Williams F1

Author
Discussion

Redlake27

2,234 posts

183 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
DanielSan said:
William's are quite simply the new Tyrrell.
But the ashes of Tyrrell won the last 5 titles smile

TheDeuce

618 posts

5 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Redlake27 said:
But the ashes of Tyrrell won the last 5 titles smile
Ha! So true!

Although They changed names/hands so many times between. I'm sure DNA was handed down the line each time though.

Williams probably need to drop the family team thing, and get in a new team principal. They can own it, but this joint effort between Frank and Claire just doesn't seem to work. Frank, with all due respect, is clearly still involved but is also a man who formed his opinions of what works in F1 in a very different era. And it's hard to believe Claire isn't inclined to listen to his input and sometimes be led by it more than might be wise.

I don't imagine that anyone at Mercedes question Toto's decisions for example. They just judge his performance and if it's good, he stays, if bad he will be asked to go before long. Same as most team principals. When Toto was at Williams, I can't imagine Frank at least wasn't having weekly meetings and questioning things.

None of this is a criticism of Frank, but I do think there is a reality of age and a tendency to try to apply what you know worked from 20 years ago to a modern team.

tigerkoi

2,588 posts

137 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Redlake27 said:
But the ashes of Tyrrell won the last 5 titles smile
Ha! So true!

Although They changed names/hands so many times between. I'm sure DNA was handed down the line each time though.

Williams probably need to drop the family team thing, and get in a new team principal. They can own it, but this joint effort between Frank and Claire just doesn't seem to work. Frank, with all due respect, is clearly still involved but is also a man who formed his opinions of what works in F1 in a very different era. And it's hard to believe Claire isn't inclined to listen to his input and sometimes be led by it more than might be wise.

I don't imagine that anyone at Mercedes question Toto's decisions for example. They just judge his performance and if it's good, he stays, if bad he will be asked to go before long. Same as most team principals. When Toto was at Williams, I can't imagine Frank at least wasn't having weekly meetings and questioning things.

None of this is a criticism of Frank, but I do think there is a reality of age and a tendency to try to apply what you know worked from 20 years ago to a modern team.
Well said.

thegreenhell

5,189 posts

158 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Redlake27 said:
But the ashes of Tyrrell won the last 5 titles smile
Ha! So true!

Although They changed names/hands so many times between. I'm sure DNA was handed down the line each time though.
Four times removed from Tyrrell, and when BAR bought them they pretty much only bought the FIA entry and started again from scratch.

groomi

9,156 posts

182 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
groomi said:
The thing that struck me about 3 or 4 seasons ago, when they were occasionally getting front row starts, was that they seemed to be relieved to be up the sharp end and content with a good points finish. Their strategies and demeanour seemed to lack any ambition to actually risk going for the win. I think it was Hungary and Britain that season in particular I thought it.
Was it the British GP where they started P3 and P4, jumped both Mercs at the start to run P1 and P2 for the first half of the race, then through poorly executed pitstops and strategy ended up P4 and P5 at the finish?
Yep. The main issue being their refusal/reluctance to swap the drivers around when I think Bottas exited the pits just behind Massa, only a few lengths behind Hamilton and Bottas was clearly quicker.

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HighwayStar

2,223 posts

83 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Looking like they'll be at the Barcelona Test, aiming to be on track for the afternoon session.
https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/245286/williams...

TheDeuce

618 posts

5 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
There's gonna be some sleepy Williams engineers come testing tomorrow sleep

Especially if Williams do indeed send over a part built car, and I presume the boxes of bits they've been trying to get to work together at the factory.

On the plus side, it's going to be fascinating seeing the performance of this car, given that it's had such a rough birth. I guess it'll either be the result of an, in the end, rushed product - but if it's good, it's always nice to see an underdog prove itself smile



HighwayStar

2,223 posts

83 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
There's gonna be some sleepy Williams engineers come testing tomorrow sleep

Especially if Williams do indeed send over a part built car, and I presume the boxes of bits they've been trying to get to work together at the factory.

On the plus side, it's going to be fascinating seeing the performance of this car, given that it's had such a rough birth. I guess it'll either be the result of an, in the end, rushed product - but if it's good, it's always nice to see an underdog prove itself smile
I think it’s a real shame where Williams are now, how they’ve slide down the grid to the back. Way way back Lotus were my team. Later Williams became the team I routed for.
It could all have been so different if Frank has Patrick had allow Newey a piece of the company as he’d wanted.
I hope the car is the start of the turnaround but looking at the other teams, they all have decent funding and some benefitting from association with the big boys.
Even if the FW42 turns out to be a decent car able to battle the midfield, it wouldn’t be difficult to imagine them being out developed across the season...

rdjohn

3,201 posts

134 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
You must have missed this post last evening.
Hub said:
From Andrew Benson on BBC -

"Insiders say it (2019 car) is projected to be at least two seconds slower than last year's car, which was already the slowest in F1"

Oh dear.

TheDeuce

618 posts

5 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
You must have missed this post last evening.
Hub said:
From Andrew Benson on BBC -

"Insiders say it (2019 car) is projected to be at least two seconds slower than last year's car, which was already the slowest in F1"

Oh dear.
It's more that I'm trying to avoid the rumours and stick with facts - although as I've said a few times, it is getting tough to believe that with the delay, the car is going to be some sort of miracle that will change the tide at Williams.

If it's really 2 seconds slower then they might as well give up. With the improvement seen across the rest of the grid, and with further final development tweaks... What would that mean for Williams? It's going to be 4-6 seconds slower a lap than the rest of the midfield in real terms? That would be truly painful to watch.

But come tomorrow afternoon, unless they suffer more apparently 'unexpected delays' then we will very soon know one way or the other.

TheDeuce

618 posts

5 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
To add to the facts surrounding the delayed Williams; according to F1 site the car in it's complete form was only fired up on Sunday night for the first time. So what will be fascinating is that whatever they end up with tomorrow, really won't have run in it's complete form, even on a test bed.

Each component and the near finished tub and running gear will have been run on the dyno, but not the final car with all the ancillary stuff added. That blows my mind, terrifies and excites me in equal measure smile


thegreenhell

5,189 posts

158 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
So it will be a true shakedown tomorrow. Hopefully they brought enough parts to fix anything that breaks so they can run again on Thursday...

TheDeuce

618 posts

5 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
I mean... I'm half expecting to wake up tomorrow with an F1 app alert on my phone saying they have cancelled plans to run tomorrow lol.

But yea, if they do run surely something will break soon enough!

markcoznottz

4,777 posts

163 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
TheDeuce said:
There's gonna be some sleepy Williams engineers come testing tomorrow sleep

Especially if Williams do indeed send over a part built car, and I presume the boxes of bits they've been trying to get to work together at the factory.

On the plus side, it's going to be fascinating seeing the performance of this car, given that it's had such a rough birth. I guess it'll either be the result of an, in the end, rushed product - but if it's good, it's always nice to see an underdog prove itself smile
I think it’s a real shame where Williams are now, how they’ve slide down the grid to the back. Way way back Lotus were my team. Later Williams became the team I routed for.
It could all have been so different if Frank has Patrick had allow Newey a piece of the company as he’d wanted.
I hope the car is the start of the turnaround but looking at the other teams, they all have decent funding and some benefitting from association with the big boys.
Even if the FW42 turns out to be a decent car able to battle the midfield, it wouldn’t be difficult to imagine them being out developed across the season...
Ken Tyrrell sold at the right time, his team was well past its best. Not known for thier man management skills, frank and pat, you are right they should have rewarded newey. Makes you wonder how well dernie was paid/looked after, being as he effectively saved the team, and pushed them into the big league.

WestyCarl

1,960 posts

64 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Fundoreen said:
such a load of rubbish spoken about how this signals something apocalyptic.
If you had a choice of doing something right or rushing out half baked with a car that wouldn't even be the one you end up with in Aus it looks sensible.
Personally I choose meeting the critical deadline, especially as it's been known for 6 months or more.

Unless the wind tunnel found some amazing performance gain a few weeks ago and and they're going to blow everyone away, someone should be sacked for this delay.

TheDeuce

618 posts

5 months

Tuesday 19th February
quotequote all
Here is a video with some interesting opinions and views from Gary Anderson, an F1 tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG6Wover3gw&fe...

Seems to conclude about the same as this thread, basically down to poor organisation on some level.

DanielSan

13,792 posts

106 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Redlake27 said:
DanielSan said:
William's are quite simply the new Tyrrell.
But the ashes of Tyrrell won the last 5 titles smile
So stage 1 of the solution to the problem is sell up to Jacques Villenueve and some investors hehe

TheDeuce

618 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
DanielSan said:
So stage 1 of the solution to the problem is sell up to Jacques Villenueve and some investors hehe
Maybe not exactly lol, but I do think either a wholesale change of ownership, or simply handing executive (genuine executive) control to just one person with a proven track record, outside the family is what it would take.

Obviously I'm treading dangerously saying that as the car will be on the track soon and could prove we were all worried about nothing. I doubt it, but you never know..

Mr Pointy

3,070 posts

98 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Williams staff "close to mutiny" according to the Telegraph:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2019/02/19/w...

TheDeuce

618 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Mr Pointy said:
Williams staff "close to mutiny" according to the Telegraph:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2019/02/19/w...
The scariest part of that story "Frank Williams has been overseeing development on a day to day basis".

How is that supposed to be useful? Might as well have Clive Sinclair standing over the apple techs as they develop the latest smart phone.

The old guard may indeed have a lot of relevant wisdom, and can often I'm sure be a useful ear and offer some support. But on a day to day basis, they do not need to be monitoring all of everything. They certainly don't need to be around the younger Claire on a day to day basis, she needs to take global control for real.

The whole setup, nice as it sounds in theory, just cannot be conducive to cutting edge thinking in modern F1 terms.