F1 cancelled this year?
Discussion
kambites said:
There are plenty of other sports which will be far higher up the government's list of priorities than F1, and no sport is going to be very near the top. Football will obviously be the first to reappear, becasue every
likes football, right?janesmith1950 said:
I think you might be overplaying the financial value against the wider implications if something goes wrong. For all intents and purposes F1 is a minority sport of very rich people that forms entertainment. Outside of state sponsored nations where F1 rounds are bought for the cache, it isn't really at the front of any politicians' minds. The positive PR or economic value in F1 being given an exception pails into insignificance if it's allowed to travel and begins sending the virus around the world.
If F1 disappeared tomorrow from the world, the GDP blip would be barely noticeable.
No I'm not overplaying the importance of F1 - you might notice on each occasion I refer to international sports in general as a reason to make quarantine exceptions. All the pieces of that pie add up pretty big pie! And each government has a minister of sport or equivalent to drive that arguement and to present ways it can be done with reasonable safety.If F1 disappeared tomorrow from the world, the GDP blip would be barely noticeable.
It's not just international sports either. A carefully implementated alternative to quarantine for work trips only could ensure a very minimal impact upon transmission whilst unlocking all sorts of healthy economic activity.
I'm not for a moment suggesting any government will balance a decision purely for the benefit of F1. Do me a favour...
Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 19th May 15:22
To F1 in context, it's revenue recently has been around £1.6bn a year with very little profit. Tescos is more than £50bn with £1.5bn+ profit.
Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
janesmith1950 said:
To F1 in context, it's revenue recently has been around £1.6bn a year with very little profit. Tescos is more than £50bn with £1.5bn+ profit.
Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
nobody in F1, and very few people outside of Tesco's would give a rats ass if Tesco employees can or cannot travel abroad for work. Doubly so as you can Skype a meeting these days.Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
However there are plenty of people that want to see F1 and other sports return, so exemptions to quarantine may be required. Race horses have been exempt from quarantine for decades - but there is still a risk of them getting rabies.
If international sports can find a way to test personnel then they should be quarantine exempt.
Your profit argument is BS as well, the general public don't get anything from either organisation in terms of profits, they're just for the institutional investors.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
nobody in F1, and very few people outside of Tesco's would give a rats ass if Tesco employees can or cannot travel abroad for work. Doubly so as you can Skype a meeting these days.
However there are plenty of people that want to see F1 and other sports return, so exemptions to quarantine may be required. Race horses have been exempt from quarantine for decades - but there is still a risk of them getting rabies.
If international sports can find a way to test personnel then they should be quarantine exempt.
Your profit argument is BS as well, the general public don't get anything from either organisation in terms of profits, they're just for the institutional investors.
The argument was made (by others) that F1 and other sports generate sufficient income that they might justify an exemption on that basis. My reply was to point out that F1 isn't in that ball park, in relation to income. However there are plenty of people that want to see F1 and other sports return, so exemptions to quarantine may be required. Race horses have been exempt from quarantine for decades - but there is still a risk of them getting rabies.
If international sports can find a way to test personnel then they should be quarantine exempt.
Your profit argument is BS as well, the general public don't get anything from either organisation in terms of profits, they're just for the institutional investors.
As for your comment on profits, the people who benefit from Tesco profits are ordinary people like you and and me with pensions. The people who benefit from F1 profits, aren't.
janesmith1950 said:
To F1 in context, it's revenue recently has been around £1.6bn a year with very little profit. Tescos is more than £50bn with £1.5bn+ profit.
Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
How much does Sky pay for F1 coverage in the UK? And how many Sky employees are there? The impacts of not doing anything will ripple very widely.Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
janesmith1950 said:
To F1 in context, it's revenue recently has been around £1.6bn a year with very little profit. Tescos is more than £50bn with £1.5bn+ profit.
Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
Profit has almost nothing to do with economic value. It's about inland economic activity and the attainment of money from overseas.Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
Could you at least read what I have said properly ahead of rushing to reply each time? I couldn't have been more clear that there are endless excellent reasons to allow travel for work to be streamlined and that in no way I was saying F1 alone should or would justify what is required. So yes Tesco is far more economically important - and if their key people really have to travel that would be one example of no doubt several hundred good reasons to find ways of making that possible - ahead of F1 being considered. But they aren't going to set different rules for each industry sector and sub-sector... Either it's allowed or it isn't, and if it is that unlocks F1.
df76 said:
How much does Sky pay for F1 coverage in the UK? And how many Sky employees are there? The impacts of not doing anything will ripple very widely.
Sky pay about £120m to show F1 (for context, Premier League UK rights are about £1.5bn a season all in). The money simply sloshes into and around F1. Sky don't rely on F1 and the small number of people it employs for F1 duties isn't really here or there in the grand scheme of things. TheDeuce said:
Profit has almost nothing to do with economic value. It's about inland economic activity and the attainment of money from overseas.
Could you at least read what I have said properly ahead of rushing to reply each time? I couldn't have been more clear that there are endless excellent reasons to allow travel for work to be streamlined and that in no way I was saying F1 alone should or would justify what is required. So yes Tesco is far more economically important - and if their key people really have to travel that would be one example of no doubt several hundred good reasons to find ways of making that possible - ahead of F1 being considered. But they aren't going to set different rules for each industry sector and sub-sector... Either it's allowed or it isn't, and if it is that unlocks F1.
I read it, it's just most of the time it doesn't make sense and it's the sound of your own keyboard clickety clacking you on. Could you at least read what I have said properly ahead of rushing to reply each time? I couldn't have been more clear that there are endless excellent reasons to allow travel for work to be streamlined and that in no way I was saying F1 alone should or would justify what is required. So yes Tesco is far more economically important - and if their key people really have to travel that would be one example of no doubt several hundred good reasons to find ways of making that possible - ahead of F1 being considered. But they aren't going to set different rules for each industry sector and sub-sector... Either it's allowed or it isn't, and if it is that unlocks F1.
Back to reality...
The value of commercial sports activities in economic terms in the UK is approx £25bn. It could remain of the same value if none of it made a penny of 'profit' - anyone stuck on that principle might as well head to the back of the classroom.
In comparative terms, enough to pay for 20% of the NHS. It seems unlikely that allowing people to fly for work, having been tested regularly in advance and after, would somehow lead to an out of control situation in which they took more resource than those which they contribute to.
The value of commercial sports activities in economic terms in the UK is approx £25bn. It could remain of the same value if none of it made a penny of 'profit' - anyone stuck on that principle might as well head to the back of the classroom.
In comparative terms, enough to pay for 20% of the NHS. It seems unlikely that allowing people to fly for work, having been tested regularly in advance and after, would somehow lead to an out of control situation in which they took more resource than those which they contribute to.
janesmith1950 said:
To F1 in context, it's revenue recently has been around £1.6bn a year with very little profit. Tescos is more than £50bn with £1.5bn+ profit.
Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
Whilst you may be right about Tesco's massive economic contribution, don't forget that from a potential transmission of virus standpoint their business operation is likely to be providing a greater chance of virus spread throughout the public than F1 would ever be.Would you see it as proportionate to allow all the F1 personnel to skip quarantine whilst senior Tesco employees must quarantine when they return from work trips abroad?
If F1 employees were exempt from 14 day quarantine then the bubble in which they operate remains fairly small and I would perceive that those working in F1 are generally not considered to meet the vulnerable criteria by simple virtue of the nature of the job/travel. However if a Tesco employee of any grade returning from abroad was allowed an exemption then they would be interacting with multiple colleagues daily and therefore a substantial number of the public doing their shopping would be at higher risk.
I appreciate your point was somewhat hypothetical but your example comes apart when you consider that those who bring most to the economy also find themselves in a position to do the most damage to it with poor management.
Yes - Tesco may bring more to the economy financially, but it also has the potential to do more harm to the economy than virtually every other business industry if not properly managed because they have consistent interaction with a massive percentage of the population. Their staff should be subject to very strict quarantine rules in my opinion because the business model is a potential goldmine for transmission.
With that in mind, along with the fact that the F1 circus has very minimal interaction with the wider public then I would imagine that F1 is far more suitable for an exemption that a national corporation with locations and public contact in virtually every town and city throughout the UK.
janesmith1950 said:
It's all noise. F1 is but a meaningless drop of fun in life's ocean. I'm very much missing it but also pragmatic to its need to rush back and potentially damage itself more then it helps.
You are aware that no one is disagreeing with you on that point? Other than the fact it's not entirely meaningless in UK economic terms.This thread is about whether or not F1 can run. It's irrelevant if what enables it to run is a result of it being considered directly important, of if what is more widely considered important triggers changes that do allow it.
TheDeuce said:
vaud said:
LucyP said:
There is also a massive reliance on PPE in the documentation. Will that actually be available? We still do not know whether the Government will allow events to go ahead in 6 weeks time, when motor sport is planned to re-open? With shops and other businesses re-opening and people returning to work and going out more, everyone is going to want some form of PPE from masks to visors to the full set used in hospitals. Millions and millions of items. Where is it all coming from?
PPE doesn't need to be medical grade. It says "PPE in line with Government advice". Even in hospitals the full PPE is only used in COVID wards.Staff in Waitrose have PPE (masks, visors). I suspect UK motorsport can secure appropriate kit.
Why do they need millions?
Suspect F1 will do an awesome job of blocking transmission and others will adopt the same approaches. The key media will be given exclusive demonstrations of how the systems will work so that they have an interesting and positive story to write about how F1 is returning - as opposed to a purely speculative story questioning if it should or not.
PPE is just one of a hundred new factors that an army of very smart chaps and chapesses will be working on. Not just to achieve, but to achieve in ways that can be shown off and can lead the rest of the sporting world.
As to PPE, if F1 is so good at obtaining and making PPE, then why did they not do so for the NHS? At least 1 NHS trust could only source, and actually issued to its frontline medical staff - wait for it - cagoules! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-523535...
Red Bull and Renault were also working 18 hour days at the height of the epidemic on a ventilator, but the Government cancelled the order because it wasn't suitable. Dyson's design was similarly rejected.
As to medical grade PPE, try and get any PPE at the moment. The normal face masks that workmen use in dusty environments for instance. Screwfix won't sell you any because they have ringfenced it for the NHS and care providers.
LucyP said:
Millions will be needed by July, because the indication is that the public and most businesses will be out of lock down by then, and to operate and/or go out, masks will be required, visors in some instances (they have them in EU countries where schools have re-opened).
As to PPE, if F1 is so good at obtaining and making PPE, then why did they not do so for the NHS? At least 1 NHS trust could only source, and actually issued to its frontline medical staff - wait for it - cagoules! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-523535...
Red Bull and Renault were also working 18 hour days at the height of the epidemic on a ventilator, but the Government cancelled the order because it wasn't suitable. Dyson's design was similarly rejected.
As to medical grade PPE, try and get any PPE at the moment. The normal face masks that workmen use in dusty environments for instance. Screwfix won't sell you any because they have ringfenced it for the NHS and care providers.
First off stop being sexist. Something you've accused others for without any justification and then demonstrate your own established sexism!As to PPE, if F1 is so good at obtaining and making PPE, then why did they not do so for the NHS? At least 1 NHS trust could only source, and actually issued to its frontline medical staff - wait for it - cagoules! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-523535...
Red Bull and Renault were also working 18 hour days at the height of the epidemic on a ventilator, but the Government cancelled the order because it wasn't suitable. Dyson's design was similarly rejected.
As to medical grade PPE, try and get any PPE at the moment. The normal face masks that workmen use in dusty environments for instance. Screwfix won't sell you any because they have ringfenced it for the NHS and care providers.
What on earth has cancelled government contracts got to do with F1's ability to solve the problem of limited PPE for its own purposes? And yes... They could supply others... And as I said I'm sure they would make at least a token effort toward others (because obvious PR.. ). But they ultimately only have to supply themselves to solve their own requirements and if they can do that, there is nothing wrong with that.
10126 Torino said:
TheDeuce said:
First off stop being sexist. Something you've accused others for without any justification and then demonstrate your own established sexism!
.
Seriously ?.
She used the word workmen .
The horror !
But she has twice accused male members of this forum as being sexist with zero cause, not even a throwaway comment such as that. A lot of people were rightly disappointed when she chose that particular line of attack/defense.
Naturally that changes the appropriate response in return when she makes an actual sexist stereotype slip.
LucyP said:
As to PPE, if F1 is so good at obtaining and making PPE, then why did they not do so for the NHS? At least 1 NHS trust could only source, and actually issued to its frontline medical staff - wait for it - cagoules! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-523535...
Red Bull and Renault were also working 18 hour days at the height of the epidemic on a ventilator, but the Government cancelled the order because it wasn't suitable. Dyson's design was similarly rejected.
As to medical grade PPE, try and get any PPE at the moment. The normal face masks that workmen use in dusty environments for instance. Screwfix won't sell you any because they have ringfenced it for the NHS and care providers.
I can buy face masks online no problem at all. I used this company to send my nurse sister some hand sanitiser for her team when there were issues with it getting to the front line staff via the NHS admin system. There wasn't a shortage of what she needed in the system, but it didnt get to everyone because of internal NHS screwups. I sorted it out for her in one day, they now dont need my help because the cockups have been fixed. https://www.jennychem.com/collections/sanitising-a...Red Bull and Renault were also working 18 hour days at the height of the epidemic on a ventilator, but the Government cancelled the order because it wasn't suitable. Dyson's design was similarly rejected.
As to medical grade PPE, try and get any PPE at the moment. The normal face masks that workmen use in dusty environments for instance. Screwfix won't sell you any because they have ringfenced it for the NHS and care providers.
The PPE kit required in a hospital environment is different to that required in the general public. Those dealing with CV19 patients use N95 masks to stop the virus passing into the care staff's system.
The PPE kit the general population will use is a lower grade that does not stop the virus, it is used to stop a carrier of the virus transmitting it by exhaling droplets.
N95 masks protect the wearer, general spec masks protect other people.
The obvious reason F1 hasn't been making PPE is it's a mass production item, F1 is not the right engineering base for this.
Where F1 has produced goods has been in lower volume manufacture, with Mercedes making the high precision air control valves that have kept people off ventilators and McLaren making the trolleys for the ventilators that have been rolled out. The other teams working on ventilators weren't used because there hasn't been a shortage of them. Had that not been the case they would have used the F1 teams to ramp up supply. It's good news that the Red Bull kit wasn't required.
Getting back to F1 team staff movements, there will have to be a rotation of team staff for it to be workable if a quarantine of 14 days is required whilst travelling. That will probably work by having the build team in the factory not travelling to the events, so you isolate the teams into smaller groups. McLaren have already been doing this with their ventilator trolley build, where they have multiple teams kept apart.
If the race crew have to stay home for 14 days post a foreign trip they will do it, if they need to be away abroad for a month at a time, they will do it.
F1 is big enough to manage this, it's other motorsports like mine that can't, as we run on the minimum staff levels to work under normal times. It may be that we have events available at Spa in August we would normally attend, but we wont be able to because the cost of the quarantine post event is too high to make it a viable option. Same goes for when the sport gets opened up in the UK, we may be OK to attend but as all our drivers live outside the UK, they wont come because of the 14 day quarantine. God knows how you social distance in the pits at our events, we are usually on top of each other at the best of times.
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