Ferrari: Enginegate
Discussion
Kraken said:
The whole fuel flow thing is one of the most stupid ideas they ever came up with. Just specify the size of the tank and let them do what they want from there. More stupid restrictions there are the more money is wasted trying to find ways around them.
How about qualifying or where a B team or number 2 driver burns through their fuel, in the first part of the race, to block opposition. Not to mention it will become even more about simulations and tactics with under/overcuts becoming even easier.Kraken said:
The whole fuel flow thing is one of the most stupid ideas they ever came up with. Just specify the size of the tank and let them do what they want from there. More stupid restrictions there are the more money is wasted trying to find ways around them.
Haven't they tried that, and teams found ways around it, such as inflatable bladders inside the tank which are inflated for the testalock said:
Kraken said:
The whole fuel flow thing is one of the most stupid ideas they ever came up with. Just specify the size of the tank and let them do what they want from there. More stupid restrictions there are the more money is wasted trying to find ways around them.
Haven't they tried that, and teams found ways around it, such as inflatable bladders inside the tank which are inflated for the testKraken said:
The whole fuel flow thing is one of the most stupid ideas they ever came up with. Just specify the size of the tank and let them do what they want from there. More stupid restrictions there are the more money is wasted trying to find ways around them.
Exactly it would be so much simpler if every team started the race with the same amount of fuel so in theory the drivers are more likely to push the cars for longer during the race rather than having to lift and coast as they've under fueled the carAngpozzuto said:
Kraken said:
The whole fuel flow thing is one of the most stupid ideas they ever came up with. Just specify the size of the tank and let them do what they want from there. More stupid restrictions there are the more money is wasted trying to find ways around them.
Exactly it would be so much simpler if every team started the race with the same amount of fuel so in theory the drivers are more likely to push the cars for longer during the race rather than having to lift and coast as they've under fueled the carI think it is worth maintaining, but somehow allow the engines to get to 18k rpm!
RemarkLima said:
The fuel flow limit is also there to encourage better use of the energy in the fuel, so if you can get 50% of the energy as kenetic over a rivals 45% that's a big deal!
I think it is worth maintaining, but somehow allow the engines to get to 18k rpm!
I have to agree. Revs are missing from the current F1 soundtrack and surely heightened rev limit could be combined with energy deployment for an overtake? Basically a balls out mode...I think it is worth maintaining, but somehow allow the engines to get to 18k rpm!
Angpozzuto said:
Kraken said:
The whole fuel flow thing is one of the most stupid ideas they ever came up with. Just specify the size of the tank and let them do what they want from there. More stupid restrictions there are the more money is wasted trying to find ways around them.
Exactly it would be so much simpler if every team started the race with the same amount of fuel so in theory the drivers are more likely to push the cars for longer during the race rather than having to lift and coast as they've under fueled the carBig Nanas said:
Angpozzuto said:
Kraken said:
The whole fuel flow thing is one of the most stupid ideas they ever came up with. Just specify the size of the tank and let them do what they want from there. More stupid restrictions there are the more money is wasted trying to find ways around them.
Exactly it would be so much simpler if every team started the race with the same amount of fuel so in theory the drivers are more likely to push the cars for longer during the race rather than having to lift and coast as they've under fueled the carWhatever the merits of the rules, they're there for everybody. If any team is increasing power by circumventing them, it's a big black mark.
With both the Mercedes and Renault works entries far from certain beyond 2021, I'm not sure F1 is in a strong enough position to deal properly with the situation if Ferrari were found to have cheated. I suspect they'd brush it under the carpet and quietly ask them not to do it again.
With both the Mercedes and Renault works entries far from certain beyond 2021, I'm not sure F1 is in a strong enough position to deal properly with the situation if Ferrari were found to have cheated. I suspect they'd brush it under the carpet and quietly ask them not to do it again.
janesmith1950 said:
Whatever the merits of the rules, they're there for everybody. If any team is increasing power by circumventing them, it's a big black mark.
With both the Mercedes and Renault works entries far from certain beyond 2021, I'm not sure F1 is in a strong enough position to deal properly with the situation if Ferrari were found to have cheated. I suspect they'd brush it under the carpet and quietly ask them not to do it again.
They would have a significant issue if they need to ban/penalise Honda and Ferrari. With Renault looking a bit flaky you could, worst case, have a somewhat decimated grid.With both the Mercedes and Renault works entries far from certain beyond 2021, I'm not sure F1 is in a strong enough position to deal properly with the situation if Ferrari were found to have cheated. I suspect they'd brush it under the carpet and quietly ask them not to do it again.
Expect slaps on wrist and rule clarifications in my view.
CoolHands said:
They could give them a weight of fuel that is used in both qualifying and the race and let the teams decide how they want to use it. In the end it would reach an equilibrium
You'd still end up with qualifying monsters that put it on pole then create a train behind them (especially using B teams as rear gunners). Lack of overtaking opportunities at several tracks being the root cause.janesmith1950 said:
37chevy said:
Sources
Not any more as in the horse has bolted and if they were up to no good the kit probably disappeared shortly before Austin. The ONLY reason they were ever described as having 'more power' than anyone else is that they're faster on the straights. Look at their car and the lower rake they're running though? You would (should) expect it to be a slippery bullet on the straights. And suffer in the corners as a result, which they have done all season, compared to their competitors.
I'm lost as to what part of that needs explaining with rumours of anything 'secret' going on. Other than foul play being more interesting than Ferrari simply making less good choices than their rivals when they decided how to design their 2019 car.
TheDeuce said:
Possibly. Far more likely that they have no more power really than their rivals, but a low down-force car. their low down-force philosophy has led to them having to cobble on down-force at certain circuits, with various results which have lead to differing pace..
The ONLY reason they were ever described as having 'more power' than anyone else is that they're faster on the straights. Look at their car and the lower rake they're running though? You would (should) expect it to be a slippery bullet on the straights. And suffer in the corners as a result, which they have done all season, compared to their competitors.
I'm lost as to what part of that needs explaining with rumours of anything 'secret' going on. Other than foul play being more interesting than Ferrari simply making less good choices than their rivals when they decided how to design their 2019 car.
That would make sense if they came back after August with similar performance. They didn't. They came back with vastly superior straight-line performance compared to before the break. That is why the other teams cry foul. The ONLY reason they were ever described as having 'more power' than anyone else is that they're faster on the straights. Look at their car and the lower rake they're running though? You would (should) expect it to be a slippery bullet on the straights. And suffer in the corners as a result, which they have done all season, compared to their competitors.
I'm lost as to what part of that needs explaining with rumours of anything 'secret' going on. Other than foul play being more interesting than Ferrari simply making less good choices than their rivals when they decided how to design their 2019 car.
Taking your explanation, Ferrari spent the first half seeing they were too slow in the corners, and decided to concentrate even more on straight line aero performance, which by Ferrari's own admission, they did the opposite.
Yes, they have a lower drag aero philosophy, but that doesn't explain the sudden boost of performance after the summer break (unless engine power/delivery was significantly boosted).
janesmith1950 said:
TheDeuce said:
Possibly. Far more likely that they have no more power really than their rivals, but a low down-force car. their low down-force philosophy has led to them having to cobble on down-force at certain circuits, with various results which have lead to differing pace..
The ONLY reason they were ever described as having 'more power' than anyone else is that they're faster on the straights. Look at their car and the lower rake they're running though? You would (should) expect it to be a slippery bullet on the straights. And suffer in the corners as a result, which they have done all season, compared to their competitors.
I'm lost as to what part of that needs explaining with rumours of anything 'secret' going on. Other than foul play being more interesting than Ferrari simply making less good choices than their rivals when they decided how to design their 2019 car.
That would make sense if they came back after August with similar performance. They didn't. They came back with vastly superior straight-line performance compared to before the break. That is why the other teams cry foul. The ONLY reason they were ever described as having 'more power' than anyone else is that they're faster on the straights. Look at their car and the lower rake they're running though? You would (should) expect it to be a slippery bullet on the straights. And suffer in the corners as a result, which they have done all season, compared to their competitors.
I'm lost as to what part of that needs explaining with rumours of anything 'secret' going on. Other than foul play being more interesting than Ferrari simply making less good choices than their rivals when they decided how to design their 2019 car.
Taking your explanation, Ferrari spent the first half seeing they were too slow in the corners, and decided to concentrate even more on straight line aero performance, which by Ferrari's own admission, they did the opposite.
Yes, they have a lower drag aero philosophy, but that doesn't explain the sudden boost of performance after the summer break (unless engine power/delivery was significantly boosted).
I'm no oracle, perhaps they did cheat. But being realistic, it's more likely to be just a successful in season development as it is anything dodgy.
The history of Motorsport suggests not. Teams don't suddenly find half a second or more on the straights mid-season through regular means.
Also, Red Bull and others don't bang on about cheating unless they're pretty sure something untoward is going on.
But no, it's entirely because Ferrari had a crap aero first half and decided the solution was to push further in the same direction. Obviously...
Also, Red Bull and others don't bang on about cheating unless they're pretty sure something untoward is going on.
But no, it's entirely because Ferrari had a crap aero first half and decided the solution was to push further in the same direction. Obviously...
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