Max Verstappen

Max Verstappen

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Discussion

HighwayStar

3,358 posts

109 months

Tuesday 20th April
quotequote all
MustangGT said:
sparta6 said:
sandman77 said:
sparta6 said:
Sure. But in all other sports teams are allowed to practice and develop.

In this instance Mercedes had a massive head start and other teams were prohibited from catching up.
Mercedes didn’t have a head start at all. They were given the exact same info at the same time as all the other teams.
Merc had been developing its Hybrid for 7 years.

What about the other teams ?
Proof please, otherwise it is in your private universe.
Why ask, he never justifies anything or provides proof... he’ll just move on to his next outlandish claim, ignoring your request.
It’s all in his mind, poor fella.

VladD

7,471 posts

230 months

Tuesday 20th April
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
davidd said:
thebigmacmoomin said:
Including a half spin on the red flag restart.
I really thought Charles LC should have overtaken him.
I read that as Verstappen still had a wheel on the track, then any pass wouldn't have counted.


In retrospect, because it's always easy after the fact, he should have floored it and then could have given the place back later if ordered to by the stewards.

Also, I don't know what the rules are if Max had spun 180 but remained on track. Would everybody have to stop and wait for him to get going again? I wouldn't have though so, I'd imagine you're allowed to pass another car if it's in distress.



Edited by VladD on Tuesday 20th April 15:31

kiseca

8,910 posts

184 months

Tuesday 20th April
quotequote all
VladD said:
HTP99 said:
davidd said:
thebigmacmoomin said:
Including a half spin on the red flag restart.
I really thought Charles LC should have overtaken him.
I read that as Verstappen still had a wheel on the track, then any pass wouldn't have counted.


In retrospect, because it's always easy after the fact, he should have floored it and then could have given the place back later if ordered to by the stewards.

Also, I don't know what the rules are if Max had spun 180 but remained on track. Would everybody have to stop and wait for him to get going again? I wouldn't have though so, I'd imagine you're allowed to pass another car if it's in distress.



Edited by VladD on Tuesday 20th April 15:31
I was also surprised that LeClerc actually stood on the brakes to stay behind him when just momentum was enough to carry him past. It would have been easier to pass him than not to. And yeah, give it back after checking. It was spur of the moment of course but I think he could have legitimately taken the place. Esp after Checo lost a couple when he went off circuit (well, he was supposed to lose them at least)

HardtopManual

1,589 posts

131 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
Charlie Clark had two options:

1) Go past, taking the lead, risking a penalty (we all know how crap the stewarding is) and likely getting overtaken again anyway.

2) Stay where he is, with no risk of taking a penalty that could potentially drop him down the order.

I think he did the right thing.

Muzzer79

4,655 posts

152 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
sandman77 said:
sparta6 said:
Sure. But in all other sports teams are allowed to practice and develop.

In this instance Mercedes had a massive head start and other teams were prohibited from catching up.
Mercedes didn’t have a head start at all. They were given the exact same info at the same time as all the other teams.
Merc had been developing its Hybrid for 7 years.

What about the other teams ?
Considering the hybrid regulations were only finalised in 2011 and went live in 2014, you're telling us that Mercedes have invented a time machine.
This is far more impressive than anything they've done on track.

jester

sparta6

2,538 posts

65 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
sparta6 said:
sandman77 said:
sparta6 said:
Sure. But in all other sports teams are allowed to practice and develop.

In this instance Mercedes had a massive head start and other teams were prohibited from catching up.
Mercedes didn’t have a head start at all. They were given the exact same info at the same time as all the other teams.
Merc had been developing its Hybrid for 7 years.

What about the other teams ?
Considering the hybrid regulations were only finalised in 2011 and went live in 2014, you're telling us that Mercedes have invented a time machine.
This is far more impressive than anything they've done on track.

jester
Your conclusion is based on limited information.

You'll need to drill deeper than that to reveal Mercedes actual PU development timeline wink



sparta6

2,538 posts

65 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
MustangGT said:
sparta6 said:
sandman77 said:
sparta6 said:
Sure. But in all other sports teams are allowed to practice and develop.

In this instance Mercedes had a massive head start and other teams were prohibited from catching up.
Mercedes didn’t have a head start at all. They were given the exact same info at the same time as all the other teams.
Merc had been developing its Hybrid for 7 years.

What about the other teams ?
Proof please, otherwise it is in your private universe.
Blimey !

Do you really need to be spoon-fed information due to an inability to conduct your own research ?

How old are you ? Serious question.


Muzzer79

4,655 posts

152 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Muzzer79 said:
sparta6 said:
sandman77 said:
sparta6 said:
Sure. But in all other sports teams are allowed to practice and develop.

In this instance Mercedes had a massive head start and other teams were prohibited from catching up.
Mercedes didn’t have a head start at all. They were given the exact same info at the same time as all the other teams.
Merc had been developing its Hybrid for 7 years.

What about the other teams ?
Considering the hybrid regulations were only finalised in 2011 and went live in 2014, you're telling us that Mercedes have invented a time machine.
This is far more impressive than anything they've done on track.

jester
Your conclusion is based on limited information.

You'll need to drill deeper than that to reveal Mercedes actual PU development timeline wink
You're the one who said it was 7 years in development - you have obviously drilled deeper, so share the information with us all.

It's a recurring theme of your posts that you make a dubious claim and then ask people to substantiate it for you.

A comparison would be me claiming that The Queen is a lizard and then telling you to research it to find the evidence why.....

Back up your bullst.


Mr_Thyroid

1,977 posts

192 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
VladD said:


In retrospect, because it's always easy after the fact, he should have floored it and then could have given the place back later if ordered to by the stewards.

Also, I don't know what the rules are if Max had spun 180 but remained on track. Would everybody have to stop and wait for him to get going again? I wouldn't have though so, I'd imagine you're allowed to pass another car if it's in distress.



Edited by VladD on Tuesday 20th April 15:31
Leclerc was having radio issues and didn't find out it was a rolling start until late in the lap. At this point he may well have still been under the impression they were heading for a standing start in which case Verstappen would've been able to regain his position unless he went all the way to the back.

kiseca

8,910 posts

184 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Blimey !

Do you really need to be spoon-fed information due to an inability to conduct your own research ?

How old are you ? Serious question.
You made the claim. Back it up or shut up.

HighwayStar

3,358 posts

109 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
kiseca said:
sparta6 said:
Blimey !

Do you really need to be spoon-fed information due to an inability to conduct your own research ?

How old are you ? Serious question.
You made the claim. Back it up or shut up.
If he had the goods to back it up he’d be posting it right here.
He’s got nothing but what’s in his mind.

MustangGT

8,829 posts

245 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
MustangGT said:
sparta6 said:
sandman77 said:
sparta6 said:
Sure. But in all other sports teams are allowed to practice and develop.

In this instance Mercedes had a massive head start and other teams were prohibited from catching up.
Mercedes didn’t have a head start at all. They were given the exact same info at the same time as all the other teams.
Merc had been developing its Hybrid for 7 years.

What about the other teams ?
Proof please, otherwise it is in your private universe.
Blimey !

Do you really need to be spoon-fed information due to an inability to conduct your own research ?

How old are you ? Serious question.
I have conducted my own research and it is not in alignment with your universe. Mercedes started development of a road hybrid PU at roughly the time you are talking about, not a specific F1 race development.

Do you really think a company would invest tens of millions developing a race engine for a non-defined formula in the hopes that they got the specification 100% correct years in advance?


Really?



As for how old I am? I watched my first F1 race in the early 1970's and have been driving for coming up for 45 years.

LucyP

579 posts

24 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Considering the hybrid regulations were only finalised in 2011 and went live in 2014, you're telling us that Mercedes have invented a time machine.
This is far more impressive than anything they've done on track.

jester
Why are you even arguing about this. This is where the rumour came from that Mercedes had been developing the engine since 2007 - Lauda via Montezemolo, not someone on PH who refuses to reveal his sources. He hasn't but I will do it for him.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01/montezemol...

Of course they didn't know in 2007 or 2011 what the rules would be exactly, but as Mercedes themselves say, they have been developing it since 2007!

"The beginnings of the hybrid era in Formula One date back all the way to 2007" and;
"While it's more advanced and more powerful than the 2009 KERS, the basic principle is similar."

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2019/08/eq-p...

Yes they did most of the work in 2013 for the 2014 season, and no there was not some engine in 2007 or 2011 or whenever that sat, waiting, on the shelf, ready to go for 2014, but all the groundwork and the continual development had been ongoing since 2007 and it all came together in 2013 for 2014, so stop arguing.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-incredible-orig...

It is obvious that they did so much groundwork for so long, because of how competitive they have been. If they had not, then they would have been like Honda when they first came back into the hybrid era.


RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

12,195 posts

60 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
VladD said:


In retrospect, because it's always easy after the fact, he should have floored it and then could have given the place back later if ordered to by the stewards.

Also, I don't know what the rules are if Max had spun 180 but remained on track. Would everybody have to stop and wait for him to get going again? I wouldn't have though so, I'd imagine you're allowed to pass another car if it's in distress.



Edited by VladD on Tuesday 20th April 15:31
Leclerc was having radio issues and didn't find out it was a rolling start until late in the lap. At this point he may well have still been under the impression they were heading for a standing start in which case Verstappen would've been able to regain his position unless he went all the way to the back.
I think when asked Masi said because it was effectively the parade lap, had Verstappen been passed, he would have been able to reclaim the position so long as it was before the safety car line.

Muzzer79

4,655 posts

152 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
LucyP said:
Muzzer79 said:
Considering the hybrid regulations were only finalised in 2011 and went live in 2014, you're telling us that Mercedes have invented a time machine.
This is far more impressive than anything they've done on track.

jester
Why are you even arguing about this. This is where the rumour came from that Mercedes had been developing the engine since 2007 - Lauda via Montezemolo, not someone on PH who refuses to reveal his sources. He hasn't but I will do it for him.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01/montezemol...

Of course they didn't know in 2007 or 2011 what the rules would be exactly, but as Mercedes themselves say, they have been developing it since 2007!

"The beginnings of the hybrid era in Formula One date back all the way to 2007" and;
"While it's more advanced and more powerful than the 2009 KERS, the basic principle is similar."

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2019/08/eq-p...

Yes they did most of the work in 2013 for the 2014 season, and no there was not some engine in 2007 or 2011 or whenever that sat, waiting, on the shelf, ready to go for 2014, but all the groundwork and the continual development had been ongoing since 2007 and it all came together in 2013 for 2014, so stop arguing.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-incredible-orig...

It is obvious that they did so much groundwork for so long, because of how competitive they have been. If they had not, then they would have been like Honda when they first came back into the hybrid era.
This is laughable

The insinuation from the anti-Hamilton was that Mercedes had some kind of head start or unfair advantage on everyone else with the hybrid era.

I clarified that the rules were only finalised in 2011.

You have then cited articles linking the engine to KERS, etc but you seem to be missing the point

Ferrari & Renault both produced hybrid powertrains and were both in Formula One during the 2000s and 2010s.

Mercedes have done nothing that the other manufacturers couldn't have.

Indeed, your first article states:

"FIA chief Jean Todt said at the time, “Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari knew for five years what engines they would need to use this year. Mercedes has simply done a better job. Such is motor sport.”

Back in your box.

vaud

40,122 posts

120 months

Wednesday 21st April
quotequote all
I got the impression that Mercedes just invested much more ahead of 2014 than the others and so ended up with a better powerplant.

sparta6

2,538 posts

65 months

Thursday 22nd April
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
sparta6 said:
Blimey !

Do you really need to be spoon-fed information due to an inability to conduct your own research ?

How old are you ? Serious question.
You made the claim. Back it up or shut up.
If he had the goods to back it up he’d be posting it right here.
He’s got nothing but what’s in his mind.
I assumed this forum was populated by well connected and well read participants. Oh well hehe

For the uninitiated and lazy PH peeps, here's a starter for ten

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01/montezemol...



HighwayStar

3,358 posts

109 months

Thursday 22nd April
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
sparta6 said:
Blimey !

Do you really need to be spoon-fed information due to an inability to conduct your own research ?

How old are you ? Serious question.
You made the claim. Back it up or shut up.
If he had the goods to back it up he’d be posting it right here.
He’s got nothing but what’s in his mind.
I assumed this forum was populated by well connected and well read participants. Oh well hehe

For the uninitiated and lazy PH peeps, here's a starter for ten

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01/montezemol...
Wow... anything to push your agenda.

“ FIA chief Jean Todt said at the time, “Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari knew for five years what engines they would need to use this year. Mercedes has simply done a better job. Such is motor sport.”

So what were Renault and Ferrari up to in those 5yrs?

Plus Ferrari were busy vetoing the original plan to use V4 because they wanted to go V6.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/f1/finally-engine-regu...

The bottom line is Merc did a better job which they wouldn’t have known until they went racing. Honda struggled at the start but look where they are now. Says a lot about Ferrari and Renault’s ability to develop to the Hybrid rules.




Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 22 April 16:32

Sandpit Steve

2,759 posts

39 months

Thursday 22nd April
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
think when asked Masi said because it was effectively the parade lap, had Verstappen been passed, he would have been able to reclaim the position so long as it was before the safety car line.
If CLC had ‘gone’ as soon as Max was off the track, Max would have had the same penalty as Kimi (10s stop/go, commuted to 30s race time) if he’d not entered the pit lane and put himself to the back.

Charles had a split second to make the call and IMO called it safe but wrong. If it had been LH and VB behind, they’d almost certainly have ‘gone’ as soon as MV was not in total control of his car. Max would probably have got the pit lane penalty as well, which would have made for quite the discussions after the race.

Muzzer79

4,655 posts

152 months

Thursday 22nd April
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
HighwayStar said:
kiseca said:
sparta6 said:
Blimey !

Do you really need to be spoon-fed information due to an inability to conduct your own research ?

How old are you ? Serious question.
You made the claim. Back it up or shut up.
If he had the goods to back it up he’d be posting it right here.
He’s got nothing but what’s in his mind.
I assumed this forum was populated by well connected and well read participants. Oh well hehe

For the uninitiated and lazy PH peeps, here's a starter for ten

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02/01/montezemol...
Please point out where in that article it supports your following assertation regarding hybrid engines:

sparta6 said:
In this instance Mercedes had a massive head start and other teams were prohibited from catching up.