Ferrari: Enginegate
Discussion
Why does there have to be any conspiracy theory at all? They have an excellent PU and run far less down force than their competitors. The car always had the potential to be fastest of the field. And now at last they're on top of their development tweaks and have refined what they have, so it's more competitive more of the time.
We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
TheDeuce said:
Why does there have to be any conspiracy theory at all? They have an excellent PU and run far less down force than their competitors. The car always had the potential to be fastest of the field. And now at last they're on top of their development tweaks and have refined what they have, so it's more competitive more of the time.
We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
There is simply no place for that kind of talk here.
Get out!
TheDeuce said:
Why does there have to be any conspiracy theory at all? They have an excellent PU and run far less down force than their competitors. The car always had the potential to be fastest of the field. And now at last they're on top of their development tweaks and have refined what they have, so it's more competitive more of the time.
We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
Has a team ever made such an in season performance jump before?We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
Adrian W said:
TheDeuce said:
Why does there have to be any conspiracy theory at all? They have an excellent PU and run far less down force than their competitors. The car always had the potential to be fastest of the field. And now at last they're on top of their development tweaks and have refined what they have, so it's more competitive more of the time.
We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
Has a team ever made such an in season performance jump before?We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
Given just how strong Ferrari were looking in every aspect before the season started, it's remarkable how far behind they were for so long... Sure they made their usual blunders, bad calls, weird strategy calls and flip flopping between who's numero uno - but really, this is the performance they showed beforehand and I hope they can carry on, as it's been a great set of races but would have been even more awesome had it been this level of fighting for the lead all the way through.
RemarkLima said:
Adrian W said:
TheDeuce said:
Why does there have to be any conspiracy theory at all? They have an excellent PU and run far less down force than their competitors. The car always had the potential to be fastest of the field. And now at last they're on top of their development tweaks and have refined what they have, so it's more competitive more of the time.
We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
Has a team ever made such an in season performance jump before?We haven't seen anything in the cars performance that needs to be explained by a conspiracy theory.
Given just how strong Ferrari were looking in every aspect before the season started, it's remarkable how far behind they were for so long... Sure they made their usual blunders, bad calls, weird strategy calls and flip flopping between who's numero uno - but really, this is the performance they showed beforehand and I hope they can carry on, as it's been a great set of races but would have been even more awesome had it been this level of fighting for the lead all the way through.
Overall I agree though, this isn't so much Ferrari taking a huge step forwards, it feels more like they're simply getting around to fixing a few mistakes they made earlier on, and are basically getting back to where they should be performance-wise.
TheDeuce said:
Same as last season in as much as Ferrari performance seems to shift between epic and embarrassing. I also think that their recent very promising performances should be taken with a slight pinch of salt, there have been 2 tracks recently that were always going to play to their strengths, even before their aero improvements - and whatever little extra they may have found power-wise.
Overall I agree though, this isn't so much Ferrari taking a huge step forwards, it feels more like they're simply getting around to fixing a few mistakes they made earlier on, and are basically getting back to where they should be performance-wise.
If it was aero, then that's odd as the straight line advances didn't coincide with a new aero package. They had been ahead, by a smaller margin, all season. The surprising performance on non power tracks though, does look to be related to new aero. If it's just the ICE, then customer teams should have seen similar gains. Overall I agree though, this isn't so much Ferrari taking a huge step forwards, it feels more like they're simply getting around to fixing a few mistakes they made earlier on, and are basically getting back to where they should be performance-wise.
Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 24th October 17:11
Graveworm said:
If it was aero, then that's odd as the straight line advances didn't coincide with a new aero package. They had been ahead, by a smaller margin, all season. The surprising performance on none power tracks though does look to be related to new aero. If it's just the ICE, then customer teams should have seen similar gains.
Fuel - your customers don't have to run the same fuel as you do. So the ICE gains may be dependent on special fuel that only Ferrari haveFlooble said:
Fuel - your customers don't have to run the same fuel as you do. So the ICE gains may be dependent on special fuel that only Ferrari have
It could be but they don't have a lot to play with. It's not that special, when they put road fuel in a Ferrari without optimum mapping it was slightly faster on the straights whilst just under a second a lap slower overall. Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 24th October 17:14
Graveworm said:
Flooble said:
Fuel - your customers don't have to run the same fuel as you do. So the ICE gains may be dependent on special fuel that only Ferrari have
It could be but they don't have a lot to play with. It's not that special, when they put road fuel in a Ferrari without optimum mapping it was slightly faster on the straights whilst just under a second a lap slower overall. Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 24th October 17:14
Edited by DanielSan on Thursday 24th October 22:50
Marc Priestley on Ferrari engine power and why the customer's aren't as fast as the works team:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLkn8hWlsQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLkn8hWlsQs
Doesn’t really help.
What we need ideally is someone from Brixworth giving their views.
Something he does not mention is that radiators and, I think, intercoolers are not hardware supplied by the PU supplier, they are part of a teams own packaging.
What we need ideally is someone from Brixworth giving their views.
Something he does not mention is that radiators and, I think, intercoolers are not hardware supplied by the PU supplier, they are part of a teams own packaging.
Edited by rdjohn on Tuesday 29th October 12:21
Binotto says he welcomes any investigation as he's 100% that everything they are doing is legal. He does make a good point that no-one is talking about protesting the cars that are faster in the corners than the Ferrari. He says they do have an engine advantage but it's their low drag philosophy working in conjunction with that that gives them the straightline speed rather than pure grunt.
Kraken said:
Binotto says he welcomes any investigation as he's 100% that everything they are doing is legal. He does make a good point that no-one is talking about protesting the cars that are faster in the corners than the Ferrari. He says they do have an engine advantage but it's their low drag philosophy working in conjunction with that that gives them the straightline speed rather than pure grunt.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-engine-legality-shame-binotto/4588953/Hopefully, this finally puts it to bed.
rdjohn said:
Kraken said:
Binotto says he welcomes any investigation as he's 100% that everything they are doing is legal. He does make a good point that no-one is talking about protesting the cars that are faster in the corners than the Ferrari. He says they do have an engine advantage but it's their low drag philosophy working in conjunction with that that gives them the straightline speed rather than pure grunt.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-engine-legality-shame-binotto/4588953/Hopefully, this finally puts it to bed.
There is however endless clear evidence of the Ferrari's running far less down force, hence less drag so obviously less resistance effecting the cars speed.
At no point in time has there been any evidence of the Ferrari PU being any more powerful than the others. It's highly likely to be within a few % one way or another. It could easily be 3% more powerful than the Merc, on the other hand with such a slippery car it could conceivably be 2% less powerful and still faster.. I appreciate that now Binotto is saying they do have a small power advantage... But how would he actually know? I'm sure there is some crossover of staff that carry such knowledge but it will forever be out of date knowledge by the time it's shared.
Low drag = more speed. I don't think there was ever anything more to it than that.
Kraken said:
TheDeuce said:
Low drag = more speed. I don't think there was ever anything more to it than that.
That's not what Binotto said though. He says they do have an engine advantage and the low drag is just a part of the speed advantage as is the engine.In any case, low drag is going to have a far greater impact on top speed than even a significant power advantage. Whatever the actual power output of each PU, they're all going to be very close at this stage.
Their speed has always been chiefly down to their low drag philosophy.
Well let me put this out there, if as you say it's all aero then how come in Q3 they can pull out another half second from somewhere, I wasn't aware they had aero modes too, they must somehow be able to turn off their downforce on the straights!
If it's all aero as you say then why aren't they as quick in the race, OK they're heavy with fuel but so is everybody else, if it's just aero why doesn't it work in the race as it does in Q3.
I'm not fooled, yes they might have less downforce but in my eyes they're getting more from the PU than the aero
If it's all aero as you say then why aren't they as quick in the race, OK they're heavy with fuel but so is everybody else, if it's just aero why doesn't it work in the race as it does in Q3.
I'm not fooled, yes they might have less downforce but in my eyes they're getting more from the PU than the aero
Doink said:
Well let me put this out there, if as you say it's all aero then how come in Q3 they can pull out another half second from somewhere, I wasn't aware they had aero modes too, they must somehow be able to turn off their downforce on the straights!
If it's all aero as you say then why aren't they as quick in the race, OK they're heavy with fuel but so is everybody else, if it's just aero why doesn't it work in the race as it does in Q3.
I'm not fooled, yes they might have less downforce but in my eyes they're getting more from the PU than the aero
All teams have aero modes - it’s called DRS.If it's all aero as you say then why aren't they as quick in the race, OK they're heavy with fuel but so is everybody else, if it's just aero why doesn't it work in the race as it does in Q3.
I'm not fooled, yes they might have less downforce but in my eyes they're getting more from the PU than the aero
If you start with low downforce, then DRS gives you even less and less drag on the straights.
Personally, I think the difference is in the first 10-50m, before DRS is deployed. The big difference is in electrical deployment - a loot of oomph out of a corner combined with a superb MGUH and low drag to maintain that advantage down a straight.
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