Leclerc, Vettel & Ferrari 2019

Leclerc, Vettel & Ferrari 2019

Author
Discussion

Europa1

7,232 posts

124 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
HustleRussell said:
Leclerc has fantastic pedigree including being godson to Jules Bianci so probably has more F1 nous than people expect.
WTF difference does that make?!
Not only that, but he's Monagesque, don't you know? wink

Jasandjules

61,567 posts

165 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Europa1 said:
Not only that, but he's Monagesque, don't you know? wink
What? Really? Why on earth does nobody ever mention this!?

HTP99

13,154 posts

76 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
Europa1 said:
Not only that, but he's Monagesque, don't you know? wink
What? Really? Why on earth does nobody ever mention this!?
It certainly wasn't mentioned in the Autosport article which I read today about him topping the times at the Abu Dhabi testing!!!

(It was mentioned at the start of the second paragraph)

super7

390 posts

144 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
super7 said:
Alonso threatened to blackmail the team that they had Ferrari designs on their computers..... McLaren responded by comming clean to the FIA. That got a few people sacked and banned from F1 and ended up with McLaren getting a $100m fine. I can see why they had to let him go and have no idea why they let him back again....

Oh and most of the fine was paid by Mercedes, If I remember.....
What you are saying, then, is that McLaren were fined £100m twice then because your summary bears no relatioship to the one I remember.
Obviously not being you (thankfully) I have no idea what you remember? The bit where Alonso was going to tell all about the Ferrari drawings, The bit where McLaren pre-empted it by telling the FIA or the £100m fine? How about telling us what you remember?

Either way, I must defer to your obvioulsy superior memory.... PistonHeads (or knobheads) rule?

LaurasOtherHalf

14,072 posts

132 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Oi, don’t call Derek a knobhead.
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super7

390 posts

144 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
The biggest step up for a young driver is into F1. The next biggest is to go from a team from the back of the grid to one at the front. These teams are normally there because of the demands they make of their drivers. One or two prove themselves up for it, many more do not.

Leclerk has been very good this season. Excellent in fact, but next season is going to be the big test. There are a number of drivers who have been in his position who didn't make it. The reason are often obscure.

I remember HH Frentzen, a driver of quality who, in lower formulae, proved himself the equal and sometimes better of Schumacher. He was very good as an F1 driver as well, but not quite good enough. I thought he'd beat MS in F1, as did a number of others, some who knew what they were talking about as well. Whether a driver is that top level, the 1% that makes all the difference, is extremely difficult to predict.

I hope Leclerk is up to it as I want a challenge to Hamilton, and I don't think Vettel is capable. But the odds are against it I'm afraid.
The biggest step up for a young driver is to step up into a top F1 team..... Vertsappen, Hamilton. The second biggest step uup is to join the back of the grid or indeed middle of the grid.

What you don't point out above is that there are only 4-6 top drives at any time and yes some talent, like HH Frentzen who outperformed Scumacher in the lower formula, dont get into those top drives because thye don't come free. Schumacher was lucky, he had a manager who ran Benneton so got a natural leg up, then he managed to wrap Ferrari round his finger and get all the attention, even to ensuring his team mate could not properley compete with him. I'm sure a lot of drivers including HHF would beat Schumacher if they were allowed to simply race him in exactly the same equipment.

Leclerc is simply a sublime driver. Seeing him race in the last GP2 season was mesmerising. He had speed and he understood the tyres. He's the real deal and a season at Sauber has proved his ability further. I have no doubt that Vettel is going to have even more pressure next year and I can't see Ferrari taking on Leclerc and wasting him as Vettel's lackie. He's got to be allowed to compete because Vettel can't beat Hamilton.

The only thing that would make next year even more epic would be if Mercedes paid off Bottas and took Ocon on.

super7

390 posts

144 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Oi, don’t call Derek a knobhead.
Sorry!

Jasandjules

61,567 posts

165 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
It certainly wasn't mentioned in the Autosport article which I read today about him topping the times at the Abu Dhabi testing!!!

(It was mentioned at the start of the second paragraph)
Nope, I don't think the Sky F1 commentary team have ever provided this fascinating titbit of info either............ Ever............

REALIST123

10,344 posts

89 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
super7 said:
The biggest step up for a young driver is to step up into a top F1 team..... Vertsappen, Hamilton. The second biggest step uup is to join the back of the grid or indeed middle of the grid.

What you don't point out above is that there are only 4-6 top drives at any time and yes some talent, like HH Frentzen who outperformed Scumacher in the lower formula, dont get into those top drives because thye don't come free. Schumacher was lucky, he had a manager who ran Benneton so got a natural leg up, then he managed to wrap Ferrari round his finger and get all the attention, even to ensuring his team mate could not properley compete with him. I'm sure a lot of drivers including HHF would beat Schumacher if they were allowed to simply race him in exactly the same equipment.

Leclerc is simply a sublime driver. Seeing him race in the last GP2 season was mesmerising. He had speed and he understood the tyres. He's the real deal and a season at Sauber has proved his ability further. I have no doubt that Vettel is going to have even more pressure next year and I can't see Ferrari taking on Leclerc and wasting him as Vettel's lackie. He's got to be allowed to compete because Vettel can't beat Hamilton.

The only thing that would make next year even more epic would be if Mercedes paid off Bottas and took Ocon on.
Who’s that then?

By the way, most of Schumacher’s teammates are on record as accepting that they weren’t as quick as him. Why should we believe you over them?

Derek Smith

32,077 posts

184 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Oi, don’t call Derek a knobhead.
Thank you.

It's not worth arguing - that's about Alonso threatening anything about any drawings, not me being a knobhead. Mind you, there's nothing like a well-researched response to a post. And that was . . well you know.


Derek Smith

32,077 posts

184 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Who’s that then?

By the way, most of Schumacher’s teammates are on record as accepting that they weren’t as quick as him. Why should we believe you over them?
Johnny Herbert, and his parents, thought JH could match him in equal machinery and info.

Eddie Irvine accepted he wasn't as fast as Schumacher, but then, so did everyone else.


REALIST123

10,344 posts

89 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
REALIST123 said:
Who’s that then?

By the way, most of Schumacher’s teammates are on record as accepting that they weren’t as quick as him. Why should we believe you over them?
Johnny Herbert, and his parents, thought JH could match him in equal machinery and info.

Eddie Irvine accepted he wasn't as fast as Schumacher, but then, so did everyone else.
Have it your own way.

I guess super7 was right; Schumacher was just lucky........ rolleyes

Muzzer79

2,499 posts

123 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Derek Smith said:
REALIST123 said:
Who’s that then?

By the way, most of Schumacher’s teammates are on record as accepting that they weren’t as quick as him. Why should we believe you over them?
Johnny Herbert, and his parents, thought JH could match him in equal machinery and info.

Eddie Irvine accepted he wasn't as fast as Schumacher, but then, so did everyone else.
Have it your own way.

I guess super7 was right; Schumacher was just lucky........ rolleyes
Lucky is obviously the wrong term but he did have the cards stacked in his favour in respect of almost bespoke equipments, unlimited testing, etc.

To say that “a lot” of drivers would have beaten him in the same equipment is wrong, but I don’t believe he was as untouchable as the results on paper would suggest.

Anyhow, we digress

cb1965

2,596 posts

81 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Derek Smith said:
REALIST123 said:
Who’s that then?

By the way, most of Schumacher’s teammates are on record as accepting that they weren’t as quick as him. Why should we believe you over them?
Johnny Herbert, and his parents, thought JH could match him in equal machinery and info.

Eddie Irvine accepted he wasn't as fast as Schumacher, but then, so did everyone else.
Have it your own way.

I guess super7 was right; Schumacher was just lucky........ rolleyes
Yep, 91 times rolleyes

TobyTR

234 posts

82 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Iirc there’s a vid on YouTube that shows a comparison of data plus footage from a test at Silverstone ’95. Schumacher was carrying more speed into apexes and getting on the power earlier than Johnny H. Michael was just a class above the rest, as demonstrated in those mega performances in average Ferraris ‘96-’98 (minus the bashing moments).

I think Leclerc will live up to the hype next year. He’s already proven this year to be fast, very consistent and he’s not made any stupid errors (ala Max or Kyvat) even though it’s his rookie season. Phenomenal performance. Plus he goes into next year with Ferrari as the underdog to Vettel and all the pressure on the German; much the same as Lewis was the underdog up against Alonso in 2007 and thrived on that.

Nico Rosberg said an interesting quote:

''The difference between each driver in Formula 1, from the best to the worst, is about 0.3-0.4 seconds a lap (or Hamilton to Bottas 0.6sec wink ). From the best car to the worst car, I guess it's two seconds or one-and-a-half seconds... so make a percentage with that... performance is about 20 percent driver, and 80 percent car.''

LDN

5,838 posts

139 months

Thursday 29th November
quotequote all
Leclerc is the real deal and is Ferrari’s future. Do not be shocked if he outclasses Vettel over a series of races; which sees Vettel fall apart and want out. Basically, a repeat of the Red Bull / Danny Ric dynamic and scenario.

cb1965

2,596 posts

81 months

Thursday 29th November
quotequote all
TobyTR said:
Iirc there’s a vid on YouTube that shows a comparison of data plus footage from a test at Silverstone ’95. Schumacher was carrying more speed into apexes and getting on the power earlier than Johnny H. Michael was just a class above the rest, as demonstrated in those mega performances in average Ferraris ‘96-’98 (minus the bashing moments).
It was his ability to find a way to drive round a car's inherent issues that was the most impressive. There are two notable stories, one told by Berger and one by Benetton engineers.

Berger's is the most interesting. In 1995 Schumacher coasted to his second WC with Benetton and at the end of the season went to Ferrari with Berger coming the other way. The first thing Berger did was jump in the WC winning B195 car at the next test to find out how good it felt to drive a WC car. After a good few laps he came back and altered the set up and went back out.... this was repeated several times before Berger ultimately reported the car as impossible to get a lap time from. When shown the data from Schumacher he just shook his head and said something along the lines of 'I can't do that with this car'.

The engineers' story is quite fun. Schumacher had been testing the Benetton all morning and the lap times were not coming. They looked at the telemetry and it was obvious where speed was being lost, the engineers were ready to concede the car was maxed out and needed some design changes around the aero, but Schumacher was having none of it. At lunch instead of eating he sat next to the car staring at it and thinking for nearly an hour. After lunch he was immediately on the pace..... he said he had analysed the way the car felt in those corners where they were losing time and mapped his driving to the car's capabilities.... when they looked at the new telemetry the areas where he had been slower were all much better, but his application of the brakes, throttle and steering were all completely different to the morning. Most drivers have a style and Schumacher was no exception, it's just that like Senna, Alonso and Hamilton he could change it to get the car in better shape.

OFORBES

Original Poster:

72 posts

36 months

Thursday 29th November
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
Jasandjules said:
Europa1 said:
Not only that, but he's Monagesque, don't you know? wink
What? Really? Why on earth does nobody ever mention this!?
It certainly wasn't mentioned in the Autosport article which I read today about him topping the times at the Abu Dhabi testing!!!

(It was mentioned at the start of the second paragraph)
I am glad that it isn't just me who noticed this. It was hilarious when I first noticed it and every time I discussed him with my mates we would hilariously, if not childishly, question where he was from and come up with obscure places beginning with M. (My favourite being Mozambique)

I just started to think his name was "The Young Monegasque Driver Charles Leclerc"

London424

11,330 posts

111 months

Thursday 29th November
quotequote all
TobyTR said:
Iirc there’s a vid on YouTube that shows a comparison of data plus footage from a test at Silverstone ’95. Schumacher was carrying more speed into apexes and getting on the power earlier than Johnny H. Michael was just a class above the rest, as demonstrated in those mega performances in average Ferraris ‘96-’98 (minus the bashing moments).

I think Leclerc will live up to the hype next year. He’s already proven this year to be fast, very consistent and he’s not made any stupid errors (ala Max or Kyvat) even though it’s his rookie season. Phenomenal performance. Plus he goes into next year with Ferrari as the underdog to Vettel and all the pressure on the German; much the same as Lewis was the underdog up against Alonso in 2007 and thrived on that.

Nico Rosberg said an interesting quote:

''The difference between each driver in Formula 1, from the best to the worst, is about 0.3-0.4 seconds a lap (or Hamilton to Bottas 0.6sec wink ). From the best car to the worst car, I guess it's two seconds or one-and-a-half seconds... so make a percentage with that... performance is about 20 percent driver, and 80 percent car.''
There was a piece in the last week about qualifying times...Bottas was <2 tenths slower then Hamilton...that's it. The difference between WC and getting slated for underperforming (1 lap pace, not race pace).

Jasandjules

61,567 posts

165 months

Thursday 29th November
quotequote all
London424 said:
There was a piece in the last week about qualifying times...Bottas was <2 tenths slower then Hamilton...that's it. The difference between WC and getting slated for underperforming (1 lap pace, not race pace).
Um, can you say Singapore?