Williams F1

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Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
quotequote all
I don't think anyone can question Paddy's credentials. A 25 year record with winning teams sees to that.

I listened to the podcast and he seems to very much allude to needing time and investment to turn the team around and of a decline that began years before he arrived that was masked by the excellent Mercedes hybrid engine.

He seemed to intimate that he was expected to metaphorically wave some kind of magic wand to attract talent and turn results around, all with little investment.

It's too simplistic to say "he was the boss, the buck stops with him"

I think he had an impossible job. If you'd held Ross Brawn's wife to ransom to get him in that job, I don't think the results in '18/'19 would have been much different.

Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
quotequote all
Smollet said:
rider73 said:
errr this is the same Paddy Lowe that was at McLaren for 20 years and Mercedes for 4 , both of who were extremely successful with him on board....
He was also instrumental in developing the active suspension for Williams. He was head of a department not overseeing lots of them. That’s where he failed imgo.
You realise that Paddy took the role of Engineering Director at McLaren in 2005, overseeing all engineering, then Technical Director in 2011?

He knows how to oversee lots of departments.....

Smollet

10,467 posts

189 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Smollet said:
rider73 said:
errr this is the same Paddy Lowe that was at McLaren for 20 years and Mercedes for 4 , both of who were extremely successful with him on board....
He was also instrumental in developing the active suspension for Williams. He was head of a department not overseeing lots of them. That’s where he failed imgo.
You realise that Paddy took the role of Engineering Director at McLaren in 2005, overseeing all engineering, then Technical Director in 2011?

He knows how to oversee lots of departments.....
Fair point. Perhaps he just did well in a successful environment but not one on its knees

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
quotequote all
It's one job working in an organisation, growing with it and your responsibility increasing over time, being a product of that environment. It's a very different one walking into an organisation from cold, spotting what needs to change and bringing the staff and resources along with you to effect that change.

entropy

5,404 posts

202 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
I don't think anyone can question Paddy's credentials. A 25 year record with winning teams sees to that.

I listened to the podcast and he seems to very much allude to needing time and investment to turn the team around and of a decline that began years before he arrived that was masked by the excellent Mercedes hybrid engine.

He seemed to intimate that he was expected to metaphorically wave some kind of magic wand to attract talent and turn results around, all with little investment.

It's too simplistic to say "he was the boss, the buck stops with him"

I think he had an impossible job. If you'd held Ross Brawn's wife to ransom to get him in that job, I don't think the results in '18/'19 would have been much different.
I get the impression Williams were immediately expecting a silver bullet from Paddy.

n3il123

2,602 posts

212 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
quotequote all
entropy said:
I get the impression Williams were immediately expecting a silver bullet from Paddy.
Or at least a car that was legal.

TheDeuce

21,275 posts

65 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
quotequote all
n3il123 said:
entropy said:
I get the impression Williams were immediately expecting a silver bullet from Paddy.
Or at least a car that was legal.
In the Netflix series there is footage of them gloating about how clever the fancy wing mirrors are... Oops!

Makes you wonder how it was even possible to get such a thing wrong. Maybe because "Paddy said it was ok" and no one else challenged that - but shouldn't a team of 700 odd people have dedicated legal bods to review areas of development that are going to potentially be contentious under the regs...? The fact there was no debate when the car arrived in Spain, they simply declared the design illegal and Williams accepted it is just bizarre. Should they not have had a counter argument as to why the parts were legal?

Such amateurish behaviour does give the impression that the team as a unit was off the boil.

Piginapoke

4,737 posts

184 months

Tuesday 4th May 2021
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
TheDeuce said:
True...

But also vice-versa. We simply don't know who promised who what.

What we do know is that paddy was the headline signing, and as such the first to be blamed if it went wrong, at least so far as the media are concerned..

I don't personally believe he was the failing of the Williams team though! He was just 'there'... The team had already failed, and stubbornly commited themselves to that failure.
We also don't know whether Lowe was up to the job. It may be Williams couldn't have been helped by anybody. It might be that someone of sufficient capability could have avoided the failures Lowe suffered. We just don't know, it's purely conjecture.
You're right, I totally agree. I've disagreed with the assertion it was his fault, on the basis that we don't know - and therefore shouldn't assign blame in either direction. We just don't know.

I only posted the podcast as it's the first time Paddy has spoken about it at all, and it was relevant to a lot that was debated in this thread. I have no bias regards if he did/didn't perform well in his role.

Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 4th May 08:57
I'm not saying whether the William's failure was/was not Paddy's fault (although as TD he must carry the can for the late and illegal car). I'm just saying he dealt with it an an unfortunate way in the Podcast. If there is an NDA, he should have said instead of just not wanting to talk about it.

TheDeuce

21,275 posts

65 months

Wednesday 9th June 2021
quotequote all
All change at the top! (again)..

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breakin...

Simon Roberts to depart.

leef44

4,359 posts

152 months

Thursday 17th June 2021
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
All change at the top! (again)..

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breakin...

Simon Roberts to depart.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57413755

This is interesting. Roberts was in transition role. Capito does his own due diligence and works out that engineering and racing departments are not aligned. Was this the problem all along?

Were the Williams family too self proud to recognise this and not change with the times?

TheDeuce

21,275 posts

65 months

Thursday 17th June 2021
quotequote all
leef44 said:
TheDeuce said:
All change at the top! (again)..

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breakin...

Simon Roberts to depart.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57413755

This is interesting. Roberts was in transition role. Capito does his own due diligence and works out that engineering and racing departments are not aligned. Was this the problem all along?

Were the Williams family too self proud to recognise this and not change with the times?
It may have been one of the problems resultant of years of slightly wonky management.

I think stubborn pride manifested itself in all sorts of unhelpful ways during the demise years. It's hard to not give most credit to the fact that they maintained a team with the staffing and facility resources of a top team, even when they were struggling to achieve the budget of a back marker team. That can't have left very much £££ for the car itself regardless of different departments not being aligned perfectly..

Anyway, all history now. Although now it's not owned by the namesake family I do find it a little hard to have all that much interest in the teams future tbh. I can only get so excited by a team run almost directly by accountants.

rallycross

12,747 posts

236 months

Friday 18th June 2021
quotequote all
What’s Claire Williams doing now any know (or guess ?)

cuprabob

14,422 posts

213 months

Friday 18th June 2021
quotequote all
rallycross said:
What’s Claire Williams doing now any know (or guess ?)
I would suspect she is looking after her father and spending time with her family.

mick987

1,247 posts

109 months

Friday 18th June 2021
quotequote all
rallycross said:
What’s Claire Williams doing now any know (or guess ?)
Going for long walks and having a picnic with her brother or maybe not.

thegreenhell

15,115 posts

218 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
I think I found part of their problem...

Jost Capito said:
I talked to more than 80 managers...
How many managers does one team need?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-explai...

FourWheelDrift

88,382 posts

283 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
I think I found part of their problem...

Jost Capito said:
I talked to more than 80 managers...
How many managers does one team need?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-explai...
“I talked to more than 80 managers in one-to-one meetings, and I asked them all the same questions. So I got a good overview what we should change, what we should keep."

Turkey's voting for Christmas.

skwdenyer

16,181 posts

239 months

Wednesday 23rd June 2021
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
I think I found part of their problem...

Jost Capito said:
I talked to more than 80 managers...
How many managers does one team need?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-explai...
Williams appears to be / have been organised very much along old-school engineering company lines. Modern flat structures seem notably absent.

Kraken

1,710 posts

199 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
quotequote all
Pretty disappointed in Williams and in Capito reading that article. People wanting the guy at the technical top to be someone who has done every job below him is such an old fashioned British shop floor attitude.


TheDeuce

21,275 posts

65 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
thegreenhell said:
I think I found part of their problem...

Jost Capito said:
I talked to more than 80 managers...
How many managers does one team need?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-explai...
“I talked to more than 80 managers in one-to-one meetings, and I asked them all the same questions. So I got a good overview what we should change, what we should keep."

Turkey's voting for Christmas.
yes

"I've asked 80 people that are used to working in an archaic team, run by stubborn dictators, what I should do to fix it"

That's a terrible approach imo. By all means observe the HOD's and be aware of their strengths and requirements - but don't actually ask them what to do or even let them know changes are afoot that they could directly influence. At least half of whatever each one says will be on some level self serving.

He hardly going to threaten Toto's reputation as a gifted and innovative leader is he..?

stemll

4,065 posts

199 months

Thursday 24th June 2021
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
FourWheelDrift said:
thegreenhell said:
I think I found part of their problem...

Jost Capito said:
I talked to more than 80 managers...
How many managers does one team need?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-explai...
“I talked to more than 80 managers in one-to-one meetings, and I asked them all the same questions. So I got a good overview what we should change, what we should keep."

Turkey's voting for Christmas.
yes

"I've asked 80 people that are used to working in an archaic team, run by stubborn dictators, what I should do to fix it"

That's a terrible approach imo. By all means observe the HOD's and be aware of their strengths and requirements - but don't actually ask them what to do or even let them know changes are afoot that they could directly influence. At least half of whatever each one says will be on some level self serving.

He hardly going to threaten Toto's reputation as a gifted and innovative leader is he..?
Nowhere does it say that they were asked what should change just that they were all asked the same questions. Also, nowhere does it say that he will do anything that any of them suggested. He hardly needs to let anyone know that changes are coming, that goes without saying.