Lando Norris

[Sandpit Steve]

Likes Fast Cars said:

When did he not cheat? Lying double crossing cheating POS.

Most recently when brake testing George Russell in Australia this year, and most historically when sitting in his pit box for half a minute with Hamilton waiting behind him back in 2007. And he definitely, absolutely, knew nothing about Nelson Piquet Jr’s deliberate crash in Singapore, despite his pit strategy being otherwise totally implausible.

[vaud]

I suspect he didn’t know the details about Singapore.

They probably told him “gambling on a safety car” rather than “your team mate will crash into the wall”

[Likes Fast Cars]

Sandpit Steve said:

Likes Fast Cars said:

When did he not cheat? Lying double crossing cheating POS.

Most recently when brake testing George Russell in Australia this year, and most historically when sitting in his pit box for half a minute with Hamilton waiting behind him back in 2007. And he definitely, absolutely, knew nothing about Nelson Piquet Jr’s deliberate crash in Singapore, despite his pit strategy being otherwise totally implausible.

Exactly.

[Likes Fast Cars]

vaud said:

I suspect he didn’t know the details about Singapore.

They probably told him “gambling on a safety car” rather than “your team mate will crash into the wall”

I wouldn’t be so sure, where there’s smoke there’s fire. But we’ll never know for certain.

[MustangGT]

Presuming Ed said:

Is this a joke site now? Russell, Lando and Leclerc and top draw and to suggest Max is sub tier 2, give your head a wobble. Any team would fight for all those drivers and if Max became available even Ferrari would consider replacing Leclerc or Hamilton to fit him in.

Too many people suggest Lando is past it because Piastri's had a better race or Russell's crap because his cars too light or Leclerc's not world class because he's a little emotional.

I stand by my assessment. As stated Max is extremely fast, but, he has no idea how to race fairly, until he does he is a sub-par driver. Simple as that.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

MustangGT said:

I stand by my assessment. As stated Max is extremely fast, but, he has no idea how to race fairly, until he does he is a sub-par driver. Simple as that.

on that basis then Senna is a sub par driver.

[paulguitar]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

MustangGT said:

I stand by my assessment. As stated Max is extremely fast, but, he has no idea how to race fairly, until he does he is a sub-par driver. Simple as that.

on that basis then Senna is a sub par driver.

Senna had some well-documented incidents but was more than capable of racing fairly, and usually did so. Verstappen seems to have more consistent wheel-to-wheel issues. The collisions with Norris and Hamilton this year suggest he may be unable to resolve this, but he is still young so who knows?

[maz8062]

Likes Fast Cars said:

maz8062 said:

Mate, what are you going on about? I’ve been watching F1 for over 40 years and can’t remember ….

Old git!

Not that old but I’ve seen a lot of WDC’s over the years, from Senna at Toleman to LH/Mika at McLaren, Schumacher at Jordan, Alonso at Minardi, Vettel/Button at Williams etc. There is always a trend in F1, fast drivers are fast from the off. Very rarely do they get faster as the pressure and weight of expectation increases.

Webber for example, was very fast at Minardi and Jaguar back in the day and could have picked up a WDC in 2010 but ultimately bottled it. It’s not just about raw speed, it’s about managing tyres,
pressure from the media, your team mate - day in day out.

The pressure on Lando is through the roof compared to OP. They analyse everything he says, his starts, his driving etc. OP doesn’t have any of that; he’s driving with freedom and very little expectation as long as he is at least close to Lando. The pressure on Lando is similar to what LH used to go through.

OP may come good one day but is he faster than GR, Charles, Lando, Albon, Max; all drivers that have experience huge pressure in F1 compared to OP? I haven’t seen it so far.

[CanAm]

maz8062 said:

Mate, what are you going on about? I’ve been watching F1 for over 40 years ......

Only 40 years? Young upstart!

[Presuming Ed]

The Piastri vs Norris situation is an interesting one. A lot of people seem to think OP is faster, has the edge over Lando with no evidence of this being the case. Piastri has shown a large improvement as the year has gone on and probably for the first time was quicker in Italy but one battle won isn't winning the war. i agree OP has more to offer then he is showing now but can't discount Norris raw speed.

[isaldiri]

vaud said:

I suspect he didn’t know the details about Singapore.

They probably told him “gambling on a safety car” rather than “your team mate will crash into the wall”

I suspect if he didn't outright know then it was merely for bare-faced plausible deniability. IMO there is no way Alonso didn't (strongly) suspect something was being cooked up by Briatore and co for the race.... He's still always been a superlative driver (and to my mind the best of his time who ruined his chances at far more championships for any number of non driving related reasons) but Brundle's use of 'Teflonso' years ago was pretty much spot on.

[anonymous_user]

Presuming Ed said:

The Piastri vs Norris situation is an interesting one. A lot of people seem to think OP is faster, has the edge over Lando with no evidence of this being the case. Piastri has shown a large improvement as the year has gone on and probably for the first time was quicker in Italy but one battle won isn't winning the war. i agree OP has more to offer then he is showing now but can't discount Norris raw speed.

not sure he is faster (yet) ...but his form over the last 4-5 races suggests he's now matching Lando (iirc both have scored 85pts from the last 5 races)

lot depends on the next 8 races, but if Piastri continues the trajectory he's on, he could quite legitimately claim to be the better prospect at McLaren- which probably explains why he's now got his elbows out

[Mark13]

PhilAsia said:

Mark13 said:

...there are probably 6 top notch drivers (not an absolute number)...

IIRC, minus 6 and 6 are absolute numbers. Been several decades since I was at school though.

It is just an approximation. Could be 6, 7 or in a bad year 3 or 4.

Probably better saying:

Top notch drivers
Middle Order drivers (some at their peak, others on the way down or relatively new and could make the top)
Renta drivers

[Hustle_]

anonymous_user said:

Presuming Ed said:

The Piastri vs Norris situation is an interesting one. A lot of people seem to think OP is faster, has the edge over Lando with no evidence of this being the case. Piastri has shown a large improvement as the year has gone on and probably for the first time was quicker in Italy but one battle won isn't winning the war. i agree OP has more to offer then he is showing now but can't discount Norris raw speed.

not sure he is faster (yet) ...but his form over the last 4-5 races suggests he's now matching Lando (iirc both have scored 85pts from the last 5 races)

lot depends on the next 8 races, but if Piastri continues the trajectory he's on, he could quite legitimately claim to be the better prospect at McLaren- which probably explains why he's now got his elbows out

I agree with Presuming Ed. Last 8 races include a 25 point loss for Lando when Max punted him off and run him off the circuit in Austria.

Piastri has had the measure of Norris over a full weekend a couple of times now and people are getting carried away saying Norris is washed.

[Diderot]

Hustle_ said:

anonymous_user said:

Presuming Ed said:

The Piastri vs Norris situation is an interesting one. A lot of people seem to think OP is faster, has the edge over Lando with no evidence of this being the case. Piastri has shown a large improvement as the year has gone on and probably for the first time was quicker in Italy but one battle won isn't winning the war. i agree OP has more to offer then he is showing now but can't discount Norris raw speed.

not sure he is faster (yet) ...but his form over the last 4-5 races suggests he's now matching Lando (iirc both have scored 85pts from the last 5 races)

lot depends on the next 8 races, but if Piastri continues the trajectory he's on, he could quite legitimately claim to be the better prospect at McLaren- which probably explains why he's now got his elbows out

I agree with Presuming Ed. Last 8 races include a 25 point loss for Lando when Max punted him off and run him off the circuit in Austria.

Piastri has had the measure of Norris over a full weekend a couple of times now and people are getting carried away saying Norris is washed.

Okaaayyy. Look at the stats for this season, let alone last season. Look at the finishing deltas when Oscar is (mostly as usual) behind Lando - it’s embarrassingly large. Do I need to reiterate those deltas for the gaslighted? The obverse is very close however; cf Monza. Maybe next year Oscar can compete, but until then he needs to step in line, if he doesn’t, then maybe he would be better off at Alpine where he could bang wheels with Gasly.

[anonymous_user]

Diderot said:

Okaaayyy. Look at the stats for this season, let alone last season. Look at the finishing deltas when Oscar is (mostly as usual) behind Lando - it’s embarrassingly large. Do I need to reiterate those deltas for the gaslighted? The obverse is very close however; cf Monza. Maybe next year Oscar can compete, but until then he needs to step in line, if he doesn’t, then maybe he would be better off at Alpine where he could bang wheels with Gasly.

the gaslit reckon Lando is in with a title shot

[DOCG]

Diderot said:

Hustle_ said:

anonymous_user said:

Presuming Ed said:

The Piastri vs Norris situation is an interesting one. A lot of people seem to think OP is faster, has the edge over Lando with no evidence of this being the case. Piastri has shown a large improvement as the year has gone on and probably for the first time was quicker in Italy but one battle won isn't winning the war. i agree OP has more to offer then he is showing now but can't discount Norris raw speed.

not sure he is faster (yet) ...but his form over the last 4-5 races suggests he's now matching Lando (iirc both have scored 85pts from the last 5 races)

lot depends on the next 8 races, but if Piastri continues the trajectory he's on, he could quite legitimately claim to be the better prospect at McLaren- which probably explains why he's now got his elbows out

I agree with Presuming Ed. Last 8 races include a 25 point loss for Lando when Max punted him off and run him off the circuit in Austria.

Piastri has had the measure of Norris over a full weekend a couple of times now and people are getting carried away saying Norris is washed.

Okaaayyy. Look at the stats for this season, let alone last season. Look at the finishing deltas when Oscar is (mostly as usual) behind Lando - it’s embarrassingly large. Do I need to reiterate those deltas for the gaslighted? The obverse is very close however; cf Monza. Maybe next year Oscar can compete, but until then he needs to step in line, if he doesn’t, then maybe he would be better off at Alpine where he could bang wheels with Gasly.

You are only defending Lando Norris because he races under the British flag. The stupid thing is that Piastri is just as British as Norris is (one fully British and a non-British parent).

[Hustle_]

[maz8062]

DOCG said:

You are only defending Lando Norris because he races under the British flag. The stupid thing is that Piastri is just as British as Norris is (one fully British and a non-British parent).

Piastri is an unassuming character. Likeable, inoffensive. What’s not to like, right? He also has a good racing pedigree having won at various junior formulae including F2. He is thus highly rated and rightly so. But the facts are the facts - Lando is quicker. There’s nothing wrong in that - there’s been many an F2 champion that has stepped up to F1 and struggled against the best drivers in the world. Such is life.

The fear for Webber and Piastri is that if Lando wins a WDC, he’ll step up a notch, not only in confidence but in the eyes of other TP’s in and around the paddock. He will join the champions club joining LH, Nando, Max at the top of the pile. OP will do everything in his power to try and sabotage it even if it means falling out with management.

McLaren have a tough choice on their hands. Logic dictates backing Lando but it’s not as simple as that and I’m not sure OP will comply anyway.

[Diderot]

DOCG said:

Diderot said:

Hustle_ said:

anonymous_user said:

Presuming Ed said:

The Piastri vs Norris situation is an interesting one. A lot of people seem to think OP is faster, has the edge over Lando with no evidence of this being the case. Piastri has shown a large improvement as the year has gone on and probably for the first time was quicker in Italy but one battle won isn't winning the war. i agree OP has more to offer then he is showing now but can't discount Norris raw speed.

not sure he is faster (yet) ...but his form over the last 4-5 races suggests he's now matching Lando (iirc both have scored 85pts from the last 5 races)

lot depends on the next 8 races, but if Piastri continues the trajectory he's on, he could quite legitimately claim to be the better prospect at McLaren- which probably explains why he's now got his elbows out

I agree with Presuming Ed. Last 8 races include a 25 point loss for Lando when Max punted him off and run him off the circuit in Austria.

Piastri has had the measure of Norris over a full weekend a couple of times now and people are getting carried away saying Norris is washed.

Okaaayyy. Look at the stats for this season, let alone last season. Look at the finishing deltas when Oscar is (mostly as usual) behind Lando - it’s embarrassingly large. Do I need to reiterate those deltas for the gaslighted? The obverse is very close however; cf Monza. Maybe next year Oscar can compete, but until then he needs to step in line, if he doesn’t, then maybe he would be better off at Alpine where he could bang wheels with Gasly.

You are only defending Lando Norris because he races under the British flag. The stupid thing is that Piastri is just as British as Norris is (one fully British and a non-British parent).

Er, no. The stats don’t lie unless you cannot interpret them, or ignore them. ETA, I’m Irish darling.

Edited by Diderot on Thursday 5th September 21:58