F1 not "Woke" enough

F1 not "Woke" enough

Author
Discussion

Stuart70

2,121 posts

141 months

Friday 14th February
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TheDeuce said:
Work and passion sets you free, not bleating
I think I have just found my tag line for life. Thanks. smile

p4cks

4,742 posts

157 months

Friday 14th February
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Looking through her previous articles it appears she has somewhat of an agenda: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/authors/poppy-mckenzie...

fk off Poppy.

clubracing

287 posts

164 months

Friday 14th February
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Seems like the articles author has probably got exactly the response she was aiming for going by most of the posts on here rolleyes

I'm not a Telegraph subscriber, so I've only read the first couple of paragraphs, but with references to James Hunt and Durex from nigh on 50 years ago, I feel pretty confident that it's mostly just clickbait rubbish. I don't think anyone could say honestly that current F1 drivers conform to a 'macho stereotypes'.

I don't agree though that women and LBGT+ drivers have exactly the same opportunity as straight men. They still have to deal with the same challenges as they do in any ordinary work place. For example, a lot of star drivers personal sponsors start with them in lower formula and pay for their way up the racing ladder, and that relationship is grown as their career progresses. The company execs in positions to decide who to partner with as sponsors, make those decisions with the same biases against women/minorities, which are evident in making it more difficult for them to progress in more ordinary walks of life.

WinstonWolf

72,773 posts

197 months

Friday 14th February
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And that's why James Hunt was one of my role models as a young boy...


longblackcoat

4,440 posts

141 months

Friday 14th February
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WinstonWolf said:


And that's why James Hunt was one of my role models as a young boy...
And one of the reasons that I think of him as a wasted talent. He never bothered to work at it, just relied on his ability. Could have been so much more than he was.



longblackcoat

4,440 posts

141 months

Friday 14th February
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TheDeuce said:
Work and passion sets you free, not bleating smile
Arbeit macht frei? I'm sure I've heard that phrase before..............


REALIST123

14,015 posts

111 months

Friday 14th February
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clubracing said:
Seems like the articles author has probably got exactly the response she was aiming for going by most of the posts on here rolleyes

I'm not a Telegraph subscriber, so I've only read the first couple of paragraphs, but with references to James Hunt and Durex from nigh on 50 years ago, I feel pretty confident that it's mostly just clickbait rubbish. I don't think anyone could say honestly that current F1 drivers conform to a 'macho stereotypes'.

I don't agree though that women and LBGT+ drivers have exactly the same opportunity as straight men. They still have to deal with the same challenges as they do in any ordinary work place. For example, a lot of star drivers personal sponsors start with them in lower formula and pay for their way up the racing ladder, and that relationship is grown as their career progresses. The company execs in positions to decide who to partner with as sponsors, make those decisions with the same biases against women/minorities, which are evident in making it more difficult for them to progress in more ordinary walks of life.
I think you’ll find, in fact I know you’ll find, that proper commercial sponsorship rarely comes into it until someone’s already at the top. It’s almost without exception family or related money that pushes careers along.

In that respect minorities have the same opportunities. They just need to be similarly lucky in being burn close to money.

clubracing

287 posts

164 months

Friday 14th February
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REALIST123 said:
I think you’ll find, in fact I know you’ll find, that proper commercial sponsorship rarely comes into it until someone’s already at the top. It’s almost without exception family or related money that pushes careers along.

In that respect minorities have the same opportunities. They just need to be similarly lucky in being burn close to money.
Really?

Bottas and Wihuri, Nasr and Banco do Brasil, Perez and Telmex, Sirotkin and SMP Bank and plenty others too, where the sponsorship has been with the driver, not a team, and that money has allowed their career to progress.



Edited by clubracing on Friday 14th February 12:34

Bertrum

428 posts

181 months

Friday 14th February
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I would argue Charlie Martin is given racing opportunities beyond ability because of being trans.

She was worried that she would not be accepted back into the hill climb paddock, as it happened no one gave a st.

This being the nub of the issue, LBGTQ are a minority, they are the ones that worry about acceptance and that spills over into pity which is weird. As no one that I’ve come across in the racing community cares about sexuality, gender or anything else, if you are quick you will be respected.

Eventually people will realise that and leave us alone.




Mr_Thyroid

1,893 posts

185 months

Friday 14th February
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StevieBee said:
I would suspect, more to do with the fact that it just doesn't appeal to them and not down to any institutional aversion to welcoming them to the sport.
And why do you think it doesn't appeal to them? Because gay people like dancing and dressing up, they don't like cars?

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Friday 14th February
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Mr_Thyroid said:
StevieBee said:
I would suspect, more to do with the fact that it just doesn't appeal to them and not down to any institutional aversion to welcoming them to the sport.
And why do you think it doesn't appeal to them? Because gay people like dancing and dressing up, they don't like cars?
That was a disappointing reaction to a reasonable supposition imo. It's entirely possible there is statistically a difference in the appeal of our sport between different social groups. Hard to prove but no need to be dismissive.

carinaman

15,778 posts

130 months

Friday 14th February
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Someone should get Spanners on the Missed Apex podcast to ask Uncle Joe Saward if F1 is woke enough.

longblackcoat

4,440 posts

141 months

Friday 14th February
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carinaman said:
Someone should get Spanners on the Missed Apex podcast to ask Uncle Joe Saward if F1 is woke enough.
Joe didn't react well to that line of questioning on the podcast he used to guest on previously.............

StevieBee

9,087 posts

213 months

Friday 14th February
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Mr_Thyroid said:
StevieBee said:
I would suspect, more to do with the fact that it just doesn't appeal to them and not down to any institutional aversion to welcoming them to the sport.
And why do you think it doesn't appeal to them? Because gay people like dancing and dressing up, they don't like cars?
No. If I might say so, that's a ridiculous suggestion.

You like what you like and we're all drawn to different things for different reasons - none of which is determined by sexual orientation or gender.

I don't care much for football or rugby. That doesn't mean I'm gay. It just means I don't care much for football or rugby.



Kraken

1,536 posts

158 months

Friday 14th February
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Statistically motorsport is out of kilter. Does that mean it's prejudice or that LGBTQ people don't make good drivers. I don't have a clue hence why I'm not ranting and raving in this thread.

Mr_Thyroid

1,893 posts

185 months

Friday 14th February
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TheDeuce said:
Mr_Thyroid said:
StevieBee said:
I would suspect, more to do with the fact that it just doesn't appeal to them and not down to any institutional aversion to welcoming them to the sport.
And why do you think it doesn't appeal to them? Because gay people like dancing and dressing up, they don't like cars?
That was a disappointing reaction to a reasonable supposition imo. It's entirely possible there is statistically a difference in the appeal of our sport between different social groups. Hard to prove but no need to be dismissive.
No, you are being dismissive of the suggestion that there could be unconscious (or maybe not) bias that helps to exclude certain groups and you've chosen to take offense at my joke because you've got no other answer. I'll ask again, why do you suppose that motorsport appeals to white straight men more than other groups - it's pretty weird isn't it since we're all basically the same - logically gender, race or sexuality should have no impact on how much someone likes brum-brum cars going zoom-zoom.

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Friday 14th February
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Mr_Thyroid said:
No, you are being dismissive of the suggestion that there could be unconscious (or maybe not) bias that helps to exclude certain groups and you've chosen to take offense at my joke because you've got no other answer. I'll ask again, why do you suppose that motorsport appeals to white straight men more than other groups - it's pretty weird isn't it since we're all basically the same - logically gender, race or sexuality should have no impact on how much someone likes brum-brum cars going zoom-zoom.
I don't think I've been dismissive at all. I've simply said that I think it's quite possible different lifestyles will equal different leanings towards things in general. That's perfectly normal surely? As for why it's mostly straight white men... I'd say that's because such people had an easier time of it in life for the last several hundred years, hence they found time for acceptance and achievement and they became the expected norm. It really wasn't that long ago that people really did think that black people were a sub species in some way.. but that's all history, not opinion. The reality is that the modern person is bending over backwards to make sure everything is inclusive and they're taking responsibility for that on a personal level. Campaigns etc, no longer required imo - the core change has happened. Certainly F1 is about the last thing that needs to be singled out for some special attention in regards of equality.

There will for sure be a few bigoted people even in F1. But most of those people are motivated to find the best route to performance - regardless of their personal views... And if there remains a handful of people with some influence that really would block a person inspite of their performance, I would say their career is going to be very short lived moving forward. No need for a campaign or worry in F1 because of a potential extreme minority whose views will ultimately distract them from being good at their job anyway.

coppice

6,312 posts

102 months

Friday 14th February
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The name of Mike Beuttler is not high up in the F1 pantheon but he was a handy enough driver in a March in the early 70s. Popular guy , but who never did come out - he died of Aids in LA - and I suspect in those less enlightened times he simply felt unable to do so. See also ERA/BRM man Raymond Mays .

I loved the cars of those times but am glad we have moved on from that era as a society.

jimPH

1,639 posts

38 months

Friday 14th February
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Michelle Mouton did pretty well in WRC. It's not like women haven't had chances in Motorsport. Loads of Good women drivers that are respected.

jimPH

1,639 posts

38 months

Friday 14th February
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TheDeuce said:
BenjiS said:
Do you honestly believe that women and LGBTQ+ folks get exactly the same opportunities in motorsport at all levels, that straight men do?

Everyone needs an opportunity to prove they’re good enough, even in a meritocracy. If opportunity is withheld, then there discrimination, intentional or otherwise, present.

Quite rightly in motorsport, there isn’t equality of outcome, but there should be equality of opportunity.
Crystal clear to me. Whatever self identification the upcoming drivers might make at some point, they would have started in karts at an age before 99.99% would think about such things. If they're already proven faster than average and maintain that as they grow, they're going to keep being selected.

Performance. Performance. Performance.
Money money money.. (unfortunately)

Lance Stroll
Maldonardo

We've also got a crop of juniors who had fast dad's.