F1 cancelled this year?

F1 cancelled this year?

Author
Discussion

TheDeuce

5,067 posts

19 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
wibble cb said:
Hang on, so fans are allowed now?

/confused/

wink

I read somewhere else that Mercedes have applied for a 10 billion euro overdraft...yet can afford F1?
F1 works for them, they get an excellent ROI via marketing in F1. Without F1, as of today, they would need an even bigger overdraft.. like many firms, they have to market to survive.

I know we laugh at the billions spent each year to get 20 cars to drive round in circles... But the truth is it's a fantastic marketing platform for those that make their investment in it work. Mercedes have made it work.

As for fans allowed.. maybe we'll see 2022 cars with ventilators hanging out the back to suck them to the track like a limpet - it's just to cool the engine, honest..

Eric Mc

111,102 posts

218 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
As ever, F1 was beaten to that idea years ago -



TheDeuce

5,067 posts

19 months

Monday 30th March
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
As ever, F1 was beaten to that idea years ago -

Wow - a limpet indeed!!

What car is under that limpet shell?

thegreenhell

6,801 posts

172 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
wibble cb said:
I read somewhere else that Mercedes have applied for a 10 billion euro overdraft...yet can afford F1?
F1 works for them, they get an excellent ROI via marketing in F1. Without F1, as of today, they would need an even bigger overdraft.. like many firms, they have to market to survive.

I know we laugh at the billions spent each year to get 20 cars to drive round in circles... But the truth is it's a fantastic marketing platform for those that make their investment in it work. Mercedes have made it work.
You know this 'ROI' is not real money that is quantifiable on their balance sheet, unlike the tens of millions that Daimler puts into the F1 team and HPP every year? It's what Mark Hanna would call 'fugazi'. It's even worse now that there's no F1 to promote all the cars they aren't building, and they're just a rather obvious and expensive non-core liability.

jsf

16,531 posts

189 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Wow - a limpet indeed!!

What car is under that limpet shell?
That is the car.

Chaparral 2J Can Am car.

It used a 2 stroke snowmobile engine to drive the fans, which often failed mid race.

TheDeuce

5,067 posts

19 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
TheDeuce said:
wibble cb said:
I read somewhere else that Mercedes have applied for a 10 billion euro overdraft...yet can afford F1?
F1 works for them, they get an excellent ROI via marketing in F1. Without F1, as of today, they would need an even bigger overdraft.. like many firms, they have to market to survive.

I know we laugh at the billions spent each year to get 20 cars to drive round in circles... But the truth is it's a fantastic marketing platform for those that make their investment in it work. Mercedes have made it work.
You know this 'ROI' is not real money that is quantifiable on their balance sheet, unlike the tens of millions that Daimler puts into the F1 team and HPP every year? It's what Mark Hanna would call 'fugazi'. It's even worse now that there's no F1 to promote all the cars they aren't building, and they're just a rather obvious and expensive non-core liability.
Well, two separate topics to consider here...

Firstly, marketing that works makes real money - and without marketing the entirety of F1 is unfunde. The fact it's grown as it has over the decades is proof absolute that it's 'worth it', at least potentially. Obviously many have invested and walked away with nothing.

Secondly, F1 is now so huge that the wheels falling off as they have done is indeed a major problem. I fully accept that putting 400m in to the top teams each year is a problem if in a single year there is a total lack of return, in fact a near total loss.. It looks like 2020 is that year. That doesn't in itself mean it's not worth doing the same next year however. The biggest problem now is that no one knows what next year might look like. Is it business back as normal? Or will the recently hammered world be full of consumers not flocking to buy sponsors products or paying for sports locked behind paywalls?

The size of F1 in these times frankly does appear to be unsustainable. Too many billions of investment floating around in a world that can be shut down as it has been. Personally I think before now, it made a lot of sense for Mercedes to invest, and I also think moving forwards they may feel differently, depending on their own review. If they intend to continue the business of producing cars they obviously have to market themselves and it's down to their future predictions of F1 suitability as a marketing tool as to whether they maintain the team or not. They have the figures, we don't. Therefore we shouldn't automatically assume F1 is too expensive, just because it's very expensive.


TheDeuce

5,067 posts

19 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
jsf said:
TheDeuce said:
Wow - a limpet indeed!!

What car is under that limpet shell?
That is the car.

Chaparral 2J Can Am car.

It used a 2 stroke snowmobile engine to drive the fans, which often failed mid race.
AHH thanks.

Did the driver know when the fans had failed ahead of time? Or did they simply find out when they next attempted to change direction at speed??

jsf

16,531 posts

189 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
AHH thanks.

Did the driver know when the fans had failed ahead of time? Or did they simply find out when they next attempted to change direction at speed??
They tended to have ignition issues which failed gradually, plus the bloody racket they made got quieter. biggrin

Eric Mc

111,102 posts

218 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
jsf said:
TheDeuce said:
AHH thanks.

Did the driver know when the fans had failed ahead of time? Or did they simply find out when they next attempted to change direction at speed??
They tended to have ignition issues which failed gradually, plus the bloody racket they made got quieter. biggrin
I've seen it running at Goodwood and it sounds distinctly weird. As well as the normal driving engine, which has the usual audible variations depending on throttle setting, the fan motors run at a constant speed - so you get two noticeable engine noises from the separate sets of engines.

Almost a decade later, F1 eventually copied the concept although they used the normal drive engine to run the fan.



Clockwork Cupcake

63,393 posts

225 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
jsf said:
That is the car.

Chaparral 2J Can Am car.
I know this car from the Gran Turismo video games.

sparta6

1,694 posts

53 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
You know this 'ROI' is not real money that is quantifiable on their balance sheet, unlike the tens of millions that Daimler puts into the F1 team and HPP every year? It's what Mark Hanna would call 'fugazi'. It's even worse now that there's no F1 to promote all the cars they aren't building, and they're just a rather obvious and expensive non-core liability.
Fugazi is the right terminology here.

Ofcourse if Mercedes F1 returns a hard cash profit from the WCC / sponsors money that's a different matter.

In terms of perceived marketing ROI, I've never purchased a Mercedes or Ferrari due to their F1 involvement. It's always purely down to the merit of each individual street car.


TheDeuce

5,067 posts

19 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Fugazi is the right terminology here.

Ofcourse if Mercedes F1 returns a hard cash profit from the WCC / sponsors money that's a different matter.

In terms of perceived marketing ROI, I've never purchased a Mercedes or Ferrari due to their F1 involvement. It's always purely down to the merit of each individual street car.
Who knows on what levels Mercedes believe it works for them, but they do believe it works for them and works extremely well. Perhaps they could view it differently as trends in car sales continue to evolve..

So long as they still believe it works, and one way or another makes them money they wouldn't otherwise be making, then it makes sense to continue it surely?

jsf

16,531 posts

189 months

Tuesday 31st March
quotequote all
It's all about brand awareness.

Look around yourself currently, most of the stuff you buy has a brand associated.

Just in front of me i have Epson, HP, Panasonic, Samsung, Ikea, Háagen-Dazs biggrin, Nike, BT..........

LaurasOtherHalf

17,057 posts

149 months

Wednesday 1st April
quotequote all

Eric Mc

111,102 posts

218 months

Wednesday 1st April
quotequote all
jsf said:
It's all about brand awareness.

Look around yourself currently, most of the stuff you buy has a brand associated.

Just in front of me i have Epson, HP, Panasonic, Samsung, Ikea, Háagen-Dazs biggrin, Nike, BT..........
Oh yes, the famous Haagen-Dazs computer mouse - works well but not in temperatures above 1 degree C - unless you work quick.

jsf

16,531 posts

189 months

Wednesday 1st April
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Oh yes, the famous Haagen-Dazs computer mouse - works well but not in temperatures above 1 degree C - unless you work quick.
Typically -3 degrees C, Ice cream is not water. biggrin

sc0tt

16,884 posts

154 months

Tuesday 7th April
quotequote all
Canada announcement this week?

Gazzab

17,955 posts

235 months

Tuesday 7th April
quotequote all
Not sure a Canada announcement makes any difference. There will be no 2020 GP’s