Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?
Discussion
coetzeeh said:
Adelaide 2009 unfortunately - for which LH apologised when the facts emerged and for which big Dave was made the fall guy and cost him his 25 year career ar McL.
fall guys/ scapegoats tend to vent to anyone who'll listen about the injustice they've received ...especially over questions about their integritywhat's Dave had to say about it?
Schumacher's rise always struck me as a bit odd.
Were you to have followed his pre-F1 career, there was little to suggest him likely to be anything other than a decent F1 driver and nothing more.
He won some low-league Formula Ford Championship, the German F3 Championship, twice and The Macau GP. All very worthy and credible but many attained more but achieved less opportunity.
Frentzen was widely touted as the next German champion at the time, not Schumacher.
His successes at Benetton are clouded in suspicion of illegal technology. His time at Ferrari benefited from the team completely focused on him - even the tyres were designed and made to suit him and him alone. And is the only driver I can think of disqualified from an entire season's championship. Parking it in Monaco, barging Villenueve (which earned him the disqualification) and others don't help his cause.
If you compare that to Hamilton who won Formula Renualt UK, Formula 3 EuroSeries, Masters of Formula 3 and GP2 championships and came within a whisker of taking the F1 title in his rookie year and a record since in which his only self-inflicted controversy of any note is fashion, you have to conclude that his the better of the two, even if the statistics show otherwise.
Were you to have followed his pre-F1 career, there was little to suggest him likely to be anything other than a decent F1 driver and nothing more.
He won some low-league Formula Ford Championship, the German F3 Championship, twice and The Macau GP. All very worthy and credible but many attained more but achieved less opportunity.
Frentzen was widely touted as the next German champion at the time, not Schumacher.
His successes at Benetton are clouded in suspicion of illegal technology. His time at Ferrari benefited from the team completely focused on him - even the tyres were designed and made to suit him and him alone. And is the only driver I can think of disqualified from an entire season's championship. Parking it in Monaco, barging Villenueve (which earned him the disqualification) and others don't help his cause.
If you compare that to Hamilton who won Formula Renualt UK, Formula 3 EuroSeries, Masters of Formula 3 and GP2 championships and came within a whisker of taking the F1 title in his rookie year and a record since in which his only self-inflicted controversy of any note is fashion, you have to conclude that his the better of the two, even if the statistics show otherwise.
Don't forget that for the last 2 seasons + the Fezza has been the fastest car in a straight line and "fingers" himself actually even admitted in the last closed season that he was Ferrari's biggest problem and that they should have won.
So even with what is no longer the faster car he still manages to be so far in front at this stage in the season.
So even with what is no longer the faster car he still manages to be so far in front at this stage in the season.
DeltonaS said:
37chevy said:
Impossible to compare. Both greats in their respective generation
Mercedes advantage and dominance in the hyrbid engine formula is certainly greater than Ferarri's dominance was in the Schumi days.Schumi's input on the performance of Ferrari was therefor greater than Hamiltons performance was on Mercedes in his WDC wins.
I don’t think drivers have all that much input to car development anymore. They are so complicated all they can tell them is about the balance I guess. Then it’s up to the engineers to work it out.
ntiz said:
I don’t think drivers have all that much input to car development anymore. They are so complicated all they can tell them is about the balance I guess. Then it’s up to the engineers to work it out.
I don’t think that’s the case at all. The teams have three or four drivers in and out of the simulator on a pretty continuous basis. On top of all the usual mechanical and aerodynamic stuff they have to figure out how best to deploy the electrical power over the lap, mode utilisation and probably a million and one other things.HustleRussell said:
ntiz said:
I don’t think drivers have all that much input to car development anymore. They are so complicated all they can tell them is about the balance I guess. Then it’s up to the engineers to work it out.
I don’t think that’s the case at all. The teams have three or four drivers in and out of the simulator on a pretty continuous basis. On top of all the usual mechanical and aerodynamic stuff they have to figure out how best to deploy the electrical power over the lap, mode utilisation and probably a million and one other things.imo, Lewis obviously doesn't resort to ramming into teammates ala Senna & Schumacher, and is the best driver on the current grid, but Schumacher shown more flashes of brilliance in less dominant cars during a shorter period, and showed signs of being a better all-round driver. Ross Brawn's many anecdotes of him offering solutions to team strategy calmly and totally unflustered while setting fastest laps is an example of this, and he very rarely had an off-day on Sundays. He was also other-worldy fast during in-laps and out-laps.
TobyTR said:
Exactly that, it's mostly simulation work since 2009, different to 15+ years ago when the only way to develop the cars from driver input was pounding 80+ test laps with both race drivers and their reserve driver at Silverstone/Catalunya/Magny-Cours/Imola/Fiorano etc.
imo, Lewis obviously doesn't resort to ramming into teammates ala Senna & Schumacher, and is the best driver on the current grid, but Schumacher shown more flashes of brilliance in less dominant cars during a shorter period, and showed signs of being a better all-round driver. Ross Brawn's many anecdotes of him offering solutions to team strategy calmly and totally unflustered while setting fastest laps is an example of this, and he very rarely had an off-day on Sundays. He was also other-worldy fast during in-laps and out-laps.
The quality on the grid in Lewis era surpasses that of Schumacher'simo, Lewis obviously doesn't resort to ramming into teammates ala Senna & Schumacher, and is the best driver on the current grid, but Schumacher shown more flashes of brilliance in less dominant cars during a shorter period, and showed signs of being a better all-round driver. Ross Brawn's many anecdotes of him offering solutions to team strategy calmly and totally unflustered while setting fastest laps is an example of this, and he very rarely had an off-day on Sundays. He was also other-worldy fast during in-laps and out-laps.
Moobs said:
The quality on the grid in Lewis era surpasses that of Schumacher's
Nobody can say for sure and that's open for debate. But the level of professionalism we see today - in terms of fitness, approach, work-ethic and dedication, not ramming 
- is largely thanks to Senna and SchumacherJenson Button, January 3rd 2019: "The moment I stood alongside Michael on a podium that’s when I knew I was an F1 driver. So much respect for this guy, the benchmark for a racing driver who is the best I’ve ever seen & raced against. The rest of us were there to make the racing interesting."
I'll take his word.
StevieBee said:
Schumacher's rise always struck me as a bit odd.
Were you to have followed his pre-F1 career, there was little to suggest him likely to be anything other than a decent F1 driver and nothing more.
He won some low-league Formula Ford Championship, the German F3 Championship, twice and The Macau GP. All very worthy and credible but many attained more but achieved less opportunity.
Frentzen was widely touted as the next German champion at the time, not Schumacher.
His successes at Benetton are clouded in suspicion of illegal technology. His time at Ferrari benefited from the team completely focused on him - even the tyres were designed and made to suit him and him alone. And is the only driver I can think of disqualified from an entire season's championship. Parking it in Monaco, barging Villenueve (which earned him the disqualification) and others don't help his cause.
If you compare that to Hamilton who won Formula Renualt UK, Formula 3 EuroSeries, Masters of Formula 3 and GP2 championships and came within a whisker of taking the F1 title in his rookie year and a record since in which his only self-inflicted controversy of any note is fashion, you have to conclude that his the better of the two, even if the statistics show otherwise.
Well said!Were you to have followed his pre-F1 career, there was little to suggest him likely to be anything other than a decent F1 driver and nothing more.
He won some low-league Formula Ford Championship, the German F3 Championship, twice and The Macau GP. All very worthy and credible but many attained more but achieved less opportunity.
Frentzen was widely touted as the next German champion at the time, not Schumacher.
His successes at Benetton are clouded in suspicion of illegal technology. His time at Ferrari benefited from the team completely focused on him - even the tyres were designed and made to suit him and him alone. And is the only driver I can think of disqualified from an entire season's championship. Parking it in Monaco, barging Villenueve (which earned him the disqualification) and others don't help his cause.
If you compare that to Hamilton who won Formula Renualt UK, Formula 3 EuroSeries, Masters of Formula 3 and GP2 championships and came within a whisker of taking the F1 title in his rookie year and a record since in which his only self-inflicted controversy of any note is fashion, you have to conclude that his the better of the two, even if the statistics show otherwise.
The Moose said:
TheDeuce said:
There is only one way to answer this question once and for all. We need to create a racing series specifically designed to find the best driver! Oh.. wait...
Good plan! Because that’s not F1.TheDeuce said:
HTP99 said:
ash73 said:
Alonso.
Who?! I am not claiming he was the only element which guaranteed its failure, but doesn't the team appear to be so much healthier in every aspect since Fernando has gone?
I fully appreciate that Alonso is a formidable racing driver, however during his final stint at McLaren I just got increasingly sick of hearing from him and increasingly fed up of how Zak Brown allowed him to take precedence over the team. I was willing Zak Brown or Honda to take the initiative and put manners on him but based on appearances they never did.
It is a very rare instance that I miss Fernando Alonso in the slightest.
Seeing McLaren going about their business these days is a bit like watching a good friend gradually getting their mojo back after escaping an abusive relationship.
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