Mercedes

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davidd

Original Poster:

6,099 posts

242 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
I'm not sure how much truth there is in this... 'high level sources' etc

First time I have seen it in anything like mainstream media

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/merc...

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
davidd said:
I'm not sure how much truth there is in this... 'high level sources' etc

First time I have seen it in anything like mainstream media

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/merc...
I was driving and got an alert come through about this one!

Who knows if true, plain rumour or mis-information leaked for some reason. But say it were true, it would make some sense and I'm far from the only member on these forums to have speculated 2020 could, and in some ways should be Mercedes last season. And of course the team itself lives on regardless.

Also if true, interesting that Toto would become an owner along with Stroll, and by extension retain his executive control of the team no doubt - albeit under the Aston Martin brand. And also, according to 'sources' he would join Stroll in buying out Aston Martin.

If it's all true, then Aston Martin would become a genuine F1 team.. And both their road and F1 cars would be powered by Mercedes (still). And with Toto still at the top, this 'massive story' is actually that, other than a name change, in terms of the team and F1, there isn't really very much change at all! They have tagged on the sensational 'could trigger Lewis to leave' bit, but honestly from his perspective what does this change? Same boss, same team, same engineers, same factory, same engine supplier...

Ya know what, so much of this story makes sense that I'm going to be a bit bold and predict that its more or less true smile

davidd

Original Poster:

6,099 posts

242 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
I was driving and got an alert come through about this one!

Who knows if true, plain rumour or mis-information leaked for some reason. But say it were true, it would make some sense and I'm far from the only member on these forums to have speculated 2020 could, and in some ways should be Mercedes last season. And of course the team itself lives on regardless.

Also if true, interesting that Toto would become an owner along with Stroll, and by extension retain his executive control of the team no doubt - albeit under the Aston Martin brand. And also, according to 'sources' he would join Stroll in buying out Aston Martin.

If it's all true, then Aston Martin would become a genuine F1 team.. And both their road and F1 cars would be powered by Mercedes (still). And with Toto still at the top, this 'massive story' is actually that, other than a name change, in terms of the team and F1, there isn't really very much change at all! They have tagged on the sensational 'could trigger Lewis to leave' bit, but honestly from his perspective what does this change? Same boss, same team, same engineers, same factory, same engine supplier...

Ya know what, so much of this story makes sense that I'm going to be a bit bold and predict that its more or less true smile
Ha, I think it is a load of old tosh wink

cb31

609 posts

94 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
other than a name change, in terms of the team and F1, there isn't really very much change at all! Same boss, same team, same engineers, same factory, same engine supplier...
Lance Stroll driving the best car on the grid, get in a patsy number 2 driver and daddies boy is world champion eek

I really hope not!

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
davidd said:
Ha, I think it is a load of old tosh wink
Well only one of us can be right! biggrin

If it's me I'll definitely quote you when the day comes wink

(If not I'll probably never mention it again...)

davidd

Original Poster:

6,099 posts

242 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Well only one of us can be right! biggrin

If it's me I'll definitely quote you when the day comes wink

(If not I'll probably never mention it again...)
I'd sort of like it all to happen, I just think that Aston is in a bigger hole than we are led to believe which could scupper things.

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
cb31 said:
TheDeuce said:
other than a name change, in terms of the team and F1, there isn't really very much change at all! Same boss, same team, same engineers, same factory, same engine supplier...
Lance Stroll driving the best car on the grid, get in a patsy number 2 driver and daddies boy is world champion eek

I really hope not!
Luckily for us all, I think that even if he was put in the best car with a team mate not allowed or capable of passing him... he still wouldn't have what it takes to become WDC.

His father knows that he can only gift him the current F1 seat because he's rich enough, so I'm guessing above all else he wants his investments to pay off... And that alone would hopefully preclude giving his son a seat in a car that with a better driver could actually win both titles.

Also if any of it's true and he is to partner up in such a huge way with Toto, I'm thinking Toto has probably already considered and addressed that particular concern.

Derek Smith

37,749 posts

206 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Luckily for us all, I think that even if he was put in the best car with a team mate not allowed or capable of passing him... he still wouldn't have what it takes to become WDC.

His father knows that he can only gift him the current F1 seat because he's rich enough, so I'm guessing above all else he wants his investments to pay off... And that alone would hopefully preclude giving his son a seat in a car that with a better driver could actually win both titles.

Also if any of it's true and he is to partner up in such a huge way with Toto, I'm thinking Toto has probably already considered and addressed that particular concern.
Stroll is no Florence Foster Jenkins, but he's no Hamilton, Verstappen, or Leclerk either. I can't see Wolff getting into bed with a team that would be little more than a vanity project.

Muzzer79

3,778 posts

145 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
davidd said:
TheDeuce said:
Well only one of us can be right! biggrin

If it's me I'll definitely quote you when the day comes wink

(If not I'll probably never mention it again...)
I'd sort of like it all to happen, I just think that Aston is in a bigger hole than we are led to believe which could scupper things.
I agree about Aston being in the schtuck.

However, reading that article, there's a lot of stars that need to align for all of that to happen. Half the car industry seems to be linked at some point....

I can see the possibility of Mercedes selling and involving Aston. But Stroll would then have stakes in two F1 teams. F1 teams are not easy to sell, as we've seen in the past, even if a mystery Russian billionaire is miraculously in the wings......

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
davidd said:
I'd sort of like it all to happen, I just think that Aston is in a bigger hole than we are led to believe which could scupper things.
In a way, the bigger the hole the better if you're an investor and genuinely believe you can fix it up. Buy low, sell high..

And brand-wise Aston are pretty solid, and so well known/loved, always potential value in such a brand. They are currently stuck as they don't have the capital or scale of sales to keep up with modern car tech development, hence the recent and slightly uncomfortable switch to Mercedes drive-train, engines, infotainment etc etc. But one way to give them a sexy edge, a reason to continue to exist, would be to bolster their racing heritage and renew it for the modern era.

If 'their' F1 car wins, powered by Mercedes - it might suddenly not look so bad that their road cars are 50% Mercedes. I can sort of see it making a lot of sense if handled correctly and Toto does have exceptional form. Actually in terms of brand elevation, so does Stroll.

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
TheDeuce said:
Luckily for us all, I think that even if he was put in the best car with a team mate not allowed or capable of passing him... he still wouldn't have what it takes to become WDC.

His father knows that he can only gift him the current F1 seat because he's rich enough, so I'm guessing above all else he wants his investments to pay off... And that alone would hopefully preclude giving his son a seat in a car that with a better driver could actually win both titles.

Also if any of it's true and he is to partner up in such a huge way with Toto, I'm thinking Toto has probably already considered and addressed that particular concern.
Stroll is no Florence Foster Jenkins, but he's no Hamilton, Verstappen, or Leclerk either. I can't see Wolff getting into bed with a team that would be little more than a vanity project.
Yea it would never happen. No way is Toto going to accept anything other than the best driver for the job in any team he manages, let alone owns. Stroll isn't a complete mungbean, he will know that too!

davidd

Original Poster:

6,099 posts

242 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
In a way, the bigger the hole the better if you're an investor and genuinely believe you can fix it up. Buy low, sell high..

And brand-wise Aston are pretty solid, and so well known/loved, always potential value in such a brand. They are currently stuck as they don't have the capital or scale of sales to keep up with modern car tech development, hence the recent and slightly uncomfortable switch to Mercedes drive-train, engines, infotainment etc etc. But one way to give them a sexy edge, a reason to continue to exist, would be to bolster their racing heritage and renew it for the modern era.

If 'their' F1 car wins, powered by Mercedes - it might suddenly not look so bad that their road cars are 50% Mercedes. I can sort of see it making a lot of sense if handled correctly and Toto does have exceptional form. Actually in terms of brand elevation, so does Stroll.
It could make sense and it could happen however, I don't think it will. It is all just leaked nonsense to distract from what is really going on.

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
davidd said:
...It is all just leaked nonsense to distract from what is really going on.
That could be true, I referenced that in my earlier post. With so much detail and a plan that does sort of make sense I'd say the story is either true, and leaked to the annoyance of those involved.. Or leaked by those involved to mask whatever is actually going on, or simply gauge public reaction to the idea.

Lets wait and see. Although the story would be so big and involve so many big names that I doubt we'll have to wait too long for pervasive journalists to either prove or debunk it.

Fundoreen

1,757 posts

41 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
Mercedes spend big but seem to profit from F1 and I bet they revolve engineers between F1 and the rest of the company.
How does this work with Aston Martin. Can they afford to put as much money in? They have none.
Even Lance Strolls dad is not that rich.
Doesn't Lance Strolls dad have his hands full bringing Racing point along.
I would think a lot of the talent will bleed away once they are no longer in the cosy warmth of the mercedes family.
Only leaves solution of some despotic sheik bankrolling it all.
Mercedes moves from beloved team to pariah status with all their titles quickly forgotten.
Lewis suddenly gets first moral conundrum to deal with.

Bradgate

2,265 posts

105 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
Jim Holder and Dieter Rencken are senior, credible journalists so it’s reasonable to assume they have good sources for their story about the Daimler board reviewing their involvement in F1 as a constructor, rather than an engine supplier.

The history of F1 teaches us that manufacturers enter and leave the sport in accordance with their commercial interests at the relevant time. Except Ferrari, of course. It may well be that Mercedes sees this as a logical time to pull out and concentrate on Formula E, which represents the technology of the future.

The stuff involving Aston Martin and Stroll sounds highly speculative, to put it mildly.

HustleRussell

18,466 posts

118 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
Lawrence Stroll is a smart cookie. Buying a sinking car company and an F1 team, two huge high profile liabilities, at the same time, doesn’t seem like a very ‘self-made millionaire’ thing to do.

PGN

178 posts

172 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
Don't like to say I told you so but... https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Lawrence Stroll is a smart cookie. Buying a sinking car company and an F1 team, two huge high profile liabilities, at the same time, doesn’t seem like a very ‘self-made millionaire’ thing to do.
I would say that buying the right examples of any such entity are classical examples of self made millionaires. Ask Bernie.. It's never what it's worth, it's how you're positioned to add value. Business in the most dispassionate sense is 'buy>add value>exit'.

It's the two entities (team plus Aston) at the same time that should give pause for consideration.. Common wisdom doesn't make for business opportunities, you have to have the imagination to think a few steps further on. Also money, which they do of course have.

I am not for one moment accepting any of this as true. The fact is though that Mercedes could realistically consider it better to quit as all time winners, and that leaves the team. The team without Toto is only worth so much, so the person best positioned to buy at a good price is Toto himself, on the basis he's only part of the package if he buys it. Mercedes have also proved a positive marketing result from F1, but their future no longer benefits from that type of exposure. Aston's could though. It's been a few years since the Mercedes F1 team has cost Mercedes anything much, if anything at all. If Toto could keep that situation alive for long enough to add significant value to Aston Martin, why not? The team only has to be self sufficient budget wise, whilst all the time the road car brand gets the benefit. Own both, and you have control. Again, see Bernie for reference.

Teddy Lop

3,665 posts

25 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Lawrence Stroll is a smart cookie. Buying a sinking car company and an F1 team, two huge high profile liabilities, at the same time, doesn’t seem like a very ‘self-made millionaire’ thing to do.
its my understanding there's very little (relatively speaking) of his own money in the midfield operation he "has".

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Wednesday 29th January
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
HustleRussell said:
Lawrence Stroll is a smart cookie. Buying a sinking car company and an F1 team, two huge high profile liabilities, at the same time, doesn’t seem like a very ‘self-made millionaire’ thing to do.
its my understanding there's very little (relatively speaking) of his own money in the midfield operation he "has".
He paid off their immediate liabilities and took control, I assume at close to or actual zero value. Beyond that, he doesn't need to tie up his own money so long as the super low budget team does enough to self sustain via sponsorship etc. That is in no way a measure of his own spending power - a simple google search informs that much.