Fernando Alonso

Fernando Alonso

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angrymoby

1,246 posts

136 months

Thursday 27th August
quotequote all
Fundoreen said:
Why the hell would the stewards get involved in a driver sitting in his team box for a few seconds longer?
Quite obvious that the hamiltons went and complained.
So its a fair assesment that they cost Mclaren the titles.
so you think stewards only get involved if they are asked? ...even if a specific offence (impeding another driver) is done for a full 10s (not a few) in full glare of TV camera's (along with Ron losing his st)?

it's an interesting opinion

Fundoreen

1,756 posts

41 months

Thursday 27th August
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
Fundoreen said:
Why the hell would the stewards get involved in a driver sitting in his team box for a few seconds longer?
Quite obvious that the hamiltons went and complained.
So its a fair assesment that they cost Mclaren the titles.
so you think stewards only get involved if they are asked? ...even if a specific offence (impeding another driver) is done for a full 10s (not a few) in full glare of TV camera's (along with Ron losing his st)?

it's an interesting opinion
Maybe Fred should have stalled the car. Obviously just not crafty enough.
But whats not in doubt is the result of this incident made all the difference to wether they won the drivers and constructors that year.
You only have to look at the final table. Always a bit of myopia there amongst the mclaren fans.


KevinCamaroSS

8,567 posts

238 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
Fundoreen said:
Maybe Fred should have stalled the car. Obviously just not crafty enough.
But whats not in doubt is the result of this incident made all the difference to wether they won the drivers and constructors that year.
You only have to look at the final table. Always a bit of myopia there amongst the mclaren fans.
IMHO that is rubbish. McLaren scored 218 points before they were DQ, Ferrari were on 204, so that incident cost the team zero positions. The single incident that cost them the WDC was China, leaving Hamilton out on bald tyres. As I mentioned earlier I think that was deliberate, this view has been more or less confirmed by a colleague who was a senior track-side engineer for McLaren at the time.

Fundoreen

1,756 posts

41 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
KevinCamaroSS said:
Fundoreen said:
Maybe Fred should have stalled the car. Obviously just not crafty enough.
But whats not in doubt is the result of this incident made all the difference to wether they won the drivers and constructors that year.
You only have to look at the final table. Always a bit of myopia there amongst the mclaren fans.
IMHO that is rubbish. McLaren scored 218 points before they were DQ, Ferrari were on 204, so that incident cost the team zero positions. The single incident that cost them the WDC was China, leaving Hamilton out on bald tyres. As I mentioned earlier I think that was deliberate, this view has been more or less confirmed by a colleague who was a senior track-side engineer for McLaren at the time.
Someone in the teams opinion is like asking boris or trump how well the team they have put together are doing.







thegreenhell

7,658 posts

177 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
KevinCamaroSS said:
IMHO that is rubbish. McLaren scored 218 points before they were DQ, Ferrari were on 204, so that incident cost the team zero positions. The single incident that cost them the WDC was China, leaving Hamilton out on bald tyres. As I mentioned earlier I think that was deliberate, this view has been more or less confirmed by a colleague who was a senior track-side engineer for McLaren at the time.
But why, and on who's authority?

kiseca

8,270 posts

177 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
IMHO that is rubbish. McLaren scored 218 points before they were DQ, Ferrari were on 204, so that incident cost the team zero positions. The single incident that cost them the WDC was China, leaving Hamilton out on bald tyres. As I mentioned earlier I think that was deliberate, this view has been more or less confirmed by a colleague who was a senior track-side engineer for McLaren at the time.
But why, and on who's authority?
Yep. Even if someone on the team has hinted as much, I still don't believe it was intentional because it would be such a stupid thing to do. Then again, I guess Renault were willing to let one of their drivers drive into a wall on the possibility the other one may just hang on for a win...

KevinCamaroSS

8,567 posts

238 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
I mentioned it earlier.

Simply put, the powers that be did not want a rookie winning the championship because it made F1 look too easy to be the pinnacle of motorsport.

As regards the points the 2 McLaren drivers still scored more than the 2 Ferrari drivers, therefore the Hungary incident had no effect on the WCC.

thegreenhell

7,658 posts

177 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
So you mean Bernie and/or Max Mosley? How did they persuade the team to hobble their own driver?

It all seems extremely unlikely, especially considering the whole Spygate affair and the animosity between Max and Ron. They might conceivably have traded Ham's WDC for leniency in Spygate, but as they didn't receive any leniency then I can't see why they would conspire like that and still leave themselves open over Spygate. There's no upside for the team on either side of the equation to make them do it.

kiseca

8,270 posts

177 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
KevinCamaroSS said:
I mentioned it earlier.

Simply put, the powers that be did not want a rookie winning the championship because it made F1 look too easy to be the pinnacle of motorsport.

As regards the points the 2 McLaren drivers still scored more than the 2 Ferrari drivers, therefore the Hungary incident had no effect on the WCC.
I don't buy it, because firstly they had no problem when Jacques Villeneuve looked like doing the same thing, and secondly because, from my point of view, I thought having a rookie win was going to be sensational and I'd have taken it as a sign that the rookie was an exceptional talent, not that the competition was too easy. It's not like newcomers make a habit of winning it at their first attempt.

So, not saying you're right or wrong, but if that's an opinion, I certainly don't share it. First rookie champion since, well since 1950 as far as I know, first black champion, rookie beats double world champion team mate, the publicity had he won it would have been huge. That's a hollywood movie storyline, because people love seeing those kinds of stories.

What ruined 2007 for me was spygate and the halfway-house penalty applied to McLaren, which neither committed to saying their cars were illegal and couldn't compete, nor committed to saying their cars were OK so carry on. I think it destroyed McLaren's season, and whether or not they deserved it, the punishment didn't fit the decision. If the cars were copies, then exclude them and the drivers. Instead they settled on some neither here nor there solution that let the championship go down to the last race, when either a) McLaren should have wrapped it up easily and not got hobbled to make the show more interesting, or b) McLaren should have been excluded including the drivers.

I never saw Hamilton's Japan retirement because by that time I had stopped watching the races. Once the FIA had announced their verdict, I lost all interest in what could have been one of the most sensational seasons ever if they hadn't meddled and tried to engineer it.

sparta6

2,232 posts

58 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
So you mean Bernie and/or Max Mosley? How did they persuade the team to hobble their own driver?

It all seems extremely unlikely, especially considering the whole Spygate affair and the animosity between Max and Ron. They might conceivably have traded Ham's WDC for leniency in Spygate, but as they didn't receive any leniency then I can't see why they would conspire like that and still leave themselves open over Spygate. There's no upside for the team on either side of the equation to make them do it.
I would agree.

There was also the tampering of Alonso's tyre pressures which understandably pissed him off.

Uncle Ron was firmly in Hamilton's corner

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/60251/1/mclaren-to-b...

angrymoby

1,246 posts

136 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
& as if this thread wasn't Alex Jones enough ...up pops Sparta

If McLaren really were intent on ruining Alonso's WDC chances they'd have bloody made sure he didn't finish in front of Hamilton 5 out of the 7 races post Hungary Quali ...but that doesn't quite fit does it?


TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
& as if this thread wasn't Alex Jones enough ...up pops Sparta

If McLaren really were intent on ruining Alonso's WDC chances they'd have bloody made sure he didn't finish in front of Hamilton 5 out of the 7 races post Hungary Quali ...but that doesn't quite fit does it?
Sparta is like a st version of Sherlock Holmes.

"when you have eliminated the possibility Hamilton is just a better driver, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

Elementary.

ash73

19,259 posts

179 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
If McLaren really were intent on ruining Alonso's WDC chances they'd have bloody made sure he didn't finish in front of Hamilton 5 out of the 7 races post Hungary Quali ...but that doesn't quite fit does it?
"We were racing Fernando" - Ron Dennis.

If they'd supported Alonso, instead of dicking around with his tyre pressures, he could have won every race.

But let's not forget, he dropped it in the wet in Japan. Without that crash, Alonso would be champion.

angrymoby

1,246 posts

136 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
ash73 said:
"We were racing Fernando" - Ron Dennis.
& when/ why did Ron say that? ...because he was being accused of sabotaging Hamilton's race in China by the British press lol

ash73 said:
If they'd supported Alonso, instead of dicking around with his tyre pressures, he could have won every race.

But let's not forget, he dropped it in the wet in Japan. Without that crash, Alonso would be champion.
Alonso was suffering paranoia well before he went off in Japan (& his suspicions about his tyre pressures- ironic really, considering he & de la Rosa's email discussion about Ferrari's pressures ) ...it had kicked in right about the time the rookie was looking to be constantly as quick as him, hence him throwing envelopes stuffed with cash around his side of the garage

Alonso came unstuck because a: the rookie appeared to be as quick as him b: Flavio wasn't around to give him a cuddle (&/or boot the other driver out, like they did with Trulli) & Alonso wasn't the underdog anymore - expectation is different type of pressure



sparta6

2,232 posts

58 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
If McLaren really were intent on ruining Alonso's WDC chances they'd have bloody made sure he didn't finish in front of Hamilton 5 out of the 7 races post Hungary Quali ...but that doesn't quite fit does it?
Because Alonso found a workaround and was faster

sparta6

2,232 posts

58 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
ash73 said:
"We were racing Fernando" - Ron Dennis.

.
Accurate and succinct from Hamilton's uncle.

But the doubters will still doubt hehe


ash73

19,259 posts

179 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
Alonso came unstuck...
He should have reset his relationship with Lewis (from rookie to contender) and got his head down. If he had, he would have won.

I see them as on a par, but the real fallout from 2007 is we very rarely get to see a proper fight between drivers within a team, and everyone thinks that's normal.

We need to get back to the days of Alonso/Lewis, Nico/Lewis, Prost/Senna, Mansell/Piquet.

Deesee

4,532 posts

41 months

Friday 28th August
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
ash73 said:
"We were racing Fernando" - Ron Dennis.

.
Accurate and succinct from Hamilton's uncle.

But the doubters will still doubt hehe
Championship leader race by race (look at 2007).




Fernando sunk em..

coetzeeh

2,173 posts

194 months

Saturday 29th August
quotequote all
If Renaults recent pace is anything to go by Fernando is going to be a menace next year!

Catatafish

1,070 posts

103 months

Sunday 30th August
quotequote all
coetzeeh said:
If Renaults recent pace is anything to go by Fernando is going to be a menace next year!
Yeah, he may have finally made the right career move.