Discussion
Also enjoying this series. Very sorry we will not have Ocon driving this year & pretty suprised Grosjean has kept his seat. The Hass team seem to have been very frustrated by his erratic performances, and he himself seems to be a bit fragile. Fast on a good day but more likely to do something erratic and crash while suffering from a borderline victim mentality. I hope he has a good season though and rewards the Hass teams descision to keep him with low repar bills and a good points haul. I suppose Ocon is limited in where he can go by his Mercedes ties? If I was running Hass he would have Grosjeans seat ! but perhaps impossible to put a Merc driver in a Ferrari engined car.
Vaud said:
Ocon will replace Bottas next year... my guess.
Is he as consistent as bottas though? Bottas is a pretty consistent 2nd/3rd place bet, hoovering up points most races, if not getting much glory.I suppose we don't really know how consistent he might be. But bottas has been a very safe bet each season for Mercedes.
It's a surprising warts and look under the hood of F1 I think. Anyone who's worked/driven in motorsport would recognise the team dynamics replicated in pit lanes all over the world. I can't honestly say that the British GT paddock isn't much less dramatic than F1!
Genuinely interesting to see that the general consensus about Horner seems to be correct, and equally frustrating to see the same old issues with money being the deciding factor. The reality is that absolutely no one gets a drive these days unless they bring money, even at the F1 level. Albon, Norris et al are all absolutely minted/have minted relatives/friends or sponsors. I've been lucky to be in that position in the past where I brought near enough unlimited budget in sponsorship and it was great.....but you soon find out that when it runs out/ends, there aren't many favors left!
Overall I think it's a fantastically well made series. I'm really surprised they were allowed the access they were....most team managers would cringe at the thought of people seeing how they talk to their teams/staff. Motorsport is a high stress world, where people are overworked and tired.....I can honestly say that you could probably class Horner and Steiner as 'controlled' in the context of many team bosses.
Oh....and Zak Brown seems about as useful as a wet lettuce leaf. I'm not surprised McLaren are struggling....
Genuinely interesting to see that the general consensus about Horner seems to be correct, and equally frustrating to see the same old issues with money being the deciding factor. The reality is that absolutely no one gets a drive these days unless they bring money, even at the F1 level. Albon, Norris et al are all absolutely minted/have minted relatives/friends or sponsors. I've been lucky to be in that position in the past where I brought near enough unlimited budget in sponsorship and it was great.....but you soon find out that when it runs out/ends, there aren't many favors left!
Overall I think it's a fantastically well made series. I'm really surprised they were allowed the access they were....most team managers would cringe at the thought of people seeing how they talk to their teams/staff. Motorsport is a high stress world, where people are overworked and tired.....I can honestly say that you could probably class Horner and Steiner as 'controlled' in the context of many team bosses.
Oh....and Zak Brown seems about as useful as a wet lettuce leaf. I'm not surprised McLaren are struggling....
TheDeuce said:
Vaud said:
Ocon will replace Bottas next year... my guess.
Is he as consistent as bottas though? Bottas is a pretty consistent 2nd/3rd place bet, hoovering up points most races, if not getting much glory.I suppose we don't really know how consistent he might be. But bottas has been a very safe bet each season for Mercedes.
I know Bottas moved over once or twice but still...
Bottas had a shocker last season and can't afford another. He was consistent, albeit consistently about fourth.
I hope he turns in a better season this year but I can't imagine Ocon performing worse than Bottas did in 2018. In fact I think the main risk with Ocon is that he might not have such harmony with Hamilton.
HustleRussell said:
I reminded myself the other day that Bottas finished 5th in last years' driver's championship. 5th with no wins against Hamilton, the clear championship winner with 11 race wins.
I know Bottas moved over once or twice but still...
Bottas had a shocker last season and can't afford another. He was consistent, albeit consistently about fourth.
I hope he turns in a better season this year but I can't imagine Ocon performing worse than Bottas did in 2018. In fact I think the main risk with Ocon is that he might not have such harmony with Hamilton.
That was my original point actually. Bottas is about as good as you get without risking putting pressure on Hamilton. Hamilton needs pressure of course, but I think Mercedes would prefer that pressure to come from Ferrari, not his own team mate. It's far harder to win WCC's if you have an inner team battle.I know Bottas moved over once or twice but still...
Bottas had a shocker last season and can't afford another. He was consistent, albeit consistently about fourth.
I hope he turns in a better season this year but I can't imagine Ocon performing worse than Bottas did in 2018. In fact I think the main risk with Ocon is that he might not have such harmony with Hamilton.
Some maintain the theory that inner team battles make both drivers 'better'. But I think history tells us it mostly just makes them more likely to collide and less likely to be focused on beating the team they should be battling with.
TheDeuce said:
HustleRussell said:
I reminded myself the other day that Bottas finished 5th in last years' driver's championship. 5th with no wins against Hamilton, the clear championship winner with 11 race wins.
I know Bottas moved over once or twice but still...
Bottas had a shocker last season and can't afford another. He was consistent, albeit consistently about fourth.
I hope he turns in a better season this year but I can't imagine Ocon performing worse than Bottas did in 2018. In fact I think the main risk with Ocon is that he might not have such harmony with Hamilton.
That was my original point actually. Bottas is about as good as you get without risking putting pressure on Hamilton. Hamilton needs pressure of course, but I think Mercedes would prefer that pressure to come from Ferrari, not his own team mate. It's far harder to win WCC's if you have an inner team battle.I know Bottas moved over once or twice but still...
Bottas had a shocker last season and can't afford another. He was consistent, albeit consistently about fourth.
I hope he turns in a better season this year but I can't imagine Ocon performing worse than Bottas did in 2018. In fact I think the main risk with Ocon is that he might not have such harmony with Hamilton.
Some maintain the theory that inner team battles make both drivers 'better'. But I think history tells us it mostly just makes them more likely to collide and less likely to be focused on beating the team they should be battling with.
With Ferrari and Red Bull being so close, Mercedes need a driver in the second car who can run line astern with their lead driver so that they can score 43 points every weekend. If your lead driver DNFs or goes off you need your second place guy to pick up the pieces. Your second driver needs to be a rear gunner too. How many times did we see Vettel or a Red Bull out-qualify Bottas or pull what would appear to be an 'easy' pass on Bottas in the race without a moment's delay?
Bottas was too far off Hamilton last season and there is a world of difference between Bottas' performance in 2018 and the performance of a driver who can give Hamilton headaches.
TheHighlander said:
Watched it all this week.
Very well made, nice insight into some of the things we don't get to see.
What would be good would be more team radio, enjoy hearing what the drivings are saying.
If you watch the race on race control, you can pick the onboard/s, and listen to the team radio snippets, give it a go.Very well made, nice insight into some of the things we don't get to see.
What would be good would be more team radio, enjoy hearing what the drivings are saying.
This is a wonderful series imo, whoever said it was actually nice not having Ferrari & Mercedes is 100% right and was good to get more in depth with the other teams.
I keep trying to talk myself round to it being part of the business for CH and MV, but imo they are just f
king dicks and I can't bring myself to justify their actions. When CH got put down by Cyril was so funny and his only comeback was all about the money as that's the only thing he can think about between sticking his head up MV's rear.
I work with some French guys and completely agree they are a nightmare to deal with but in terms of F1 you are a engine customer so in my mind there has to be some give on what to expect, hopefully if it helps solve some of the power/reliability you could adjust. RB just seem to have too much of an entitlement complex about them for me to ever come round to them.
I doubt Renault will be any good this year for Danny Ric but I have hope that it could be turned around in the future to at least beat RB, he deserves it imo.
I keep trying to talk myself round to it being part of the business for CH and MV, but imo they are just f
king dicks and I can't bring myself to justify their actions. When CH got put down by Cyril was so funny and his only comeback was all about the money as that's the only thing he can think about between sticking his head up MV's rear. I work with some French guys and completely agree they are a nightmare to deal with but in terms of F1 you are a engine customer so in my mind there has to be some give on what to expect, hopefully if it helps solve some of the power/reliability you could adjust. RB just seem to have too much of an entitlement complex about them for me to ever come round to them.
I doubt Renault will be any good this year for Danny Ric but I have hope that it could be turned around in the future to at least beat RB, he deserves it imo.
I have two friends who had a passing interest in F1 at most, both have told me they loved the documentary series and both are taking more of an interest in the sport this season as a result.
A win for Liberty Media IMO, more of this please.
A number of ex-drivers have said that current drivers have lost the dangerous, enigmatic aura they used to have as we fans simply have too much access to them. I think that series like this can start to build up the gladiatorial aspect. Horner comparing the racing driver's mentality to that of a fighter pilot. The driver's raw emotion in team radio etc etc.
A win for Liberty Media IMO, more of this please.
A number of ex-drivers have said that current drivers have lost the dangerous, enigmatic aura they used to have as we fans simply have too much access to them. I think that series like this can start to build up the gladiatorial aspect. Horner comparing the racing driver's mentality to that of a fighter pilot. The driver's raw emotion in team radio etc etc.
HustleRussell said:
I have two friends who had a passing interest in F1 at most, both have told me they loved the documentary series and both are taking more of an interest in the sport this season as a result.
A win for Liberty Media IMO, more of this please.
We've just watched the first one. My Missus hates grand prix, and normally disappears when it's on. She's watched the first, and we're about to put the second on.A win for Liberty Media IMO, more of this please.
I'm loving the uncut raw side of things. We're adults, and the edited/bleeped version of events we normally see doesn't convey the frustration or passion that usually goes with a sport at this level.
Couldn't agree more, a big winner for liberty. More of the same please.
I’m not purposely trying to swim against the tide, but I’ll give the series a firm B+ rating.
It is good, but it could have been so much better, and if the aim was in two parts (1. to open up the sport to new fans, and 2. present some sort of official chronicle to look back on), then it’s only partly achieved those goals.
Looking at the credits, it doesn’t list - if I recall correctly - Liberty F1 as owners of the production. But Sean Bratches is an Executive Producer. So there would have been some steerage and within that you’re not always going to get the full details.
Point in case, the Ricciardo contractual storyline: all an uninformed fan will get from that was that Ricciardo was wobbling on resigning with Red Bull. His agent fills the screen with nothingness for a few scenes and then Ricciardo signs for Renault as if it was a supreme macchiavelian stunt. What happened to all the stuff about how Mercedes and Ferrari were his desired destinations, that the intrigue with them lasted a few weeks. And then they all passed, he knew it and had the face of a wet fish for a few races, and then he only really had one genuine option available to him (unless he wanted to be an underling through the court of King Max).
If you’re going to use the opportunity to get up and close to a sport, in part to then chronicle it as some sort of official representation of a point in time, then do it properly.
It strikes me that Bratches, being an American will have noticed two things: one there’s an industry marker in sports presentation held by the NFL. The way the NFL have successfully marketed and contained the history of their sport, NFL Films, and reproduced it in such a vivid, emotional way, has allowed legends to seep into all facets of the story. If anyone takes time to watch the odd documentary/retrospective of say, the ‘85 Bears or the ‘69 Jets, and watch how it’s been filmed, and the use of archival footage, interesting talking heads etc, then you’ll see what the NFL has done so successfully in the last few years into making their sport the #1 in the world, viewing figures and fan base-wise. Secondly, any F1 fan worth his knowledge would have seen a thousand times, the same second long clips of Hunt running down the pitlane, or Senna about to smack Prost, or Mansell sparking his way down the straight. A bit overplayed but enough to have fermented the imaginations of fans down the years. Bratches, on both angles wants to leverage this for the new ‘Liberty’ era. Start a new mystique, away from Ecclestone times and rivalling the presentation favoured in American sport recently.
On Claire Willams &the son of Lou Ferrigno Lance Stroll; my part understanding of the way Claire and the Lance/Lawrence interactions are awkward might be down to the fact that her husband was Lance’s agent as well. Happy to be corrected, but it’s a complete face palm if the case. Talking of which, trousers: one scene when Lawrence gets up from a conversation it’s hard not to notice that he’s wearing like the most unfeasably tight trousers, and spends an age rearranging his coverage. I mean the guy must be in his fifties or sixties but I’m a little shellshocked his old mate Tommy H couldn’t have sewn him up a new and fitting pair of chinos. It’s just so sad.
It is good, but it could have been so much better, and if the aim was in two parts (1. to open up the sport to new fans, and 2. present some sort of official chronicle to look back on), then it’s only partly achieved those goals.
Looking at the credits, it doesn’t list - if I recall correctly - Liberty F1 as owners of the production. But Sean Bratches is an Executive Producer. So there would have been some steerage and within that you’re not always going to get the full details.
Point in case, the Ricciardo contractual storyline: all an uninformed fan will get from that was that Ricciardo was wobbling on resigning with Red Bull. His agent fills the screen with nothingness for a few scenes and then Ricciardo signs for Renault as if it was a supreme macchiavelian stunt. What happened to all the stuff about how Mercedes and Ferrari were his desired destinations, that the intrigue with them lasted a few weeks. And then they all passed, he knew it and had the face of a wet fish for a few races, and then he only really had one genuine option available to him (unless he wanted to be an underling through the court of King Max).
If you’re going to use the opportunity to get up and close to a sport, in part to then chronicle it as some sort of official representation of a point in time, then do it properly.
It strikes me that Bratches, being an American will have noticed two things: one there’s an industry marker in sports presentation held by the NFL. The way the NFL have successfully marketed and contained the history of their sport, NFL Films, and reproduced it in such a vivid, emotional way, has allowed legends to seep into all facets of the story. If anyone takes time to watch the odd documentary/retrospective of say, the ‘85 Bears or the ‘69 Jets, and watch how it’s been filmed, and the use of archival footage, interesting talking heads etc, then you’ll see what the NFL has done so successfully in the last few years into making their sport the #1 in the world, viewing figures and fan base-wise. Secondly, any F1 fan worth his knowledge would have seen a thousand times, the same second long clips of Hunt running down the pitlane, or Senna about to smack Prost, or Mansell sparking his way down the straight. A bit overplayed but enough to have fermented the imaginations of fans down the years. Bratches, on both angles wants to leverage this for the new ‘Liberty’ era. Start a new mystique, away from Ecclestone times and rivalling the presentation favoured in American sport recently.
On Claire Willams &
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