"Sebastian Vettel a 'massively overrated one-trick pony"

"Sebastian Vettel a 'massively overrated one-trick pony"

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Discussion

sparta6

1,126 posts

38 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
DS240 said:
I'll try to cover my views on the different points raised....

Vettel -
I do not believe is massively over rated. I don't think you can fluke or get lucky on 4 world titles. The last 3 years have been massively disappointing though, I would say as a Ferrari fan. he is fast, works well with the team, but is not delivering the consistency.

Berger / Alesi -
Both were good, solid drivers. I think Ferrari hoped Berger was the all round reliable one and Alesi was going to be the superstar. Ultimately I don't think either were your world title material. Plus they never really got the car from Ferrari to go for it. My love of F1 started in 93 and followed Ferrari from that time.

Schumacher -
The best. Too easy to dismiss the success over the infamous incidents. He was all round fast, consistent, clever, brutal, driven and changed the game with work ethic and preparation.

Probably best to discuss how I see drivers on the grid now before going onto Irvine. They are all top of their game, but like any sport there are those who sit at the top and those who sit at the bottom. We aren't talking about a huge degree of skill difference, but there are those who operate at the top, those in the middle who sometimes reach the top and then those who make up the bottom level. Split into Cat A, B and C.

Irvine -
For example, i'd say he was a Cat B. And I reckon he'd agree with that also. He openly said he couldn't fight Michael and never pretended he was there to win the title from him. He performed the solid team mate role and he nearly got his WDC reward when Michael broke his leg. Unlike Massa or Barrichello, each Cat B also, they would come out every year and say this was their year to beat Michael and then as the year wore on the excuses came out. They had their good days, but they could not fight all the time with Cat A.

Webber, Coulthard, Raikkonen, Bottas, Ricciardo all Cat B.
I agree with your overview.

On Alesi - he certainly had Cat A skills, his moves on Senna at Phoenix were evidence alone.
It's a pity the Ferrari could not deliver.

Europa1

7,479 posts

126 months

Sunday 10th February
quotequote all
spunkytherabbit said:
Galileo said:
Irvine has always been and probably always will be a weapons grade bell-end
I have just laughed out loud on a conference call reading this!!!!!
I quite liked him when he was racing, as he was occasionally an antidote to the general wall to wall corporate speak.

Now, I rank his pronouncements with those of Jacques Villeneuve, who even when he was racing in F1 I regarded as a weapons grade bellend.

TobyTR

275 posts

84 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
DS240 said:
I'll try to cover my views on the different points raised....

Vettel -
I do not believe is massively over rated. I don't think you can fluke or get lucky on 4 world titles. The last 3 years have been massively disappointing though, I would say as a Ferrari fan. he is fast, works well with the team, but is not delivering the consistency.

Berger / Alesi -
Both were good, solid drivers. I think Ferrari hoped Berger was the all round reliable one and Alesi was going to be the superstar. Ultimately I don't think either were your world title material. Plus they never really got the car from Ferrari to go for it. My love of F1 started in 93 and followed Ferrari from that time.

Schumacher -
The best. Too easy to dismiss the success over the infamous incidents. He was all round fast, consistent, clever, brutal, driven and changed the game with work ethic and preparation.

Probably best to discuss how I see drivers on the grid now before going onto Irvine. They are all top of their game, but like any sport there are those who sit at the top and those who sit at the bottom. We aren't talking about a huge degree of skill difference, but there are those who operate at the top, those in the middle who sometimes reach the top and then those who make up the bottom level. Split into Cat A, B and C.

Irvine -
For example, i'd say he was a Cat B. And I reckon he'd agree with that also. He openly said he couldn't fight Michael and never pretended he was there to win the title from him. He performed the solid team mate role and he nearly got his WDC reward when Michael broke his leg. Unlike Massa or Barrichello, each Cat B also, they would come out every year and say this was their year to beat Michael and then as the year wore on the excuses came out. They had their good days, but they could not fight all the time with Cat A.

Webber, Coulthard, Raikkonen, Bottas, Ricciardo all Cat B.
I agree with all that, except Raikkonen I'd class as Cat A 2003-2007 (before he lost 'it') and Ricciardo Cat A if given a consistent race-winning car; he's already proven to have more talent than Webber and Coulthard, with bigger cojones when it matters, too. Imo, Ricciardo in a Merc or Ferrari would've done a slightly better job than Vettel last year, he's a beast.

Derek Smith

32,507 posts

186 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
DS240 said:
Irvine -
For example, i'd say he was a Cat B. And I reckon he'd agree with that also.

Webber, Coulthard, Raikkonen, Bottas, Ricciardo all Cat B.
I'm certain he would and does not. At the time he said that there were just two world class drivers on the grid, him and MS and he graciously admitted MS was the better.

Raikk as class B? There's a thought.





Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 11th February 14:28

DS240

2,677 posts

156 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
[quote=DS240

Irvine -
For example, i'd say he was a Cat B. And I reckon he'd agree with that also.

Webber, Coulthard, Raikkonen, Bottas, Ricciardo all Cat B.
I'm certain he would and does not. At the time he said that there were just two world class drivers on the grid, him and MS and he graciously admitted MS was the better.

Raikk as class B? There's a thought.

Okay maybe a little harsh on a world champion. However, the last few years have not exactly been special.

I'd have sacked him from Ferrari a long time ago!

In fact, reflecting on it, the last few years I'd stand by the Cat B for him.
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Duns

9 posts

3 months

It may have been Lewis & Mercedes worked well together last year and did better with the opportunities they had. Marchionne's passing wouldn't have helped.