige]

paulguitar said:

isaldiri said:

RB Will said:

WPA said:

Yes other teams got quicker but RB slipped back massively

Didnt one of the F1 journos do an analysis that showed that RB were still up on last year and progressing this year but it was a tiny amount and everyone else had come on leaps and bounds, so RB didnt actually go backwards, just not very forwards.

yeah, no one cares about these pesky facts so it just had to be the supposed brake torque thing that was unquestionably 'cheating' because it was Red Bull.....

We don't know the whole story, but I can't think of quite such a dramatic mid-season loss of form in the past from a previously dominant constructor. So it does look a bit suspicious. Quite a lot suspicious.

Just to check, when are you saying the 'device' was removed, when was the 1st race run without it?

[paulguitar]

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

isaldiri said:

RB Will said:

WPA said:

Yes other teams got quicker but RB slipped back massively

Didnt one of the F1 journos do an analysis that showed that RB were still up on last year and progressing this year but it was a tiny amount and everyone else had come on leaps and bounds, so RB didnt actually go backwards, just not very forwards.

yeah, no one cares about these pesky facts so it just had to be the supposed brake torque thing that was unquestionably 'cheating' because it was Red Bull.....

We don't know the whole story, but I can't think of quite such a dramatic mid-season loss of form in the past from a previously dominant constructor. So it does look a bit suspicious. Quite a lot suspicious.

Just to check, when are you saying the 'device' was removed, when was the 1st race run without it?

What 'device'?

[PhilAsia]

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

isaldiri said:

RB Will said:

WPA said:

Yes other teams got quicker but RB slipped back massively

Didnt one of the F1 journos do an analysis that showed that RB were still up on last year and progressing this year but it was a tiny amount and everyone else had come on leaps and bounds, so RB didnt actually go backwards, just not very forwards.

yeah, no one cares about these pesky facts so it just had to be the supposed brake torque thing that was unquestionably 'cheating' because it was Red Bull.....

We don't know the whole story, but I can't think of quite such a dramatic mid-season loss of form in the past from a previously dominant constructor. So it does look a bit suspicious. Quite a lot suspicious.

Just to check, when are you saying the 'device' was removed, when was the 1st race run without it?

[honda_exige]

paulguitar said:

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

isaldiri said:

RB Will said:

WPA said:

Yes other teams got quicker but RB slipped back massively

Didnt one of the F1 journos do an analysis that showed that RB were still up on last year and progressing this year but it was a tiny amount and everyone else had come on leaps and bounds, so RB didnt actually go backwards, just not very forwards.

yeah, no one cares about these pesky facts so it just had to be the supposed brake torque thing that was unquestionably 'cheating' because it was Red Bull.....

We don't know the whole story, but I can't think of quite such a dramatic mid-season loss of form in the past from a previously dominant constructor. So it does look a bit suspicious. Quite a lot suspicious.

Just to check, when are you saying the 'device' was removed, when was the 1st race run without it?

What 'device'?

I dunno, some people have mentioned a 'device'. To be clear when is the 1st race that the RBR ran at after it was nerfed? Or to put it yet another way when was the 1st race that made you suspicious about their lack of form?

[PhilAsia]

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

isaldiri said:

RB Will said:

WPA said:

Yes other teams got quicker but RB slipped back massively

Didnt one of the F1 journos do an analysis that showed that RB were still up on last year and progressing this year but it was a tiny amount and everyone else had come on leaps and bounds, so RB didnt actually go backwards, just not very forwards.

yeah, no one cares about these pesky facts so it just had to be the supposed brake torque thing that was unquestionably 'cheating' because it was Red Bull.....

We don't know the whole story, but I can't think of quite such a dramatic mid-season loss of form in the past from a previously dominant constructor. So it does look a bit suspicious. Quite a lot suspicious.

Just to check, when are you saying the 'device' was removed, when was the 1st race run without it?

What 'device'?

I dunno, some people have mentioned a 'device'. To be clear when is the 1st race that the RBR ran at after it was nerfed? Or to put it yet another way when was the 1st race that made you suspicious about their lack of form?

Name a race since 2021?

[paulguitar]

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

isaldiri said:

RB Will said:

WPA said:

Yes other teams got quicker but RB slipped back massively

Didnt one of the F1 journos do an analysis that showed that RB were still up on last year and progressing this year but it was a tiny amount and everyone else had come on leaps and bounds, so RB didnt actually go backwards, just not very forwards.

yeah, no one cares about these pesky facts so it just had to be the supposed brake torque thing that was unquestionably 'cheating' because it was Red Bull.....

We don't know the whole story, but I can't think of quite such a dramatic mid-season loss of form in the past from a previously dominant constructor. So it does look a bit suspicious. Quite a lot suspicious.

Just to check, when are you saying the 'device' was removed, when was the 1st race run without it?

What 'device'?

I dunno, some people have mentioned a 'device'. To be clear when is the 1st race that the RBR ran at after it was nerfed? Or to put it yet another way when was the 1st race that made you suspicious about their lack of form?

We had a bunch of races at the start of this season where Verstappen was so dominant that here on PH he was removed from the list of potential winners in the race poll and it became a vote instead on who was going to be second. It was just assumed that Verstappen would win, so crushing was the advantage. That advantage seemed to disappear pretty much completely, and the Red Bull looked on par with the other cars. I don't know what happened and I don't think any of us do.

[EmailAddress]

I'd swear, you boys could argue about what level the Ground Floor is on.

[honda_exige]

paulguitar said:

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

isaldiri said:

RB Will said:

WPA said:

Yes other teams got quicker but RB slipped back massively

Didnt one of the F1 journos do an analysis that showed that RB were still up on last year and progressing this year but it was a tiny amount and everyone else had come on leaps and bounds, so RB didnt actually go backwards, just not very forwards.

yeah, no one cares about these pesky facts so it just had to be the supposed brake torque thing that was unquestionably 'cheating' because it was Red Bull.....

We don't know the whole story, but I can't think of quite such a dramatic mid-season loss of form in the past from a previously dominant constructor. So it does look a bit suspicious. Quite a lot suspicious.

Just to check, when are you saying the 'device' was removed, when was the 1st race run without it?

What 'device'?

I dunno, some people have mentioned a 'device'. To be clear when is the 1st race that the RBR ran at after it was nerfed? Or to put it yet another way when was the 1st race that made you suspicious about their lack of form?

We had a bunch of races at the start of this season where Verstappen was so dominant that here on PH he was removed from the list of potential winners in the race poll and it became a vote instead on who was going to be second. It was just assumed that Verstappen would win, so crushing was the advantage. That advantage seemed to disappear pretty much completely, and the Red Bull looked on par with the other cars. I don't know what happened and I don't think any of us do.

People keep saying how quick the fall off was, that it was too quick to be explained by the development of the rest, so picking a race should be easy.

Did the dominance gradually decrease over the 1st 7 races he won?

[paulguitar]

EmailAddress said:

I'd swear, you boys could argue about what level the Ground Floor is on.

I'm not arguing with anyone. Just observing that such a big shift in competitivity was unusual.

[PhilAsia]

EmailAddress said:

I'd swear, you boys could argue about what level the Ground Floor is on.

In Philippines it is the first floor...

[PhilAsia]

honda_exige said:

People keep saying how quick the fall off was, that it was too quick to be explained by the development of the rest, so picking a race should be easy.

Did the dominance gradually decrease over the 1st 7 races he won?

It was between the second and third gear change, exiting the fifth corner of the seventh race in practice three...Oh, and on his first run.

[PhilAsia]

paulguitar said:

EmailAddress said:

I'd swear, you boys could argue about what level the Ground Floor is on.

I'm not arguing with anyone. Just observing that such a big shift in competitivity was unusual.

Yep. Some are in a whole bowl of forgetfulness. Yet, when it is not Max or Red Bull...

[Forester1965]

The Red Bull changed at Miami. Despite winning the next race at San Marino, it was by a whisker and surrounded by complaints the car suddenly couldn't handle bumps. Remember Max constantly understeering completely off the circuit. Remember the panic test of the 2022 car.

I suspect there's been a lot going behind the scenes with many of the teams and the FIA, some of which reaches us and some doesn't.

What is very clear is that up until China Red Bull were in a league of their own again and after it they no longer had the best overall package at any particular race weekend.

[732NM]

EmailAddress said:

I'd swear, you boys could argue about what level the Ground Floor is on.

Isn't that adjustable in parc ferme?

Oh bugger, another advantage removed.

[MustangGT]

732NM said:

EmailAddress said:

I'd swear, you boys could argue about what level the Ground Floor is on.

Isn't that adjustable in parc ferme?

Oh bugger, another advantage removed.

Excellent!

[PhilAsia]

MustangGT said:

732NM said:

EmailAddress said:

I'd swear, you boys could argue about what level the Ground Floor is on.

Isn't that adjustable in parc ferme?

Oh bugger, another advantage removed.

Excellent!

plus 1.... sublime!

[epom]

EmailAddress said:

epom said:

The amount of former World Champions on here slating Lando's mentality is hilarious.

Most people here have watched way more minutes of racing than Lando has participated in.

You don't need to get your boots dirty to Manage.

Crikey, watched racing ? well that's that settled so then. Sorry Lando, you are a flop.