Williams F1

Williams F1

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TheDeuce

9,108 posts

31 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
TheDeuce said:
True...

But also vice-versa. We simply don't know who promised who what.

What we do know is that paddy was the headline signing, and as such the first to be blamed if it went wrong, at least so far as the media are concerned..

I don't personally believe he was the failing of the Williams team though! He was just 'there'... The team had already failed, and stubbornly commited themselves to that failure.
We also don't know whether Lowe was up to the job. It may be Williams couldn't have been helped by anybody. It might be that someone of sufficient capability could have avoided the failures Lowe suffered. We just don't know, it's purely conjecture.
You're right, I totally agree. I've disagreed with the assertion it was his fault, on the basis that we don't know - and therefore shouldn't assign blame in either direction. We just don't know.

I only posted the podcast as it's the first time Paddy has spoken about it at all, and it was relevant to a lot that was debated in this thread. I have no bias regards if he did/didn't perform well in his role.

Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 4th May 08:57

Smollet

6,300 posts

155 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
rider73 said:
errr this is the same Paddy Lowe that was at McLaren for 20 years and Mercedes for 4 , both of who were extremely successful with him on board....
He was also instrumental in developing the active suspension for Williams. He was head of a department not overseeing lots of them. That’s where he failed imgo.

TheDeuce

9,108 posts

31 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Smollet said:
rider73 said:
errr this is the same Paddy Lowe that was at McLaren for 20 years and Mercedes for 4 , both of who were extremely successful with him on board....
He was also instrumental in developing the active suspension for Williams. He was head of a department not overseeing lots of them. That’s where he failed imgo.
Might be the case - although we still wouldn't know if it was a limitation of his abilities, or a failure of the support structure beneath him.

For all we know, at the time he was settling in to the role, HOD's beneath him were fleeing for other teams. Or maybe he and the team got everything right but budget issues numbed and delayed the results each step of the way.

Is there actually a reason to assume it was his fault other than 'he was the guy in charge'? Because on that basis it was all Claire's fault smile

Muzzer79

4,655 posts

152 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
I don't think anyone can question Paddy's credentials. A 25 year record with winning teams sees to that.

I listened to the podcast and he seems to very much allude to needing time and investment to turn the team around and of a decline that began years before he arrived that was masked by the excellent Mercedes hybrid engine.

He seemed to intimate that he was expected to metaphorically wave some kind of magic wand to attract talent and turn results around, all with little investment.

It's too simplistic to say "he was the boss, the buck stops with him"

I think he had an impossible job. If you'd held Ross Brawn's wife to ransom to get him in that job, I don't think the results in '18/'19 would have been much different.

Muzzer79

4,655 posts

152 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Smollet said:
rider73 said:
errr this is the same Paddy Lowe that was at McLaren for 20 years and Mercedes for 4 , both of who were extremely successful with him on board....
He was also instrumental in developing the active suspension for Williams. He was head of a department not overseeing lots of them. That’s where he failed imgo.
You realise that Paddy took the role of Engineering Director at McLaren in 2005, overseeing all engineering, then Technical Director in 2011?

He knows how to oversee lots of departments.....

Smollet

6,300 posts

155 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Smollet said:
rider73 said:
errr this is the same Paddy Lowe that was at McLaren for 20 years and Mercedes for 4 , both of who were extremely successful with him on board....
He was also instrumental in developing the active suspension for Williams. He was head of a department not overseeing lots of them. That’s where he failed imgo.
You realise that Paddy took the role of Engineering Director at McLaren in 2005, overseeing all engineering, then Technical Director in 2011?

He knows how to oversee lots of departments.....
Fair point. Perhaps he just did well in a successful environment but not one on its knees

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat

12,195 posts

60 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
It's one job working in an organisation, growing with it and your responsibility increasing over time, being a product of that environment. It's a very different one walking into an organisation from cold, spotting what needs to change and bringing the staff and resources along with you to effect that change.

entropy

4,135 posts

168 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
I don't think anyone can question Paddy's credentials. A 25 year record with winning teams sees to that.

I listened to the podcast and he seems to very much allude to needing time and investment to turn the team around and of a decline that began years before he arrived that was masked by the excellent Mercedes hybrid engine.

He seemed to intimate that he was expected to metaphorically wave some kind of magic wand to attract talent and turn results around, all with little investment.

It's too simplistic to say "he was the boss, the buck stops with him"

I think he had an impossible job. If you'd held Ross Brawn's wife to ransom to get him in that job, I don't think the results in '18/'19 would have been much different.
I get the impression Williams were immediately expecting a silver bullet from Paddy.

n3il123

2,155 posts

178 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
entropy said:
I get the impression Williams were immediately expecting a silver bullet from Paddy.
Or at least a car that was legal.

TheDeuce

9,108 posts

31 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
n3il123 said:
entropy said:
I get the impression Williams were immediately expecting a silver bullet from Paddy.
Or at least a car that was legal.
In the Netflix series there is footage of them gloating about how clever the fancy wing mirrors are... Oops!

Makes you wonder how it was even possible to get such a thing wrong. Maybe because "Paddy said it was ok" and no one else challenged that - but shouldn't a team of 700 odd people have dedicated legal bods to review areas of development that are going to potentially be contentious under the regs...? The fact there was no debate when the car arrived in Spain, they simply declared the design illegal and Williams accepted it is just bizarre. Should they not have had a counter argument as to why the parts were legal?

Such amateurish behaviour does give the impression that the team as a unit was off the boil.

Piginapoke

1,881 posts

150 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
TheDeuce said:
True...

But also vice-versa. We simply don't know who promised who what.

What we do know is that paddy was the headline signing, and as such the first to be blamed if it went wrong, at least so far as the media are concerned..

I don't personally believe he was the failing of the Williams team though! He was just 'there'... The team had already failed, and stubbornly commited themselves to that failure.
We also don't know whether Lowe was up to the job. It may be Williams couldn't have been helped by anybody. It might be that someone of sufficient capability could have avoided the failures Lowe suffered. We just don't know, it's purely conjecture.
You're right, I totally agree. I've disagreed with the assertion it was his fault, on the basis that we don't know - and therefore shouldn't assign blame in either direction. We just don't know.

I only posted the podcast as it's the first time Paddy has spoken about it at all, and it was relevant to a lot that was debated in this thread. I have no bias regards if he did/didn't perform well in his role.

Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 4th May 08:57
I'm not saying whether the William's failure was/was not Paddy's fault (although as TD he must carry the can for the late and illegal car). I'm just saying he dealt with it an an unfortunate way in the Podcast. If there is an NDA, he should have said instead of just not wanting to talk about it.