F1 cancelled this year?
Discussion
F1 at risk of breaching loan covenants says JP Morgan
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/25/f1...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/25/f1...
Blib said:
F1 at risk of breaching loan covenants says JP Morgan
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/25/f1...
Cue Mr Ecclestone.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/25/f1...
Everyone that has any financial commitments is at risk of breaching the terms at present, what is different about this one? Everyone from the small hairdresser with the lease and the bank loan, right up to the airlines.
Amusing that it is JPM who have commented. They paid their billionaire CEO $31.5 million last year. $30 million of which was performance related bonuses, so they will both know all about the effect of breaching covenants this year, when he fails to hit the targets and they fail to pay him the bonus!
Amusing that it is JPM who have commented. They paid their billionaire CEO $31.5 million last year. $30 million of which was performance related bonuses, so they will both know all about the effect of breaching covenants this year, when he fails to hit the targets and they fail to pay him the bonus!
Another thing to remember is that the reported numbers are just based on those tested. Right now, in the UK, I would be surprised if less than 1.5 million people have the virus, most show no symptoms and very few are tested. I would expect to see a downturn in new cases by early June, but no real chance of international travel before September. F1 counts as a world championship if there are at least 8 races. This will probably only be possible if they extend into early 2021.
LucyP said:
It's nothing like 1.5 million in the UK! Germany have done a lot of testing and they have less than 36,000 confirmed cases. The UK hasn't done as much testing and has just over 8,000 cases.
That's not what he said. He said that he wouldn't be surprised if there were at least 1.5 million actual (as in whether reported or not) cases and you're saying he's wrong because there are only just over 8,000 confirmed (as in tested and diagnosed) cases, whilst acknowledging there hasn't been much testing. How many mild or asymptomatic cases, which have obviously not been reported, do you believe there to be in pooh-poohing his statement? None, it seems.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
LucyP said:
It's nothing like 1.5 million in the UK! Germany have done a lot of testing and they have less than 36,000 confirmed cases. The UK hasn't done as much testing and has just over 8,000 cases.
That's not what he said. He said that he wouldn't be surprised if there were at least 1.5 million actual (as in whether reported or not) cases and you're saying he's wrong because there are only just over 8,000 confirmed (as in tested and diagnosed) cases, whilst acknowledging there hasn't been much testing. How many mild or asymptomatic cases, which have obviously not been reported, do you believe there to be in pooh-poohing his statement? None, it seems.
Some of them even had it last year..............
janesmith1950 said:
F1 is in a precarious position. The balance of power is now swinging to the teams as Liberty doesn't have them under contract and looks like it's going to need their support.
I wonder if Mercedes will continue. The green movement in Germany is gaining great influence while the car manufacturers are in a fair bit of trouble now. I think he real decisions will happen above the teams themselves.Resuming business in a recession and plunging back into the most expensive sport in the world might not be a priority.
If I were on the board of Daimler, Renault or Honda I'd be struggling to support continued investment in F1. The contractual position, this abortive season, emergence of mainstream on-road EV and their respective recoveries from the current situation create a natural break point.
I imagine Mercedes could continue engine supply, though perhaps even that could be done by selling the HPE division.
I imagine Mercedes could continue engine supply, though perhaps even that could be done by selling the HPE division.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
That's not what he said. He said that he wouldn't be surprised if there were at least 1.5 million actual (as in whether reported or not) cases and you're saying he's wrong because there are only just over 8,000 confirmed (as in tested and diagnosed) cases, whilst acknowledging there hasn't been much testing.
How many mild or asymptomatic cases, which have obviously not been reported, do you believe there to be in pooh-poohing his statement? None, it seems.
Read my post again. I said that Germany had done a lot of testing and they have 37,000 cases. If we had 1.5 million cases, then so would Germany and the extensive German testing would have revealed a lot more than 37,000 cases. I agree that we have more than the 8,000 who have been tested, but we don't have anything like 1.5 million, neither has Germany. How many mild or asymptomatic cases, which have obviously not been reported, do you believe there to be in pooh-poohing his statement? None, it seems.
LucyP said:
Read my post again. I said that Germany had done a lot of testing and they have 37,000 cases. If we had 1.5 million cases, then so would Germany and the extensive German testing would have revealed a lot more than 37,000 cases. I agree that we have more than the 8,000 who have been tested, but we don't have anything like 1.5 million, neither has Germany.
I'm sure this is all lovely, however it's way off topic and there are other places to discuss this side of things. I agree Janesmith. Renault will definitely be gone this year. Honda may or may not stay. It depends on how much the engine supply deal with the Red Bull group costs them. Mercedes will probably sell out to Wolff and remain an engine supplier to Wolff's team and the others that they currently supply and who remain in F1.
janesmith1950 said:
If I were on the board of Daimler, Renault or Honda I'd be struggling to support continued investment in F1. The contractual position, this abortive season, emergence of mainstream on-road EV and their respective recoveries from the current situation create a natural break point.
I imagine Mercedes could continue engine supply, though perhaps even that could be done by selling the HPE division.
It's tricky, the facts (as we know with regard to Mercedes) is that F1 works for them in terms of marketing, even in a transforming market. The same must follow for other car makers that have stayed in the sport.I imagine Mercedes could continue engine supply, though perhaps even that could be done by selling the HPE division.
But... Post virus we have a very ugly global recession to deal with, and typically during the first few years of a recession, people put off buying new cars or houses. It might very well be that no matter how good F1 is as a platform, that there simply aren't a worthwhile number of potential customers out there for a while.
On the other hand.. Mercedes have unfinished business in F1, the value of the longest winning streak in history combined with most successful driver in history is something they could feast on for decades.
Tbh, right now.. even with the messiah LucyP here to advise us all, I think the situation is just too changeable and interwoven to be sure of what's going to happen in F1, who might remain/leave, or why.
janesmith1950 said:
If I were on the board of Daimler, Renault or Honda I'd be struggling to support continued investment in F1. The contractual position, this abortive season, emergence of mainstream on-road EV and their respective recoveries from the current situation create a natural break point.
I imagine Mercedes could continue engine supply, though perhaps even that could be done by selling the HPE division.
And if it opens the door to engine suppliers such as Cosworth that would be dandy.I imagine Mercedes could continue engine supply, though perhaps even that could be done by selling the HPE division.
janesmith1950 said:
F1 is in a precarious position. The balance of power is now swinging to the teams as Liberty doesn't have them under contract and looks like it's going to need their support.
The worst case scenario predictions would see the end of F1 as we know it.With the potential of a whole year of lost revenues, and global recession on the the other side, there will be casualties. If a couple of manufacturers pulled out it would make the hybrid PUs untenable. We could even lose a couple of teams, and I can't see anyone else stepping in to the breach in that situation.
What of Liberty themselves? They took on a lot of debt to buy F1, so this will really be hurting them. And with the current Concorde Agreement expiring at the end of this year, they are not in a strong position to negotiate with the teams. Can they see out this storm, and if not, what then for F1?
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