Discussion
Munter said:
Factory backing from Ferrari. Same as HaaS.
Merc could try and swoop in and do the same with Williams ... but it's probably easier to negotiate it with Racing Point.
Only if Williams would accept being a junior team. Which Claire has stated will never happen. Even though, in the end, she may have no choice.Merc could try and swoop in and do the same with Williams ... but it's probably easier to negotiate it with Racing Point.
RichB said:
With perhaps Sauber/Alfa Romeo being the exception that proves the rule? Funnily with them having a red bar against the driver's name I often say VET/RAI together in the timings and almost thought the Ferraris were together again!
Same. And Kimi ended in P6, just behind Seb! Excellent performance. The other Alfa P15.. Munter said:
Factory backing from Ferrari. Same as HaaS.
Merc could try and swoop in and do the same with Williams ... but it's probably easier to negotiate it with Racing Point.
At least it would have been with Ocon in the seat, probably not so much now, especially when George Russell is a Merc junior driver it actually would be easier with Williams now but Claire isn't doing them any favors. I hate to admit it like many others but she needs to go, in any other team, she would already be gone!Merc could try and swoop in and do the same with Williams ... but it's probably easier to negotiate it with Racing Point.
Her and Frank need to back out of it. Sell shares sufficient for new owners to take control. I'm pretty sure once the deal was done, they would end up effectively a Mercedes B team.
I'm sure if you mentioned that idea to Frank or Claire you would be have heavy objects and expletives hurled at you. But what is their other option? Carry on as they are? Right now, they are not racing, they are not on the grid in any capacity other than to make up the numbers. One has to question what it is they're so determined to hang on to at this stage. Their history? Right now they are simply eroding the Williams history.
They're also eroding the value of the team for the day that they have zero option but to sell out.
I'm sure if you mentioned that idea to Frank or Claire you would be have heavy objects and expletives hurled at you. But what is their other option? Carry on as they are? Right now, they are not racing, they are not on the grid in any capacity other than to make up the numbers. One has to question what it is they're so determined to hang on to at this stage. Their history? Right now they are simply eroding the Williams history.
They're also eroding the value of the team for the day that they have zero option but to sell out.
Wow, just watched Russel and Kubica interviewed after FP2.
Kubica just admitted that the car is still using damaged parts from Barcelona! And that as a result, they have to "keep away from kurbs" as they have no spares.
Russell too resorted to further brutal honesty with "I will be very surprised if we qualify above last - we're just slow"
This damaged happened two weeks ago!? How can they have a staff of 600, and I think 3 autoclave's and not be able to get some new parts made?
I know the rumours they were begging for parts (the foam, to form the carbon elements) were hard to believe, but this all but confirms it.
I would almost argue they aren't 'at' this race weekend. Turning up with cars with damaged parts and telling your drivers to avoid bumps and kerbs isn't really turning up to race is it?
Kubica just admitted that the car is still using damaged parts from Barcelona! And that as a result, they have to "keep away from kurbs" as they have no spares.
Russell too resorted to further brutal honesty with "I will be very surprised if we qualify above last - we're just slow"
This damaged happened two weeks ago!? How can they have a staff of 600, and I think 3 autoclave's and not be able to get some new parts made?
I know the rumours they were begging for parts (the foam, to form the carbon elements) were hard to believe, but this all but confirms it.
I would almost argue they aren't 'at' this race weekend. Turning up with cars with damaged parts and telling your drivers to avoid bumps and kerbs isn't really turning up to race is it?
TheDeuce said:
Wow, just watched Russel and Kubica interviewed after FP2.
Kubica just admitted that the car is still using damaged parts from Barcelona! And that as a result, they have to "keep away from kurbs" as they have no spares.
Russell too resorted to further brutal honesty with "I will be very surprised if we qualify above last - we're just slow"
This damaged happened two weeks ago!? How can they have a staff of 600, and I think 3 autoclave's and not be able to get some new parts made?
I know the rumours they were begging for parts (the foam, to form the carbon elements) were hard to believe, but this all but confirms it.
I would almost argue they aren't 'at' this race weekend. Turning up with cars with damaged parts and telling your drivers to avoid bumps and kerbs isn't really turning up to race is it?
Did he say that? The interview I read said that the damage was the same cause as in Barcelona, i.e. kerbs, suggesting that they haven't as yet redesigned and/or manufactured new parts. Not the he was using the same parts from Barcelona.Kubica just admitted that the car is still using damaged parts from Barcelona! And that as a result, they have to "keep away from kurbs" as they have no spares.
Russell too resorted to further brutal honesty with "I will be very surprised if we qualify above last - we're just slow"
This damaged happened two weeks ago!? How can they have a staff of 600, and I think 3 autoclave's and not be able to get some new parts made?
I know the rumours they were begging for parts (the foam, to form the carbon elements) were hard to believe, but this all but confirms it.
I would almost argue they aren't 'at' this race weekend. Turning up with cars with damaged parts and telling your drivers to avoid bumps and kerbs isn't really turning up to race is it?
He also suggested that they were having to repair rather than replace due to a lack of spares. Whether that means he has to start the race with repaired parts, or whether they're holding-back new parts for the race I don't know.
TheDeuce said:
garythesign said:
Teddy Lop said:
that's all really interesting, I was under the impression it was a bit like ex military jets where 50, 100 year old stuff is fairly straightforward for blokes with grease under their fingernails to keep chugging away but the stuff that retired yesterday is so mega complicated and generally worn out too that only insane resources not generally available to enthusiasts will keep it going.
Do you modify the engines much for usability? I'm thinking the incredible tolerance they run too (seized when cold etc)
if you wanted to start a separate thread to post about what you get up to I'm sure I'd be well received.
The last line - I fully agree with this sentiment.Do you modify the engines much for usability? I'm thinking the incredible tolerance they run too (seized when cold etc)
if you wanted to start a separate thread to post about what you get up to I'm sure I'd be well received.
Reading information from experts is fascinating.
I love motor sport, especially F1, but I really hate the ‘my driver is better than your driver’ comments.
skwdenyer said:
TheDeuce said:
Wow, just watched Russel and Kubica interviewed after FP2.
Kubica just admitted that the car is still using damaged parts from Barcelona! And that as a result, they have to "keep away from kurbs" as they have no spares.
Russell too resorted to further brutal honesty with "I will be very surprised if we qualify above last - we're just slow"
This damaged happened two weeks ago!? How can they have a staff of 600, and I think 3 autoclave's and not be able to get some new parts made?
I know the rumours they were begging for parts (the foam, to form the carbon elements) were hard to believe, but this all but confirms it.
I would almost argue they aren't 'at' this race weekend. Turning up with cars with damaged parts and telling your drivers to avoid bumps and kerbs isn't really turning up to race is it?
Did he say that? The interview I read said that the damage was the same cause as in Barcelona, i.e. kerbs, suggesting that they haven't as yet redesigned and/or manufactured new parts. Not the he was using the same parts from Barcelona.Kubica just admitted that the car is still using damaged parts from Barcelona! And that as a result, they have to "keep away from kurbs" as they have no spares.
Russell too resorted to further brutal honesty with "I will be very surprised if we qualify above last - we're just slow"
This damaged happened two weeks ago!? How can they have a staff of 600, and I think 3 autoclave's and not be able to get some new parts made?
I know the rumours they were begging for parts (the foam, to form the carbon elements) were hard to believe, but this all but confirms it.
I would almost argue they aren't 'at' this race weekend. Turning up with cars with damaged parts and telling your drivers to avoid bumps and kerbs isn't really turning up to race is it?
He also suggested that they were having to repair rather than replace due to a lack of spares. Whether that means he has to start the race with repaired parts, or whether they're holding-back new parts for the race I don't know.
That would be better than using Barcelona parts indeed. Although, it also means that even a factory fresh car can't use the kerbs..
I don't know which is worse actually.
I don't think anyone expected the car to be fast. But I did expect structural soundness at least. Explains the lack of long runs in testing.
If they were a horse they would be shot.
Billionaire investor/ major investor of sponsor space /and provider of a son with a 10yr + future racing career, na let him buy another team.
Head of car performance, na, rid of him too.
Invite a senior member of staff to the board whom has 20+ yrs experience with championship winning teams, na, gardening leave.
No spare parts, no raw materials to build new parts.
Ocon made the right choice in swerving this mess.
Billionaire investor/ major investor of sponsor space /and provider of a son with a 10yr + future racing career, na let him buy another team.
Head of car performance, na, rid of him too.
Invite a senior member of staff to the board whom has 20+ yrs experience with championship winning teams, na, gardening leave.
No spare parts, no raw materials to build new parts.
Ocon made the right choice in swerving this mess.
TheDeuce said:
Her and Frank need to back out of it. Sell shares sufficient for new owners to take control. I'm pretty sure once the deal was done, they would end up effectively a Mercedes B team.
I'm sure if you mentioned that idea to Frank or Claire you would be have heavy objects and expletives hurled at you. But what is their other option? Carry on as they are? Right now, they are not racing, they are not on the grid in any capacity other than to make up the numbers. One has to question what it is they're so determined to hang on to at this stage. Their history? Right now they are simply eroding the Williams history.
They're also eroding the value of the team for the day that they have zero option but to sell out.
Take a look at this re b Teams... see from 3.07I'm sure if you mentioned that idea to Frank or Claire you would be have heavy objects and expletives hurled at you. But what is their other option? Carry on as they are? Right now, they are not racing, they are not on the grid in any capacity other than to make up the numbers. One has to question what it is they're so determined to hang on to at this stage. Their history? Right now they are simply eroding the Williams history.
They're also eroding the value of the team for the day that they have zero option but to sell out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nFyL24tVao
Kubica isn't happy. And he keeps expanding what he is willing to be honest about.
He says the cars current fragility is the same issue as in Barcelona, yet in Barcelona he chose not to reveal as much. Between now and then something has pushed him to be very honest about it. He looked sad/irritated in that interview.
2 weeks ago we were coming to the conclusion that in reality, Melbourne was just going to be the testing that they missed at Barcelona. But it's not even that, the car's still not fit to be tested. It can't go race distance without breaking. Not even half race distance.
Should a car with little to no hope of getting to the end of a race safely be allowed to race? God, I would have loved old Charlie's views on that question..
He says the cars current fragility is the same issue as in Barcelona, yet in Barcelona he chose not to reveal as much. Between now and then something has pushed him to be very honest about it. He looked sad/irritated in that interview.
2 weeks ago we were coming to the conclusion that in reality, Melbourne was just going to be the testing that they missed at Barcelona. But it's not even that, the car's still not fit to be tested. It can't go race distance without breaking. Not even half race distance.
Should a car with little to no hope of getting to the end of a race safely be allowed to race? God, I would have loved old Charlie's views on that question..
Deesee said:
If they were a horse they would be shot.
Billionaire investor/ major investor of sponsor space /and provider of a son with a 10yr + future racing career, na let him buy another team.
Head of car performance, na, rid of him too.
Invite a senior member of staff to the board whom has 20+ yrs experience with championship winning teams, na, gardening leave.
No spare parts, no raw materials to build new parts.
Ocon made the right choice in swerving this mess.
You're suggesting they had a choice re Stroll. He may have looked at "area under the curve" and decided that FI was just a better business deal all round.Billionaire investor/ major investor of sponsor space /and provider of a son with a 10yr + future racing career, na let him buy another team.
Head of car performance, na, rid of him too.
Invite a senior member of staff to the board whom has 20+ yrs experience with championship winning teams, na, gardening leave.
No spare parts, no raw materials to build new parts.
Ocon made the right choice in swerving this mess.
skwdenyer said:
Deesee said:
If they were a horse they would be shot.
Billionaire investor/ major investor of sponsor space /and provider of a son with a 10yr + future racing career, na let him buy another team.
Head of car performance, na, rid of him too.
Invite a senior member of staff to the board whom has 20+ yrs experience with championship winning teams, na, gardening leave.
No spare parts, no raw materials to build new parts.
Ocon made the right choice in swerving this mess.
You're suggesting they had a choice re Stroll. He may have looked at "area under the curve" and decided that FI was just a better business deal all round.Billionaire investor/ major investor of sponsor space /and provider of a son with a 10yr + future racing career, na let him buy another team.
Head of car performance, na, rid of him too.
Invite a senior member of staff to the board whom has 20+ yrs experience with championship winning teams, na, gardening leave.
No spare parts, no raw materials to build new parts.
Ocon made the right choice in swerving this mess.
FI is and (ongoing) a curious case, the reality is under law the racing licence should have been withdrawn with the insolvency, I think they may have created future problems in future years with other teams that may fail and by whitewashing through the administration process all previous debts are settled, and almost forgotten.
However what is done is done, and only time will tell, Stroll has taken all his sponsors and any potential investment.
HighwayStar said:
Take a look at this re b Teams... see from 3.07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nFyL24tVao
Thank you, I had already watched that (I watch all his videos - he's worth listening to), and I see they want to avoid b-team culture, but so long as there are customer teams, there will be a way for the manufacturers to exert some influence. And in order to 'assist' the customer team with packaging, there will be plenty of two way chats that the manufacturer can learn from.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nFyL24tVao
From the article I read about Kubica on Motorsport.com, it seems like the floor of the car has been damaged. It'll be fixed for Saturday apparently, but this line is quite confusing/telling:
It is understood that damage picked up can be repaired for Saturday and Williams does not face a spares shortage, although Kubica said the team did not have "a lot of spares".
So you don't have a spares shortage, but you don't have a lot of spares either? What's that? I don't know where the first part of that sentance came from, but it was certaintly contradicted by Kubica.
This leaves us with a glaring issue with Williams (I Think): The team have cashflow issues so are doing the bare minimum to get a car on the grid.
It might very well be the cars are going to run that little bit slower to just not squeeze within 107% tomorrow, so that they don't have to participate in the grand prix on Sunday and so they can go home and maybe come back with a proper car with actual spare parts for the next race. Something like what Arrows did a few years ago, except actually post a qualifying time and not just go out on an out lap and come back in.
For a team where the Deputy principle said their best chance of scoring a point in Monaco was for there to be a massive pile up in front of them, I don't think it would be beyond the possibility.
It is understood that damage picked up can be repaired for Saturday and Williams does not face a spares shortage, although Kubica said the team did not have "a lot of spares".
So you don't have a spares shortage, but you don't have a lot of spares either? What's that? I don't know where the first part of that sentance came from, but it was certaintly contradicted by Kubica.
This leaves us with a glaring issue with Williams (I Think): The team have cashflow issues so are doing the bare minimum to get a car on the grid.
It might very well be the cars are going to run that little bit slower to just not squeeze within 107% tomorrow, so that they don't have to participate in the grand prix on Sunday and so they can go home and maybe come back with a proper car with actual spare parts for the next race. Something like what Arrows did a few years ago, except actually post a qualifying time and not just go out on an out lap and come back in.
For a team where the Deputy principle said their best chance of scoring a point in Monaco was for there to be a massive pile up in front of them, I don't think it would be beyond the possibility.
I think factory backed teams will not stick around.
Factory Teams are all ready jumping into Formula E, and with the Sky pay wall not helping viewing figures the appeal of F1 is on a downward trend.
(I am an F1 fan btw) The overall show has been poor for the last few season (4-9 years).
Whether Williams can hold out, or jump ship else where who knows - are budget in FE significantly less?
F1 may well be independent only teams in the next 4-5 years.
Factory Teams are all ready jumping into Formula E, and with the Sky pay wall not helping viewing figures the appeal of F1 is on a downward trend.
(I am an F1 fan btw) The overall show has been poor for the last few season (4-9 years).
Whether Williams can hold out, or jump ship else where who knows - are budget in FE significantly less?
F1 may well be independent only teams in the next 4-5 years.
Henry Fiddleton said:
are budget in FE significantly less?
An order of magnitude less because the chassis and aero are all standardised as is some of the drivetrain. Whether that will remain the case remains to be seen. If the big manufacturers get heavily involved I could easily see it going the way of F1 with more and more bespoke components and spiraling budgets to develop them.Of course the other possibility is that F1 goes electric.
Edited by kambites on Friday 15th March 13:56
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