F1 not "Woke" enough
Discussion
Nampahc Niloc said:
TheDeuce said:
Teddy Lop said:
The problem is these are essentially cowardly
s and they need to see weakness first, if you pander to them by ditching grid girls, bring in formula-w etc they see a safe compliant target and attack.You need to act like you just don't care for their weird little world
s. I've followed f1 nigh on 30 year now and while I wouldn't try to claim its without fault - when you look away from internet social media f
ktards and at the actual people who follow the sport more open minded bunch of sports fans you'll struggle to find - every f1 fan proper is a fan of at least half the drivers on the grid, most of which don't share their nationality for starts. Gimme a trans driver tomorrow and most wouldn't care - but then, I suppose woke culture would be to idolize and patronize the trans and generally ignorantly demean.StevieBee said:
Has anyone read Ben Elton's book 'Identity Crisis'?
It's supposed to be an ironic/humorous take on the whole woke thing but I'm beginning to think it's non-fiction.
I think it is - but only for those folk that have so little else driving their lives that they obsess over identity way too much.It's supposed to be an ironic/humorous take on the whole woke thing but I'm beginning to think it's non-fiction.
I work in TV/Films/Theatre/Fashion - so it's not going to shock anyone to learn I'm frequently working with a wide variety of LGBT folk. But there is none of this identity chatter when I'm on a project, literally doesn't come up. I've never once heard anyone complain of unfair treatment either. I would compare it to F1 as a career to a (limited) degree, because everyone is focused purely on getting a good job done under often challenging circumstances and stupidly long hours of work, supporting one anothers work effort and basically taking pride in the results of our work, over and above worrying too much about ourselves as individuals. It's a true group effort. Also like F1, everyone is only there if they're good at what they do, because everyone is a freelancer or micro Ltd, so of course only those that are good keep in work. I would conclude that that's why these issues that seem to tie up modern society and culture aren't an issue in my line of work - we're all just too damn busy to be self obsessed or entitled. All this talk of freedom to be... Work and passion sets you free, not bleating
TheDeuce said:
I think it is - but only for those folk that have so little else driving their lives that they obsess over identity way too much.
I work in TV/Films/Theatre/Fashion - so it's not going to shock anyone to learn I'm frequently working with a wide variety of LGBT folk. But there is none of this identity chatter when I'm on a project, literally doesn't come up. I've never once heard anyone complain of unfair treatment either. I would compare it to F1 as a career to a (limited) degree, because everyone is focused purely on getting a good job done under often challenging circumstances and stupidly long hours of work, supporting one anothers work effort and basically taking pride in the results of our work, over and above worrying too much about ourselves as individuals. It's a true group effort. Also like F1, everyone is only there if they're good at what they do, because everyone is a freelancer or micro Ltd, so of course only those that are good keep in work. I would conclude that that's why these issues that seem to tie up modern society and culture aren't an issue in my line of work - we're all just too damn busy to be self obsessed or entitled. All this talk of freedom to be... Work and passion sets you free, not bleating
Yes !I work in TV/Films/Theatre/Fashion - so it's not going to shock anyone to learn I'm frequently working with a wide variety of LGBT folk. But there is none of this identity chatter when I'm on a project, literally doesn't come up. I've never once heard anyone complain of unfair treatment either. I would compare it to F1 as a career to a (limited) degree, because everyone is focused purely on getting a good job done under often challenging circumstances and stupidly long hours of work, supporting one anothers work effort and basically taking pride in the results of our work, over and above worrying too much about ourselves as individuals. It's a true group effort. Also like F1, everyone is only there if they're good at what they do, because everyone is a freelancer or micro Ltd, so of course only those that are good keep in work. I would conclude that that's why these issues that seem to tie up modern society and culture aren't an issue in my line of work - we're all just too damn busy to be self obsessed or entitled. All this talk of freedom to be... Work and passion sets you free, not bleating
Blink982 said:
What is this ‘woke’ ste anyway?
I couldn’t read the article as I’m not a Torygraph reader but from the headline, all I have to say is, “bks”. I couldn’t give a tuppeny hoot who drives or who attends the races as long as it’s entertaining and isn’t watered down for the woke/snowflake/LGBTGQBBCITV generation/community or whatever else is in vogue this week thanks to the joys of social media. Again, “bks”.
Motorsport is about the best cars, engineers, designers and most importantly, drivers. The end.
Absolutely , never heard of "woke" before Ricky Gervais made that well publicized awards speech the other week . Some people need to wake up and get a fte anyway?I couldn’t read the article as I’m not a Torygraph reader but from the headline, all I have to say is, “b
ks”. I couldn’t give a tuppeny hoot who drives or who attends the races as long as it’s entertaining and isn’t watered down for the woke/snowflake/LGBTGQBBCITV generation/community or whatever else is in vogue this week thanks to the joys of social media. Again, “bks”.Motorsport is about the best cars, engineers, designers and most importantly, drivers. The end.
king grip .StevieBee said:
I left a comment. As I wrote, I'll cut and paste that:
Name me a Premiership Football team managed by a woman? Name me a sport in which women are permitted to compete on equal terms with men (and often beat them)? Name a rugby team that employs female strategists? Motorsport is a meritocracy - if you are good enough or quick enough - that is enough. It's a sport in which cream rises to the top regardless of anything else. To assume otherwise is to demonstrate ignorance as to what makes the sport tick. The marketability of a female or LGBT driver emerging capable of competing at the highest level would be immense to a level that could put straight drivers at a disadvantage. The fact that there's yet to emerge anyone is because, quite simply, there's none currently good enough. That's really it. It really, really is that simple.
^^^^ Wot 'e said.Name me a Premiership Football team managed by a woman? Name me a sport in which women are permitted to compete on equal terms with men (and often beat them)? Name a rugby team that employs female strategists? Motorsport is a meritocracy - if you are good enough or quick enough - that is enough. It's a sport in which cream rises to the top regardless of anything else. To assume otherwise is to demonstrate ignorance as to what makes the sport tick. The marketability of a female or LGBT driver emerging capable of competing at the highest level would be immense to a level that could put straight drivers at a disadvantage. The fact that there's yet to emerge anyone is because, quite simply, there's none currently good enough. That's really it. It really, really is that simple.
Pericoloso said:
Perhaps Poppy wassername hasn't noticed all the female engineers and other staff that are seen on tv coverage.
The banning of grid girls was the first step down the woke ladder of doom.
For this ageing attender of Grands Prix since the early 70s it was the long overdue sign that F1 was aware of changes in society. Girls trussed up ;like turkeys so middle aged men can perv over them ? It's all a bit Benny Hill for me... The banning of grid girls was the first step down the woke ladder of doom.
StevieBee said:
I left a comment. As I wrote, I'll cut and paste that:
Name me a Premiership Football team managed by a woman? Name me a sport in which women are permitted to compete on equal terms with men (and often beat them)? Name a rugby team that employs female strategists? Motorsport is a meritocracy - if you are good enough or quick enough - that is enough. It's a sport in which cream rises to the top regardless of anything else. To assume otherwise is to demonstrate ignorance as to what makes the sport tick. The marketability of a female or LGBT driver emerging capable of competing at the highest level would be immense to a level that could put straight drivers at a disadvantage. The fact that there's yet to emerge anyone is because, quite simply, there's none currently good enough. That's really it. It really, really is that simple.
Do you honestly believe that women and LGBTQ+ folks get exactly the same opportunities in motorsport at all levels, that straight men do?Name me a Premiership Football team managed by a woman? Name me a sport in which women are permitted to compete on equal terms with men (and often beat them)? Name a rugby team that employs female strategists? Motorsport is a meritocracy - if you are good enough or quick enough - that is enough. It's a sport in which cream rises to the top regardless of anything else. To assume otherwise is to demonstrate ignorance as to what makes the sport tick. The marketability of a female or LGBT driver emerging capable of competing at the highest level would be immense to a level that could put straight drivers at a disadvantage. The fact that there's yet to emerge anyone is because, quite simply, there's none currently good enough. That's really it. It really, really is that simple.
Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
BenjiS said:
Do you honestly believe that women and LGBTQ+ folks get exactly the same opportunities in motorsport at all levels, that straight men do?
Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
99% of people have exactly the same lack of opportunity, irrespective of their sex/sexuality/gender/colour.Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
A tiny minority who have exceptional ability/wealth/contacts, and are in the right place at the right time, with enough determination, and little bit of luck make it.
BenjiS said:
Do you honestly believe that women and LGBTQ+ folks get exactly the same opportunities in motorsport at all levels, that straight men do?
Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
There absolutely is equality of opportunity, from every perspective except that of how wealthy you are. Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
Anyone, regardless of race, sexual persuasion, ideology, religion - you name it - is able to try to compete as all those who make it to professional levels have done.
Simply put in the effort to go out racing karts every weekend from the age of 8, dedicate yourself to the sport and if you're any good there’s no reason why you won’t succeed.
As far as other areas are concerned, my son has worked in F1 for over 15 years, as part of 5 Championship winning teams and alongside some of the biggest names in the game.
He also works with colleagues of different race, gender and sexuality.
You’re just wrong.
REALIST123 said:
BenjiS said:
Do you honestly believe that women and LGBTQ+ folks get exactly the same opportunities in motorsport at all levels, that straight men do?
Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
There absolutely is equality of opportunity, from every perspective except that of how wealthy you are. Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
Anyone, regardless of race, sexual persuasion, ideology, religion - you name it - is able to try to compete as all those who make it to professional levels have done.
Simply put in the effort to go out racing karts every weekend from the age of 8, dedicate yourself to the sport and if you're any good there’s no reason why you won’t succeed.
As far as other areas are concerned, my son has worked in F1 for over 15 years, as part of 5 Championship winning teams and alongside some of the biggest names in the game.
He also works with colleagues of different race, gender and sexuality.
You’re just wrong.
BenjiS said:
StevieBee said:
I left a comment. As I wrote, I'll cut and paste that:
Name me a Premiership Football team managed by a woman? Name me a sport in which women are permitted to compete on equal terms with men (and often beat them)? Name a rugby team that employs female strategists? Motorsport is a meritocracy - if you are good enough or quick enough - that is enough. It's a sport in which cream rises to the top regardless of anything else. To assume otherwise is to demonstrate ignorance as to what makes the sport tick. The marketability of a female or LGBT driver emerging capable of competing at the highest level would be immense to a level that could put straight drivers at a disadvantage. The fact that there's yet to emerge anyone is because, quite simply, there's none currently good enough. That's really it. It really, really is that simple.
Do you honestly believe that women and LGBTQ+ folks get exactly the same opportunities in motorsport at all levels, that straight men do?Name me a Premiership Football team managed by a woman? Name me a sport in which women are permitted to compete on equal terms with men (and often beat them)? Name a rugby team that employs female strategists? Motorsport is a meritocracy - if you are good enough or quick enough - that is enough. It's a sport in which cream rises to the top regardless of anything else. To assume otherwise is to demonstrate ignorance as to what makes the sport tick. The marketability of a female or LGBT driver emerging capable of competing at the highest level would be immense to a level that could put straight drivers at a disadvantage. The fact that there's yet to emerge anyone is because, quite simply, there's none currently good enough. That's really it. It really, really is that simple.
Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
Women even have their own series! Drivers and participants from BME backgrounds are found in almost all series (including F1). There's a generation of drivers coming through that emerged from a generation when LGBTQ+ became an accepted part of society and is thus reflected in the acceptance within their chosen sport. That those from these groups are not overly represented is, I would suspect, more to do with the fact that it just doesn't appeal to them and not down to any institutional aversion to welcoming them to the sport.
There will be some who retain a more antiquated view of such things within the sport - as there are in wider society.
What wrangles me about the whole 'woke' thing is the selective nature of the narrative. Look at Rock Music - a genre dominated by heterosexual men singing songs to an audience of largely heterosexual men about having sex with heterosexual women. As far as I'm aware, little has been spoken of by the woke-wavers of this so why not Rock and why MotorSport when the argument towards Rock might at least have a modicum of basis?
BenjiS said:
Do you honestly believe that women and LGBTQ+ folks get exactly the same opportunities in motorsport at all levels, that straight men do?
Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
Crystal clear to me. Whatever self identification the upcoming drivers might make at some point, they would have started in karts at an age before 99.99% would think about such things. If they're already proven faster than average and maintain that as they grow, they're going to keep being selected.Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.
Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
Performance. Performance. Performance.
Whilst undeniably motorsport has been a traditionally masculine pursuit I’d say there was also less sexism than many other sports within all areas, i honestly can’t imagine any team manager giving a st if a driver was male/female/trans/gay/bi/straight, if they can drive the car faster than anyone else they get the job. And I’d say the average motorsport fan was probably less concerned about a drivers sexuality and gender than an average football fan.
t if a driver was male/female/trans/gay/bi/straight, if they can drive the car faster than anyone else they get the job. And I’d say the average motorsport fan was probably less concerned about a drivers sexuality and gender than an average football fan. Newscuttlepanel said:
Whilst undeniably motorsport has been a traditionally masculine pursuit I’d say there was also less sexism than many other sports within all areas, i honestly can’t imagine any team manager giving a st if a driver was male/female/trans/gay/bi/straight, if they can drive the car faster than anyone else they get the job. And I’d say the average motorsport fan was probably less concerned about a drivers sexuality and gender than an average football fan.
The first female driver in F1 was around before the phrase 'sexism' was coined I'd think...t if a driver was male/female/trans/gay/bi/straight, if they can drive the car faster than anyone else they get the job. And I’d say the average motorsport fan was probably less concerned about a drivers sexuality and gender than an average football fan. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff