Lando Norris

[Harry H]

He does look like the complete package to me.

Likeable
Great qualifier
Great racer
Rarely makes mistakes
Great with the media.

Just needs the opportunity in a top seat. Looks like Ferrari have their team set for a few years. Red Bull and Cheko may well fall out at some point. It is Red Bull after all and Hamilton can't go on forever.

I hope he gets a shot in a winning car as he would be an excellent ambassador for the sport.

[liner33]

Jake899 said:

But who? To be a world champ you need to dominate your team mate and force them to build the team around you, a la Verstappen.
Ferrari wouldn't do that, they can't decide on what's for tea, and Mercedes have already bet the farm on Russell. I can see Lando perhaps replacing Hamilton when he retires, but the team will back Russell to be their number one, and they should, he's earning that right as we speak. No one has a shot at Red Bull while Max and Horner are there.
I think Lando's world champion fortunes are very much tied in with how well Mclaren push on.

Agree Red Bull and Ferrari are out , both teams have drivers planned for a couple of years and think Lando would be well down the list for Mercedes but at least its a possibility

Its not always how you perform nowadays but what you can bring to the team as well there is no doubt Norris has done a huge amount for Mclaren raising their profile and bring a new generation of fans they will try everything to hold onto him i reckon

[Jake899]

liner33 said:

Agree Red Bull and Ferrari are out , both teams have drivers planned for a couple of years and think Lando would be well down the list for Mercedes but at least its a possibility

Its not always how you perform nowadays but what you can bring to the team as well there is no doubt Norris has done a huge amount for Mclaren raising their profile and bring a new generation of fans they will try everything to hold onto him i reckon

Nothing would make me happier than Mercedes and Mclaren pushing on next season and us having a real ding-dong four-way battle for the manufacturers title.

[Mark-C]

Harry H said:

He does look like the complete package to me.

Likeable
Great qualifier
Great racer
Rarely makes mistakes
Great with the media.

Just needs the opportunity in a top seat. Looks like Ferrari have their team set for a few years. Red Bull and Cheko may well fall out at some point. It is Red Bull after all and Hamilton can't go on forever.

I hope he gets a shot in a winning car as he would be an excellent ambassador for the sport.

I'd change that to "Good racer" - not sure he's proven himself to be in the top class yet at race craft. For example he appears tentative at the start of races - defintely would be good to see what he could do with a better car. But you could say that of Ocon as well ...

[threespires]

This was his first win in Ginetta Junior at Croft June 2014.
I followed his career from then onwards, his talent is clear to see. But sadly unless McLaren can build a world beating car, I think he will be the nearly man.
At the Silverstone BGP in 2019 Lando saw that my young grandson was shivering, so he took off his hoody and gave it to him. A lovely gesture.

[Petrus1983]

Great driver, very funny on social media - he’s got the likeability, and even when things don’t go his way he doesn’t let himself down.

[FourWheelDrift]

Jake899 said:

If he tires of trying at Mclaren, where is he gonna go that gives him a better shot?

Mercedes, replacing a retiring Hamilton in 2 years time and joining his good mate George.
Ferrari, replacing a crashing Leclerc and joining his good mate Carlos.
Red Bull, replacing Perez and joining his good mate Max.

[ralphrj]

Jake899 said:

No one has a shot at Red Bull while Max and Horner are there.

Lando's sliding doors moment is McLaren binning Stoffel Vandoorne to take up their option on him.

McLaren signed up Norris as a junior driver in early 2017 but needed to secure an F1 race seat for him in 2019 or their option on him would expire. The only option was at Toro Rosso but Red Bull wouldn't allow McLaren to place Norris there on loan. They wanted Norris long term and hoped that McLaren would allow their option to lapse. McLaren let Vandoorne go and took up the option on Norris.

If they had let him go them Norris would have gone to Toro Rosso instead of Alex Albon and presumably would have been promoted to the Red Bull team in place of Gasly in the second half of the season.

[InformationSuperHighway]

Personally, I think Lando should stay where he is.

He is the number one driver and will be for the foreseeable future (At least 3+ years).

I also think Mclaren have the chance at building a winning car in that timeframe as well.

Why go to a 'top 3' team and be a second string driver. His chances of winning races are better at Mclaren IMO.

[super7]

FourWheelDrift said:

Jake899 said:

If he tires of trying at Mclaren, where is he gonna go that gives him a better shot?

Mercedes, replacing a retiring Hamilton in 2 years time and joining his good mate George.
Ferrari, replacing a crashing Leclerc and joining his good mate Carlos.
Red Bull, replacing Perez and joining his good mate Max.

George will say..... nah please don't sign Lando!!!!

Carlos will say.... senior... please do not sign Lando!!!!!

Max will say.... If you sign Lando I'll set my Dad on you!!!!!

[Rotary Potato]

ralphrj said:

Lando's sliding doors moment is McLaren binning Stoffel Vandoorne to take up their option on him.

McLaren signed up Norris as a junior driver in early 2017 but needed to secure an F1 race seat for him in 2019 or their option on him would expire. The only option was at Toro Rosso but Red Bull wouldn't allow McLaren to place Norris there on loan. They wanted Norris long term and hoped that McLaren would allow their option to lapse. McLaren let Vandoorne go and took up the option on Norris.

If they had let him go them Norris would have gone to Toro Rosso instead of Alex Albon and presumably would have been promoted to the Red Bull team in place of Gasly in the second half of the season.

Now there's a poisoned chalice if ever I've seen one!

We'll never know whether the tough love approach Red Bull take with their young drivers would have made Lando or crushed him.

When so many apparently talented drivers have come through the revolving door of the Red Bull Young Driver program and been spat out the other side ... you have to wonder whether it's the drivers being of substandard ability, or the management of the program around them.

Liuzzi
Speed
Bourdais
Vettel
Buemi
Alguersauri
Ricciardo
Vergne
Kvyat
Sainz
Verstappen
Gasley
Hartley
Albon
Tsunoda

Those are some seriously talented drivers. Only 2 have really, really flourished in the Red Bull program. Who knows which way it would have gone with Lando if he'd jumped on board there.

I think he's a good fit for the modern reincarnation of McLaren - they seem to bring out the best in him. It'd be great if they could find a way to get back to winning ways together.

[super7]

If they had of persevered with that Honda engine..... I wonder where they may have been now.

I wonder how much of that was down to Alonso once again fking McLaren up ??????

[SoulGlo]

super7 said:

If they had of persevered with that Honda engine..... I wonder where they may have been now.

I wonder how much of that was down to Alonso once again fking McLaren up ??????

I don't think it was much about Alonso as much it was McLaren arrogance that it was purely the Honda engine that was the holding them back when in reality it was a mix of bad chassis and poor engine. It was until they switched to Renault that they got found out. Red Bull welcomed Honda with open arms and let them make experiment and learn from mistakes in the Toro Rosso for a year and then let Honda have more input in building chassis around their engine.

McLaren needed some humble pie around then. Alonso pressure wouldn't have helped though.

As said previously, Would love to see Mclaren and Mercedes fight for wins next season and make a four way fight like in 2012.

[rdjohn]

Do nice guys win championships?

I really like Lando, but, for me, he lives in division 2 with Charles, Carlos and quite a few others. George has an edge to him and, against Lewis, can demonstrate he is in Div1 with Max.

He is like Hill and Button, put him in a dominant car and he could walk away with the title, but he does need fair winds. McLaren is the perfect place for him right now.

[romeodelta]

rdjohn said:

Do nice guys win championships?

I really like Lando, but, for me, he lives in division 2 with Charles, Carlos and quite a few others. George has an edge to him and, against Lewis, can demonstrate he is in Div1 with Max.

He is like Hill and Button, put him in a dominant car and he could walk away with the title, but he does need fair winds. McLaren is the perfect place for him right now.

Agreed.

With all the other social stuff he does (which makes him likeable), the perception is he isn’t as focused or doesn’t want it as much as some of the top tier.

[PhilAsia]

HustleRussell said:

I think it's time for Lando Norris to join the rank of drivers who have their own self-titled PH thread.

A slim majority of current F1 drivers have a self-titled thread. On the whole, it seems that 'number 1' drivers are granted their very own thread. The qualifying definition for this is that the thread title is their name only and isn't contextual to their position in any one circumstance or team. Drivers who have transcended their position within any one team to become key players in the wider driver market and therefore the sport.

(Well, those drivers, plus Ocon, Magnussen, Zhou and Stroll anyway!)

I am beginning to wonder whether Mclaren was a move too many for Ricciardo, and Norris, a team-mate too far. There is a 'Daniel Ricciardo' thread which has run to 15 pages discussing the travails of captain permasmile. I think we need to beat on Ricciardo less and start appreciating Norris for this, and ask ourselves whether Norris is showing us that he is not just the 'young mclaren driver' but that he is thread-worthy in his own right. Mclaren must unquestionably look to him as their number one driver at this stage as a default.

To my surprise Norris was out-scored by the much more experienced Sainz points machine in his first and second season but my recollection is that their raw performance was difficult to split. The gap was basically non-existent in their second year and it was generally Norris who landed the headline-grabbing standout finishes. He has now made Ricciardo look a bit silly for the best part of two seasons, and this is Ricciardo, who has won most of his eight races with Verstappen as a team-mate.

Norris easily best of the rest this season, consistently extracts the potential from a car which is apparently not without it's vices, the most likely driver to spring a surprise to the top six in qualifying, an impressive six podiums to his name, very rarely seen to make an unforced error, basically never crashes? Show me his sporting weakness?

Also he's your daughter's favourite driver, one of the two or three drivers who anybody under the age of 16 is likely to have heard of, advocate for mental health... he is the antithesis of the machismo which often appears to dominate in F1. A man who was willing to be open about mental health and with the strength to be seen as vulnerable to external factors at barely 20 years of age. What a guy, and very important to F1 due to the way his character appears to have resonated with a whole generation. I hope he one day wins the thing.

I agree. For me he is the real deal and supremely sportsmanlike in his racecraft. I also am impressed by the way he goes about practice in a similar way to Rossi.

For McLaren to be back on the front row and Lando holding the torch would be magnificent!

[mat205125]

rdjohn said:

Do nice guys win championships?

I really like Lando, but, for me, he lives in division 2 with Charles, Carlos and quite a few others. George has an edge to him and, against Lewis, can demonstrate he is in Div1 with Max.

He is like Hill and Button, put him in a dominant car and he could walk away with the title, but he does need fair winds. McLaren is the perfect place for him right now.

Exactly right.

Whilst Max is the hands down best driver on the grid at the moment, I rate Lando as highly as LeClerc, Russell or Ocon, and better than Sainz, Gasleeeeeeeyyyyyy, or Albon.

He's a better bet to have in the McLaren seat than any driver that could be available, and he's in the best place for the term of his contract, but needs Zac to perform.

[spikyone]

SoulGlo said:

I don't think it was much about Alonso as much it was McLaren arrogance that it was purely the Honda engine that was the holding them back when in reality it was a mix of bad chassis and poor engine. It was until they switched to Renault that they got found out. Red Bull welcomed Honda with open arms and let them make experiment and learn from mistakes in the Toro Rosso for a year and then let Honda have more input in building chassis around their engine.

McLaren needed some humble pie around then. Alonso pressure wouldn't have helped though.

As said previously, Would love to see Mclaren and Mercedes fight for wins next season and make a four way fight like in 2012.

On the highlighted section - and without wishing to derail this thread - why did McLaren not know their chassis was rubbish? They only have one real source of information on that: the nut holding the steering wheel. Alonso was the experienced driver in that team. It was his job to tell the team if the chassis was no good, and to work with them to improve that. The real arrogance, as with his time at Ferrari, was Alonso believing that his wins were down to his own genius, whilst his losses were someone else's fault. He spent far too much time whinging very publicly about the "GP2 engine" in every radio call and interview.

I don't doubt that there are other factors, but McLaren have been on a clear upward trajectory since he left. A very fast driver who's proved time and again that he's just not a team player.

Back on topic, it's hilarious to look back at the first few posts since this thread was merged, with posters suggesting Lando wasn't up to F1 standards. I'm definitely of the opinion that he's maximising his equipment as much as anyone on the grid this season, just as he did last season. He was close to winning multiple races on merit last season in a car that was only 3rd best, and is in the midst of finishing off Danny Ric's reputation this season. In both quali and races Lando is leagues ahead.

[HustleRussell]

spikyone said:

SoulGlo said:

I don't think it was much about Alonso as much it was McLaren arrogance that it was purely the Honda engine that was the holding them back when in reality it was a mix of bad chassis and poor engine. It was until they switched to Renault that they got found out. Red Bull welcomed Honda with open arms and let them make experiment and learn from mistakes in the Toro Rosso for a year and then let Honda have more input in building chassis around their engine.

McLaren needed some humble pie around then. Alonso pressure wouldn't have helped though.

As said previously, Would love to see Mclaren and Mercedes fight for wins next season and make a four way fight like in 2012.

On the highlighted section - and without wishing to derail this thread - why did McLaren not know their chassis was rubbish? They only have one real source of information on that: the nut holding the steering wheel. Alonso was the experienced driver in that team. It was his job to tell the team if the chassis was no good, and to work with them to improve that. The real arrogance, as with his time at Ferrari, was Alonso believing that his wins were down to his own genius, whilst his losses were someone else's fault. He spent far too much time whinging very publicly about the "GP2 engine" in every radio call and interview.

I seem to remember that the car was up there with the best in terms of corner speeds and was subjectively nice to drive, hence Alonso blaming the engine. Only when they moved to the Renault engine did they discover that their car was so good in the corners because it had a load of inefficient and draggy aero on it. Their benchmarks were all wrong. They blamed Honda until they re-established their benchmark and realised how far they needed to go in all areas.

[mat205125]

HustleRussell said:

spikyone said:

SoulGlo said:

I don't think it was much about Alonso as much it was McLaren arrogance that it was purely the Honda engine that was the holding them back when in reality it was a mix of bad chassis and poor engine. It was until they switched to Renault that they got found out. Red Bull welcomed Honda with open arms and let them make experiment and learn from mistakes in the Toro Rosso for a year and then let Honda have more input in building chassis around their engine.

McLaren needed some humble pie around then. Alonso pressure wouldn't have helped though.

As said previously, Would love to see Mclaren and Mercedes fight for wins next season and make a four way fight like in 2012.

On the highlighted section - and without wishing to derail this thread - why did McLaren not know their chassis was rubbish? They only have one real source of information on that: the nut holding the steering wheel. Alonso was the experienced driver in that team. It was his job to tell the team if the chassis was no good, and to work with them to improve that. The real arrogance, as with his time at Ferrari, was Alonso believing that his wins were down to his own genius, whilst his losses were someone else's fault. He spent far too much time whinging very publicly about the "GP2 engine" in every radio call and interview.

I seem to remember that the car was up there with the best in terms of corner speeds and was subjectively nice to drive, hence Alonso blaming the engine. Only when they moved to the Renault engine did they discover that their car was so good in the corners because it had a load of inefficient and draggy aero on it. Their benchmarks were all wrong. They blamed Honda until they re-established their benchmark and realised how far they needed to go in all areas.

My recollection also. The car was pretty good, and Alonso being Alonso was able to drive the wheels off of it, and demonstrate pace that the package arguably shouldn't have been able to achieve.