Discussion
DOCG said:
You are only defending Lando Norris because he races under the British flag. The stupid thing is that Piastri is just as British as Norris is (one fully British and a non-British parent).
Piastri is an unassuming character. Likeable, inoffensive. What’s not to like, right? He also has a good racing pedigree having won at various junior formulae including F2. He is thus highly rated and rightly so. But the facts are the facts - Lando is quicker. There’s nothing wrong in that - there’s been many an F2 champion that has stepped up to F1 and struggled against the best drivers in the world. Such is life. The fear for Webber and Piastri is that if Lando wins a WDC, he’ll step up a notch, not only in confidence but in the eyes of other TP’s in and around the paddock. He will join the champions club joining LH, Nando, Max at the top of the pile. OP will do everything in his power to try and sabotage it even if it means falling out with management.
McLaren have a tough choice on their hands. Logic dictates backing Lando but it’s not as simple as that and I’m not sure OP will comply anyway.
As a Lewis supporter I have no interest in who beats who at McLaren.
However, I fully agree with others that McLaren have not been looking at the season picture. Lando is the only driver in with a chance of beating Max to the WDC, therefore they should favour him with team orders. Hungary was daft, costing a 7 point deficit for Lando. Italy was worse. Oscar cost the team WCC points, they stood a good chance of the 1-2 there. Instead, Oscar overtook and compromised Lando's corner approach allowing Charles to overtake. McLaren should have had 44 points, instead they have 34, 10 less than the likely outcome. It has also cost Lando another 10 point deficit in the WDC. Oscar should have been instructed to be the wingman from Hungary on.
However, I fully agree with others that McLaren have not been looking at the season picture. Lando is the only driver in with a chance of beating Max to the WDC, therefore they should favour him with team orders. Hungary was daft, costing a 7 point deficit for Lando. Italy was worse. Oscar cost the team WCC points, they stood a good chance of the 1-2 there. Instead, Oscar overtook and compromised Lando's corner approach allowing Charles to overtake. McLaren should have had 44 points, instead they have 34, 10 less than the likely outcome. It has also cost Lando another 10 point deficit in the WDC. Oscar should have been instructed to be the wingman from Hungary on.
Lando was slower in Hungary, the only reason he was ahead was because the team gave him a favourable pit stop, to help him maintain his position against his competitors in other teams, knowing Oscar was not going to lose out as a result.
The arguments about that during the race from Lando showed his lack of maturity, or it was all a false drama to spice up the show.
Based on his demeanor post race, it was a false drama.
Monza was the wake up call for the team, I'll be surprised if they don't play a safe team game now.
The arguments about that during the race from Lando showed his lack of maturity, or it was all a false drama to spice up the show.
Based on his demeanor post race, it was a false drama.
Monza was the wake up call for the team, I'll be surprised if they don't play a safe team game now.
732NM said:
Lando was slower in Hungary, the only reason he was ahead was because the team gave him a favourable pit stop, to help him maintain his position against his competitors in other teams, knowing Oscar was not going to lose out as a result.
If Oscar hadn’t gone off track on his in lap then he’d have exited the pits still in the lead. shirt said:
732NM said:
Lando was slower in Hungary, the only reason he was ahead was because the team gave him a favourable pit stop, to help him maintain his position against his competitors in other teams, knowing Oscar was not going to lose out as a result.
If Oscar hadn’t gone off track on his in lap then he’d have exited the pits still in the lead. Diderot said:
Hustle_ said:
anonymous_user said:
Presuming Ed said:
The Piastri vs Norris situation is an interesting one. A lot of people seem to think OP is faster, has the edge over Lando with no evidence of this being the case. Piastri has shown a large improvement as the year has gone on and probably for the first time was quicker in Italy but one battle won isn't winning the war. i agree OP has more to offer then he is showing now but can't discount Norris raw speed.
not sure he is faster (yet) ...but his form over the last 4-5 races suggests he's now matching Lando (iirc both have scored 85pts from the last 5 races)lot depends on the next 8 races, but if Piastri continues the trajectory he's on, he could quite legitimately claim to be the better prospect at McLaren- which probably explains why he's now got his elbows out
Piastri has had the measure of Norris over a full weekend a couple of times now and people are getting carried away saying Norris is washed.
Look at the stats for this season, let alone last season. Look at the finishing deltas when Oscar is (mostly as usual) behind Lando - it’s embarrassingly large. Do I need to reiterate those deltas for the gaslighted? The obverse is very close however; cf Monza. Maybe next year Oscar can compete, but until then he needs to step in line, if he doesn’t, then maybe he would be better off at Alpine where he could bang wheels with Gasly. Hustle_ said:
Diderot said:
Hustle_ said:
anonymous_user said:
Presuming Ed said:
The Piastri vs Norris situation is an interesting one. A lot of people seem to think OP is faster, has the edge over Lando with no evidence of this being the case. Piastri has shown a large improvement as the year has gone on and probably for the first time was quicker in Italy but one battle won isn't winning the war. i agree OP has more to offer then he is showing now but can't discount Norris raw speed.
not sure he is faster (yet) ...but his form over the last 4-5 races suggests he's now matching Lando (iirc both have scored 85pts from the last 5 races)lot depends on the next 8 races, but if Piastri continues the trajectory he's on, he could quite legitimately claim to be the better prospect at McLaren- which probably explains why he's now got his elbows out
Piastri has had the measure of Norris over a full weekend a couple of times now and people are getting carried away saying Norris is washed.
Look at the stats for this season, let alone last season. Look at the finishing deltas when Oscar is (mostly as usual) behind Lando - it’s embarrassingly large. Do I need to reiterate those deltas for the gaslighted? The obverse is very close however; cf Monza. Maybe next year Oscar can compete, but until then he needs to step in line, if he doesn’t, then maybe he would be better off at Alpine where he could bang wheels with Gasly. isaldiri said:
shirt said:
732NM said:
Lando was slower in Hungary, the only reason he was ahead was because the team gave him a favourable pit stop, to help him maintain his position against his competitors in other teams, knowing Oscar was not going to lose out as a result.
If Oscar hadn’t gone off track on his in lap then he’d have exited the pits still in the lead. My point being, it was OP’s mistake that brought the change in position, not the order of the stops themselves.
shirt said:
isaldiri said:
shirt said:
732NM said:
Lando was slower in Hungary, the only reason he was ahead was because the team gave him a favourable pit stop, to help him maintain his position against his competitors in other teams, knowing Oscar was not going to lose out as a result.
If Oscar hadn’t gone off track on his in lap then he’d have exited the pits still in the lead. My point being, it was OP’s mistake that brought the change in position, not the order of the stops themselves.
For all the likely and well thought out explanations regarding tactics and team dynamics. I think the most likely outcome is that Lando is in fact a lizard wearing a human costume and Oscar is not. McLaren have found this out and are now trying to manage the situation accordingly.
It would explain almost everything.
It would explain almost everything.
shirt said:
That’s not the point I was making. Mclaren strategy was to give Lando first service (to cover le clerc?) knowing OP would retain the lead. In the second round of stops OP made a mistake meaning this was no longer the case. I can see how Lando then thought it was fair game, even though I disagree with his petulance in perusing it counter to what was being said on the radio.
My point being, it was OP’s mistake that brought the change in position, not the order of the stops themselves.
Well Piastri was still the race leader post mistake and therefore would retain preference in strategy. Even if the original idea was to get Norris in and out early without undercutting Piastri, the latter had track position and that gave him to right to be called in first so as to not get undercut by his team-mate. It's not track position such that you cannot be undercut that gives the leading driver preference.....My point being, it was OP’s mistake that brought the change in position, not the order of the stops themselves.
cliffords said:
For all the likely and well thought out explanations regarding tactics and team dynamics. I think the most likely outcome is that Lando is in fact a lizard wearing a human costume and Oscar is not. McLaren have found this out and are now trying to manage the situation accordingly.
It would explain almost everything.
It would explain almost everything.
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