Williams F1

Williams F1

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RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

6,801 posts

50 months

Thursday 25th June
quotequote all
skwdenyer said:
Re Rokit:



That is from WGPE’s accounts made up to 31 Dec 2019 & signed-off in May.
Doesn't that talk about the position at the balance sheet date, i.e. 31st Dec, rather than May this year?

skwdenyer

8,671 posts

195 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
skwdenyer said:
Re Rokit:



That is from WGPE’s accounts made up to 31 Dec 2019 & signed-off in May.
Doesn't that talk about the position at the balance sheet date, i.e. 31st Dec, rather than May this year?
It does. And I presented it without comment as it is somewhat ambiguous smile

skwdenyer

8,671 posts

195 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
skwdenyer said:
Re Rokit:



That is from WGPE’s accounts made up to 31 Dec 2019 & signed-off in May.
Doesn't that talk about the position at the balance sheet date, i.e. 31st Dec, rather than May this year?
Worth also considering this:



from https://www.racefans.net/2020/06/24/williams-rokit...

Tyre Smoke

14,600 posts

216 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
Is it well known what has happened?

All we know is there was money outstanding at Dec 31st and Williams sacked off Rokit a few weeks ago and let the world know they were available to be bought. Not up for sale as such, but "talk to us".

Nobody really knows, outside of Williams and Rokit what actually happened. Perhaps Rokit approached Williams and said, we need to be off, we don't want our fine brand miles off the pace at the back of the grid again, it's not a good look for us.

TheDeuce

5,468 posts

21 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Is it well known what has happened?

All we know is there was money outstanding at Dec 31st and Williams sacked off Rokit a few weeks ago and let the world know they were available to be bought. Not up for sale as such, but "talk to us".

Nobody really knows, outside of Williams and Rokit what actually happened. Perhaps Rokit approached Williams and said, we need to be off, we don't want our fine brand miles off the pace at the back of the grid again, it's not a good look for us.
I suppose their 'source' is stating that within certain circles (ie chatter amongst teams) it is well known what has happened - whatever the heck actually has happened.

We don't know the details of their agreement with Rokit. For all we know there may be a requirement for them to provide a certain minimum level of exposure each season, and they couldn't meet that this season which could have meant Rokit effectively get a free ride for whatever exposure they do get. Williams may have lost nothing by ditching them and simply opened up the space for new potential sponsorship under different terms. All utter speculation of course, I'm only giving an example of what could be in the agreement, and without seeing the agreement we can't appreciate why they have taken the route they have.

Or as previously suggested, they wouldn't be the first team to sack off a main sponsor to make the team more appealing to potential new owners - maybe they had an opportunity to break with Rokit now, or be committed for another two seasons.. that wouldn't be great if the only buyers sniffing around all had their own brand they would want to apply to the team.

Whatever the reason for Williams terminating the deal, I'm sure it would make sense if we knew the details - which we don't.

BrettMRC

1,486 posts

115 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
New livery is on display:




Lynchie999

2,971 posts

108 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
... just a link,

Rokit sponsor the Venturi FE team... the team principle being Suzi Wolff ... scratchchin

they now sponsor both the Wolff's teams... hmm ...

Fundoreen

1,494 posts

38 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
As williams have said many times, they have the budget to do this season and next. They seem to be in a lot less trouble than most.
Its all very well having a car festooned with big money sponsors but without any racing and exposure they may not be paying much.
For instance the pink mercedes will be the aston martin team next year. Have they even sold a car in the last 6 months?
Expect the pink mercedes to do well this year and maybe reward Perez for his loyalty but big stroll will be digging in his pockets.


sgtBerbatov

2,061 posts

36 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
BrettMRC said:
New livery is on display:



Far, far better than the "testing" livery with Rockit plastered on it.

DanielSan

14,884 posts

122 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
It sort of reminds me of the 97/98 Tyrrell. Not a good omen....

ajprice

17,616 posts

151 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
sgtBerbatov said:
BrettMRC said:
New livery is on display:



Far, far better than the "testing" livery with Rockit plastered on it.
Lots better. The weird lumpy shape of their side pods really didn't help the Rokit logo, it looked more like one of those distorted text Captcha security images hehe

C Lee Farquar

3,075 posts

171 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Whatever the reason for Williams terminating the deal, I'm sure it would make sense if we knew the details - which we don't.
Agreed, and I wouldn't pay attention to any source that said 'absolutely shocked'

sgtBerbatov

2,061 posts

36 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
ajprice said:
sgtBerbatov said:
BrettMRC said:
New livery is on display:



Far, far better than the "testing" livery with Rockit plastered on it.
Lots better. The weird lumpy shape of their side pods really didn't help the Rokit logo, it looked more like one of those distorted text Captcha security images hehe
Totally agree, for a moment I thought it read "fkit" at a glance!

Fundoreen

1,494 posts

38 months

Whats all the mystery. Maybe with no races run they realized the deal would have paid them nothing so took the option not to give rokit free publicity.
All Rokits other deals are in lesser catagories and probably for peanuts.
Also to be fair to Rokit they may have been struggling in the current economic climate.
Williams will probably have similar year to last but you hope for more.
I guess they are pretty much hamstrung by the fact they make a lot of their own parts.
RP could do a pink copy of the mercedes as they took so much of the rear of the car from
Mercedes that they could guess where all the other components go and be about right.
They have pretty much being helped by this the last few years but went extra brazen with 2020 car.
Bit unfair to expect williams with a fraction of the budget to produce a mercedes rival from scratch.
New regs once again will make the task a bit easier.

andburg

3,744 posts

124 months

all this Rokit to merc talk but nothing reported as signed and they're not featured on the new black livery.


HustleRussell

17,883 posts

115 months

I think Williams will be in a better place competitively than they were last year. Last year was a complete clusterfk and they spent most of the season fighting fires rather than making any technical progress. I think their car is destined to be the worst on the grid again but I would hope they will be a bit less detached from the back of the grid than they were last year, which is unfortunately as optimistic as one can be about Williams these days.

Dermot O'Logical

932 posts

84 months

Last year's car was an improvement over the 2018 car, which had a problem with the airflow detaching from the rear wing and diffuser, causing a sudden loss of rear downforce on turn-in and pitching the car into the nearest gravel trap or Armco barrier, which also undermined the drivers' confidence. For a team with their own in-house wind tunnel, such a fundamental problem was inexcusable.

So, although the 2019 car was flawed, it wasn't a potential death trap. It was just slow, and lacking development, which points to a funding shortfall. Paddy Lowe must have had some input into the 2019 Williams before he was invited to pursue other opportunities, and although he isn't a designer, he must have picked up a few ideas during his time at Mercedes, otherwise why hire him?

In years to come Williams will be a case study in how to turn a top of the midfield team into also-rans. When you consider the proud history of the once great team, it will seem like a tragedy.

TheDeuce

5,468 posts

21 months

Dermot O'Logical said:
Last year's car was an improvement over the 2018 car, which had a problem with the airflow detaching from the rear wing and diffuser, causing a sudden loss of rear downforce on turn-in and pitching the car into the nearest gravel trap or Armco barrier, which also undermined the drivers' confidence. For a team with their own in-house wind tunnel, such a fundamental problem was inexcusable.

So, although the 2019 car was flawed, it wasn't a potential death trap. It was just slow, and lacking development, which points to a funding shortfall. Paddy Lowe must have had some input into the 2019 Williams before he was invited to pursue other opportunities, and although he isn't a designer, he must have picked up a few ideas during his time at Mercedes, otherwise why hire him?

In years to come Williams will be a case study in how to turn a top of the midfield team into also-rans. When you consider the proud history of the once great team, it will seem like a tragedy.
I think we can safely say Williams definitely has a funding shortfall.. As a team, they talk about that shortfall very often.

Miracles can be achieved by teams with limited means of course.. But tight budgets do present a couple of issues:

1) Development of ideas in engineering terms tends to slow down, as each potential idea has a cost to R&D. That means that in addition to getting the idea to work, the proponents of that idea also inevitably face a battle each stage of the way with the purse holders. Those battles will ultimately often water down the final implementation of the original idea too.

2) A very limited budget tends to force engineers/designers to stick with a concept even if it's not developing as hoped. It's expensive to perform a u-turn even very early on during a project, so in such circumstances, once you've stuck your head down the rabbit hole - you're committed to sticking with it.

This years car is an improved version of last years - we can all see the improvements, which is great. The concept of the base car itself though is not great at all. With it's fat nose and bloated packaging it looks almost like it's from a different period to the rest of the grid. They can't improve it more than skin deep however, because of cost. And they now have to use the same chassis for next year too.. Which from a cost perspective I'm sure is welcome news. From a competitiveness perspective, really not!

Smollet

5,307 posts

145 months

DanielSan said:
It sort of reminds me of the 97/98 Tyrrell. Not a good omen....
Iirc they morphed into something rather good so probably quite a good omen.

Petrus1983

3,726 posts

117 months

Smollet said:
Iirc they morphed into something rather good so probably quite a good omen.
Tyrell to BAR then to Honda Racing F1, then to Brawn GP and ended up as this little outfit called Mercedes GP.