Discussion
carl_w said:
I thought he had an offer from McLaren but it was results-based (i.e. no points = no cash)?
That's not what a world champion would call a serious offer.I am sure you got the point though, they strung him along until his options were very limited, pretty s
tty way to treat any driver, never mind someone as decent as Damon.Hill also had a serious offer from JYS to join the new Stewart team, but he felt that Arrows would be a better bet than something brand new. It also gave him the opportunity to go for just a one year deal and then look for something else, without feeling that he was deserting his friend if Stewart didn't work out for him. In the end they both scored a second place result in '97, but it's crazy when you look back at the season results and see how many retirements there were compared to now. Stewart only had 8 finishes out of 34 starts that year.
Quite revealing, paddy on his final two years at Williams: https://youtu.be/j65L14gt19c
It's all worth a listen but the Williams stuff is in the last quarter.
He starts by saying he doesn't want to talk about it.. then goes on to talk about it quite a bit. No major surprises, obviously money was a key issue, but interesting to hear his views about the general attitude and talent level at the team at the time.
It's all worth a listen but the Williams stuff is in the last quarter.
He starts by saying he doesn't want to talk about it.. then goes on to talk about it quite a bit. No major surprises, obviously money was a key issue, but interesting to hear his views about the general attitude and talent level at the team at the time.
TheDeuce said:
Quite revealing, paddy on his final two years at Williams: https://youtu.be/j65L14gt19c
It's all worth a listen but the Williams stuff is in the last quarter.
He starts by saying he doesn't want to talk about it.. then goes on to talk about it quite a bit. No major surprises, obviously money was a key issue, but interesting to hear his views about the general attitude and talent level at the team at the time.
Sorry Deuce, completely disagree. Paddy was happy to talk about all the good years but not how it all went wrong at Williams, beyond the obvious poor process = poor car. As a TD, to have a car turn up late, illegal, and 4 seconds off the pace was unforgivable and I thought it was very poor he wouldn't share what exactly happened.It's all worth a listen but the Williams stuff is in the last quarter.
He starts by saying he doesn't want to talk about it.. then goes on to talk about it quite a bit. No major surprises, obviously money was a key issue, but interesting to hear his views about the general attitude and talent level at the team at the time.
Piginapoke said:
Sorry Deuce, completely disagree. Paddy was happy to talk about all the good years but not how it all went wrong at Williams, beyond the obvious poor process = poor car. As a TD, to have a car turn up late, illegal, and 4 seconds off the pace was unforgivable and I thought it was very poor he wouldn't share what exactly happened.
You don't hear the truth behind most goings on in top level teams in any sport or competitive environment, this is especially the case now. Too much money and too many people with vested interests involved to tell the real details.Piginapoke said:
TheDeuce said:
Quite revealing, paddy on his final two years at Williams: https://youtu.be/j65L14gt19c
It's all worth a listen but the Williams stuff is in the last quarter.
He starts by saying he doesn't want to talk about it.. then goes on to talk about it quite a bit. No major surprises, obviously money was a key issue, but interesting to hear his views about the general attitude and talent level at the team at the time.
Sorry Deuce, completely disagree. Paddy was happy to talk about all the good years but not how it all went wrong at Williams, beyond the obvious poor process = poor car. As a TD, to have a car turn up late, illegal, and 4 seconds off the pace was unforgivable and I thought it was very poor he wouldn't share what exactly happened.It's all worth a listen but the Williams stuff is in the last quarter.
He starts by saying he doesn't want to talk about it.. then goes on to talk about it quite a bit. No major surprises, obviously money was a key issue, but interesting to hear his views about the general attitude and talent level at the team at the time.
Piginapoke said:
TheDeuce said:
Quite revealing, paddy on his final two years at Williams: https://youtu.be/j65L14gt19c
It's all worth a listen but the Williams stuff is in the last quarter.
He starts by saying he doesn't want to talk about it.. then goes on to talk about it quite a bit. No major surprises, obviously money was a key issue, but interesting to hear his views about the general attitude and talent level at the team at the time.
Sorry Deuce, completely disagree. Paddy was happy to talk about all the good years but not how it all went wrong at Williams, beyond the obvious poor process = poor car. As a TD, to have a car turn up late, illegal, and 4 seconds off the pace was unforgivable and I thought it was very poor he wouldn't share what exactly happened.It's all worth a listen but the Williams stuff is in the last quarter.
He starts by saying he doesn't want to talk about it.. then goes on to talk about it quite a bit. No major surprises, obviously money was a key issue, but interesting to hear his views about the general attitude and talent level at the team at the time.
As for his delivery of the 2019 car, I think we'd have to be a bit basic to conclude all was on track at Williams up until the point paddy came along and ruined it all
We're not privy to the facts - but it seems very likely that the team had no real hope of delivering a suitable car irrespective of who took responsibility for it in the media. Paddy was bit one man, a single appointment. Against the fact that the entire outfit was already unsustainable and very much on the back foot at that point.
TheDeuce said:
What bit are you disagreeing about? I said he was initially short of talk and then loosened up a bit.. that's just what happened.
As for his delivery of the 2019 car, I think we'd have to be a bit basic to conclude all was on track at Williams up until the point paddy came along and ruined it all
We're not privy to the facts - but it seems very likely that the team had no real hope of delivering a suitable car irrespective of who took responsibility for it in the media. Paddy was bit one man, a single appointment. Against the fact that the entire outfit was already unsustainable and very much on the back foot at that point.
He was the boss? No one's saying he was going to produce a WDC car, but what happened under his watch was very poor. I didn't think it showed him in a good light to talk about everything else apart from that.As for his delivery of the 2019 car, I think we'd have to be a bit basic to conclude all was on track at Williams up until the point paddy came along and ruined it all
We're not privy to the facts - but it seems very likely that the team had no real hope of delivering a suitable car irrespective of who took responsibility for it in the media. Paddy was bit one man, a single appointment. Against the fact that the entire outfit was already unsustainable and very much on the back foot at that point.
Piginapoke said:
TheDeuce said:
What bit are you disagreeing about? I said he was initially short of talk and then loosened up a bit.. that's just what happened.
As for his delivery of the 2019 car, I think we'd have to be a bit basic to conclude all was on track at Williams up until the point paddy came along and ruined it all
We're not privy to the facts - but it seems very likely that the team had no real hope of delivering a suitable car irrespective of who took responsibility for it in the media. Paddy was bit one man, a single appointment. Against the fact that the entire outfit was already unsustainable and very much on the back foot at that point.
He was the boss? No one's saying he was going to produce a WDC car, but what happened under his watch was very poor. I didn't think it showed him in a good light to talk about everything else apart from that.As for his delivery of the 2019 car, I think we'd have to be a bit basic to conclude all was on track at Williams up until the point paddy came along and ruined it all
We're not privy to the facts - but it seems very likely that the team had no real hope of delivering a suitable car irrespective of who took responsibility for it in the media. Paddy was bit one man, a single appointment. Against the fact that the entire outfit was already unsustainable and very much on the back foot at that point.
You can only do so much when you have such limited resources to work with.
TheDeuce said:
Piginapoke said:
TheDeuce said:
What bit are you disagreeing about? I said he was initially short of talk and then loosened up a bit.. that's just what happened.
As for his delivery of the 2019 car, I think we'd have to be a bit basic to conclude all was on track at Williams up until the point paddy came along and ruined it all
We're not privy to the facts - but it seems very likely that the team had no real hope of delivering a suitable car irrespective of who took responsibility for it in the media. Paddy was bit one man, a single appointment. Against the fact that the entire outfit was already unsustainable and very much on the back foot at that point.
He was the boss? No one's saying he was going to produce a WDC car, but what happened under his watch was very poor. I didn't think it showed him in a good light to talk about everything else apart from that.As for his delivery of the 2019 car, I think we'd have to be a bit basic to conclude all was on track at Williams up until the point paddy came along and ruined it all
We're not privy to the facts - but it seems very likely that the team had no real hope of delivering a suitable car irrespective of who took responsibility for it in the media. Paddy was bit one man, a single appointment. Against the fact that the entire outfit was already unsustainable and very much on the back foot at that point.
You can only do so much when you have such limited resources to work with.
and at the end of the day why he should get all the crap similar to the quotes above for the last years of a dying team that the owners were too stubborn to accept, when all he was given to work with was as far as we know, an apprentice A level physics student and a pile of playdoh to create a car with.
rider73 said:
this
and at the end of the day why he should get all the crap similar to the quotes above for the last years of a dying team that the owners were too stubborn to accept, when all he was given to work with was as far as we know, an apprentice A level physics student and a pile of playdoh to create a car with.
We don't know what promises he made to them when interviewed for the job.and at the end of the day why he should get all the crap similar to the quotes above for the last years of a dying team that the owners were too stubborn to accept, when all he was given to work with was as far as we know, an apprentice A level physics student and a pile of playdoh to create a car with.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
rider73 said:
this
and at the end of the day why he should get all the crap similar to the quotes above for the last years of a dying team that the owners were too stubborn to accept, when all he was given to work with was as far as we know, an apprentice A level physics student and a pile of playdoh to create a car with.
We don't know what promises he made to them when interviewed for the job.and at the end of the day why he should get all the crap similar to the quotes above for the last years of a dying team that the owners were too stubborn to accept, when all he was given to work with was as far as we know, an apprentice A level physics student and a pile of playdoh to create a car with.
But also vice-versa. We simply don't know who promised who what.
What we do know is that paddy was the headline signing, and as such the first to be blamed if it went wrong, at least so far as the media are concerned..
I don't personally believe he was the failing of the Williams team though! He was just 'there'... The team had already failed, and stubbornly commited themselves to that failure.
TheDeuce said:
True...
But also vice-versa. We simply don't know who promised who what.
What we do know is that paddy was the headline signing, and as such the first to be blamed if it went wrong, at least so far as the media are concerned..
I don't personally believe he was the failing of the Williams team though! He was just 'there'... The team had already failed, and stubbornly commited themselves to that failure.
We also don't know whether Lowe was up to the job. It may be Williams couldn't have been helped by anybody. It might be that someone of sufficient capability could have avoided the failures Lowe suffered. We just don't know, it's purely conjecture.But also vice-versa. We simply don't know who promised who what.
What we do know is that paddy was the headline signing, and as such the first to be blamed if it went wrong, at least so far as the media are concerned..
I don't personally believe he was the failing of the Williams team though! He was just 'there'... The team had already failed, and stubbornly commited themselves to that failure.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
e also don't know whether Lowe was up to the job. It may be Williams couldn't have been helped by anybody. It might be that someone of sufficient capability could have avoided the failures Lowe suffered. We just don't know, it's purely conjecture.
I just don’t think he was up to the job. Out of his depth tbh but in the right environment could be a useful asset RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
TheDeuce said:
True...
But also vice-versa. We simply don't know who promised who what.
What we do know is that paddy was the headline signing, and as such the first to be blamed if it went wrong, at least so far as the media are concerned..
I don't personally believe he was the failing of the Williams team though! He was just 'there'... The team had already failed, and stubbornly commited themselves to that failure.
We also don't know whether Lowe was up to the job. It may be Williams couldn't have been helped by anybody. It might be that someone of sufficient capability could have avoided the failures Lowe suffered. We just don't know, it's purely conjecture.But also vice-versa. We simply don't know who promised who what.
What we do know is that paddy was the headline signing, and as such the first to be blamed if it went wrong, at least so far as the media are concerned..
I don't personally believe he was the failing of the Williams team though! He was just 'there'... The team had already failed, and stubbornly commited themselves to that failure.
I only posted the podcast as it's the first time Paddy has spoken about it at all, and it was relevant to a lot that was debated in this thread. I have no bias regards if he did/didn't perform well in his role.
Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 4th May 08:57
rider73 said:
errr this is the same Paddy Lowe that was at McLaren for 20 years and Mercedes for 4 , both of who were extremely successful with him on board....
He was also instrumental in developing the active suspension for Williams. He was head of a department not overseeing lots of them. That’s where he failed imgo. Smollet said:
rider73 said:
errr this is the same Paddy Lowe that was at McLaren for 20 years and Mercedes for 4 , both of who were extremely successful with him on board....
He was also instrumental in developing the active suspension for Williams. He was head of a department not overseeing lots of them. That’s where he failed imgo. For all we know, at the time he was settling in to the role, HOD's beneath him were fleeing for other teams. Or maybe he and the team got everything right but budget issues numbed and delayed the results each step of the way.
Is there actually a reason to assume it was his fault other than 'he was the guy in charge'? Because on that basis it was all Claire's fault
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