The Official F1 2021 silly season *contains speculation*

[swisstoni]

HustleRussell said:

Clean sheet design for next year, and budget cap. Who’s to say that the 2022 Williams won’t be a step forward.

I think George is in a Mercedes alongside Hamilton next year though.

I think Lewis realises that this is his last best chance to get to 8 WDC. The deck gets shuffled for 2022 and he’ll know as well as anyone that these streaks don’t last forever.
He could be years chasing No8 and never get there.

So he could well leave F1 at the end of the year, come what may.

[kiseca]

liner33 said:

Russell may well go to Mercedes but not sure it will happen while Lewis is still there , he won't want him as a teammate and you can bet there will be something in his contract that will allow him at least input into teammate options . Thats perhaps why LH is trying to negotiate his contract now to head things off


I think George is between a rock and a hard place and waiting for the chance of a MB drive might be harming his career.

Hamilton won't be around for much longer. Russell hasn't had an opportunity to do much yet. He hasn't even had a podium yet, they won't be worried about him challenging Hamilton and neither will Lewis himself. He's never cared who his team mate is so I don't see why he'd start caring now. When Rosberg left, Lewis didn't seem very happy about it. They didn't have lots of options when they got Bottas, but at the time he was seen as a fast driver who had some promising runs with Williams and also occasionally seemed to go to sleep in a race. There was no indication that he wasn't going to trouble Lewis for pace, and if we look at qualifying, he certainly can trouble Lewis for pace. He just can't match his level in the race itself.

So, either the team think Russell is an unknown and have no problem partnering him with Lewis, or, if they think he'll upset the applecart, that means they think he's as good as Lewis, and in that case the last thing they want to see is Russell driving a Red Bull or a Ferrari for the next 10 years, long after Hamilton has hung up his helmet. They'll put him in the car and deal with the team relationships.

[AJB88]

swisstoni said:

I think Lewis realises that this is his last best chance to get to 8 WDC. The deck gets shuffled for 2022 and he’ll know as well as anyone that these streaks don’t last forever.
He could be years chasing No8 and never get there.

So he could well leave F1 at the end of the year, come what may.

He will get his 8th this year easily as much as I dont like the guy. He might then stick around for 2022 to see if he can get a 9th or walk away.

[HighwayToHull]

Hamilton won't want Russell in the car for obvious reasons. He puts up with Bottas and will tolerate someone else on Bottas's level.

True, he made a miscalculation with Rosberg junior, he didn't think he'd beat him (and he very nearly didn't).

[paulguitar]

HighwayToHull said:

Hamilton won't want Russell in the car for obvious reasons. He puts up with Bottas and will tolerate someone else on Bottas's level.

True, he made a miscalculation with Rosberg junior, he didn't think he'd beat him (and he very nearly didn't).

I think he's happy to have anyone in the other car, as long as they play fair, which Rosberg did not. Hamilton knows he's the best driver, and by some margin.

[Sandpit Steve]

HustleRussell said:

Clean sheet design for next year, and budget cap. Who’s to say that the 2022 Williams won’t be a step forward.

I think George is in a Mercedes alongside Hamilton next year though.

That’s my thinking too, a Bottas/Russell swap, with Mercedes/Toto paying the Finn his current salary for a year to develop the new Williams.

With so little running allowed next year, and the brand new cars, experienced development drivers are going to be more important than rookies or pay drivers to those at the back of the grid.

[liner33]

paulguitar said:

I think he's happy to have anyone in the other car, as long as they play fair, which Rosberg did not. Hamilton knows he's the best driver, and by some margin.

But not necessarily the fastest. With Lewis its always about keeping his head in the right place , if he has a teammate who is out qualifying him , he tends to make mistakes. George will push him and challenge him in a way that VB doesnt , that may not be what the team wants, it certainly isnt what LH wants.

[kiseca]

paulguitar said:

HighwayToHull said:

Hamilton won't want Russell in the car for obvious reasons. He puts up with Bottas and will tolerate someone else on Bottas's level.

True, he made a miscalculation with Rosberg junior, he didn't think he'd beat him (and he very nearly didn't).

I think he's happy to have anyone in the other car, as long as they play fair, which Rosberg did not. Hamilton knows he's the best driver, and by some margin.

I agree. Hamilton has never done anything to suggest he doesn't want competition in the other car. Everything he's said says he enjoys the competition, and I'm pretty sure I've read before on PH that the team have said he has no veto on what drivers they partner him with.

Now there will be someone who will reply "of course he will say that..".... no he won't. Maybe, of course some of us would say that in his position, but we aren't hamilton, don't know Hamilton, and we don't know his contract. The little information we do have says he doesn't care who his team mate is. I've never seen anything but speculation suggesting that's not true. I've never seen any reference back to any event, action of contract signing that suggests Hamilton has influenced who his team mate is in a way that gives him an advantage. I've only ever seen Toto mentioning he'd like to avoid the management complications of another Rosberg / Hamilton clash, because it was dividing the team. Nothing in there to suggest that Hamilton was the one with the problem.

[liner33]

kiseca said:

I agree. Hamilton has never done anything to suggest he doesn't want competition in the other car. Everything he's said says he enjoys the competition, and I'm pretty sure I've read before on PH that the team have said he has no veto on what drivers they partner him with.

Now there will be someone who will reply "of course he will say that..".... no he won't. Maybe, of course some of us would say that in his position, but we aren't hamilton, don't know Hamilton, and we don't know his contract. The little information we do have says he doesn't care who his team mate is. I've never seen anything but speculation suggesting that's not true. I've never seen any reference back to any event, action of contract signing that suggests Hamilton has influenced who his team mate is in a way that gives him an advantage. I've only ever seen Toto mentioning he'd like to avoid the management complications of another Rosberg / Hamilton clash, because it was dividing the team. Nothing in there to suggest that Hamilton was the one with the problem.

It was reported that he did want to veto team mate during last years contract negotiations, (Damon Hill Tweeted such) , said contract was meant to be for two years , yet was only one . I wonder what the sticking point might be ?

[Durzel]

liner33 said:

Russell may well go to Mercedes but not sure it will happen while Lewis is still there , he won't want him as a teammate and you can bet there will be something in his contract that will allow him at least input into teammate options . Thats perhaps why LH is trying to negotiate his contract now to head things off


I think George is between a rock and a hard place and waiting for the chance of a MB drive might be harming his career.

I think it's more likely than you think. At this point Lewis has nothing to prove, so he might just relish the challenge of comparing himself to another driver. I'm sure he enjoys having the measure of Bottas, but once he's locked in the 8th championship and possibly looking at one final season - I think he'd be more accepting of a shake-up knowing that the outcome of that last season is irrelevant from a records and career point of view.

I too think George will be at Merc next year, with Bottas going to AM to replace Vettel. It's probably not a 50/50 chance, but not far off I think.

Vettel needed to be doing better than he has been to carry on. I really hoped he'd find a second wind at AM, but it doesn't seem like it was to be. Ironically, as I'm sure many would agree, the further away from the podiums he is the more affable he becomes. Perhaps that's just incidental and it's because F1 is not the centre of his life anymore, who knows. I would like to see him win one more race though, or even just a podium, before he retires.

[kiseca]

liner33 said:

paulguitar said:

I think he's happy to have anyone in the other car, as long as they play fair, which Rosberg did not. Hamilton knows he's the best driver, and by some margin.

But not necessarily the fastest. With Lewis its always about keeping his head in the right place , if he has a teammate who is out qualifying him , he tends to make mistakes. George will push him and challenge him in a way that VB doesnt , that may not be what the team wants, it certainly isnt what LH wants.

I agree the team want to keep Hamilton's head in the right place. I disagree that means not putting him under pressure. He seems to raise his game when he's up against it. He cruised to his second Merc title against a Rosberg who in 2015 looked like he'd been broken. Once the title was sewn up, Lewis took his foot off the gas, Rosberg sweeped up the remaining wins of the year and carried that momentum into 2016. He got the jump on Hamilton at the start. Lewis then upped his game, took the fight down to the wire, didn't make it. When he heard about Rosberg leaving, to me his reaction was that of someone disappointed that he won't get the chance get the title back from him the next year.

I completely disagree with your comment "it certainly isn't what LH wants.". That is very far from certain. I think it's more likely it's what the team wants, and as someone said, the problem wasn't necessarily that Nico was taking wins from Lewis, it was that Nico stopped playing fair (and quite probably felt the same about Lewis after being run off the circuit a few times when he was trying to pass him). So instead of being two people fighting for championships, as they had for years, it became two people disliking eachother because they thought the other guy had crossed the line.

[kiseca]

liner33 said:

kiseca said:

I agree. Hamilton has never done anything to suggest he doesn't want competition in the other car. Everything he's said says he enjoys the competition, and I'm pretty sure I've read before on PH that the team have said he has no veto on what drivers they partner him with.

Now there will be someone who will reply "of course he will say that..".... no he won't. Maybe, of course some of us would say that in his position, but we aren't hamilton, don't know Hamilton, and we don't know his contract. The little information we do have says he doesn't care who his team mate is. I've never seen anything but speculation suggesting that's not true. I've never seen any reference back to any event, action of contract signing that suggests Hamilton has influenced who his team mate is in a way that gives him an advantage. I've only ever seen Toto mentioning he'd like to avoid the management complications of another Rosberg / Hamilton clash, because it was dividing the team. Nothing in there to suggest that Hamilton was the one with the problem.

It was reported that he did want to veto team mate during last years contract negotiations, (Damon Hill Tweeted such) , said contract was meant to be for two years , yet was only one . I wonder what the sticking point might be ?

Was it? I hadn't seen such reports but I trust Damon. Fair point.

[trackdemon]

I'm constantly surprised at the wealth of knowledge here; I mean, if I want to know exactly what Lewis Hamilton thinks, what his contract is, who he has veto over, when he's retiring.... there's plenty folks here who know apparently as absolute fact all of these things

[swisstoni]

trackdemon said:

I'm constantly surprised at the wealth of knowledge here; I mean, if I want to know exactly what Lewis Hamilton thinks, what his contract is, who he has veto over, when he's retiring.... there's plenty folks here who know apparently as absolute fact all of these things

It’s only people talking about what might happen. Nobody is claiming inside knowledge.

Anyway, you’re meant to write FACT! if you really want to show you know something.

[ajprice]

swisstoni said:

trackdemon said:

I'm constantly surprised at the wealth of knowledge here; I mean, if I want to know exactly what Lewis Hamilton thinks, what his contract is, who he has veto over, when he's retiring.... there's plenty folks here who know apparently as absolute fact all of these things

It’s only people talking about what might happen. Nobody is claiming inside knowledge.

Anyway, you’re meant to write FACT! if you really want to show you know something.

[MustangGT]

kiseca said:

liner33 said:

kiseca said:

I agree. Hamilton has never done anything to suggest he doesn't want competition in the other car. Everything he's said says he enjoys the competition, and I'm pretty sure I've read before on PH that the team have said he has no veto on what drivers they partner him with.

Now there will be someone who will reply "of course he will say that..".... no he won't. Maybe, of course some of us would say that in his position, but we aren't hamilton, don't know Hamilton, and we don't know his contract. The little information we do have says he doesn't care who his team mate is. I've never seen anything but speculation suggesting that's not true. I've never seen any reference back to any event, action of contract signing that suggests Hamilton has influenced who his team mate is in a way that gives him an advantage. I've only ever seen Toto mentioning he'd like to avoid the management complications of another Rosberg / Hamilton clash, because it was dividing the team. Nothing in there to suggest that Hamilton was the one with the problem.

It was reported that he did want to veto team mate during last years contract negotiations, (Damon Hill Tweeted such) , said contract was meant to be for two years , yet was only one . I wonder what the sticking point might be ?

Was it? I hadn't seen such reports but I trust Damon. Fair point.

Hang on guys, how on earth would Damon have any knowledge of contract details, he is a totally unconnected party?

I agree with Kiseca's original comment, Lewis has always said he wants competition and does not care who is in the other seat.

[ch37]

MustangGT said:

Hang on guys, how on earth would Damon have any knowledge of contract details, he is a totally unconnected party?

I agree with Kiseca's original comment, Lewis has always said he wants competition and does not care who is in the other seat.

Also the 'inside gossip' that suggested Hamilton had no desire or buzz for this season a little while back. Guess what? The guy clearly looks like he's having the time of his life. He's always said he wants a proper battle with the new guys coming through, he's clearly loving not having it all his own way.

[kiseca]

MustangGT said:

kiseca said:

liner33 said:

kiseca said:

I agree. Hamilton has never done anything to suggest he doesn't want competition in the other car. Everything he's said says he enjoys the competition, and I'm pretty sure I've read before on PH that the team have said he has no veto on what drivers they partner him with.

Now there will be someone who will reply "of course he will say that..".... no he won't. Maybe, of course some of us would say that in his position, but we aren't hamilton, don't know Hamilton, and we don't know his contract. The little information we do have says he doesn't care who his team mate is. I've never seen anything but speculation suggesting that's not true. I've never seen any reference back to any event, action of contract signing that suggests Hamilton has influenced who his team mate is in a way that gives him an advantage. I've only ever seen Toto mentioning he'd like to avoid the management complications of another Rosberg / Hamilton clash, because it was dividing the team. Nothing in there to suggest that Hamilton was the one with the problem.

It was reported that he did want to veto team mate during last years contract negotiations, (Damon Hill Tweeted such) , said contract was meant to be for two years , yet was only one . I wonder what the sticking point might be ?

Was it? I hadn't seen such reports but I trust Damon. Fair point.

Hang on guys, how on earth would Damon have any knowledge of contract details, he is a totally unconnected party?

I agree with Kiseca's original comment, Lewis has always said he wants competition and does not care who is in the other seat.

I mentioned earlier that everything I hear from Lewis or Merc is that lewis doesn't care who his team mate is, and from those saying he does care, I never hear anything to back that up other than the assumption he wants to win and he's happy to pull a Senna or Schumacher to do so. If Damon has tweeted a desire to veto though, I take that as an opinion from a reliable source. Might be wrong, it might just be speculation on Damon's part, but there could be something behind it. So it opens my mind a little on the subject, makes me a little less skeptical.

In addition, I genuinely do think he didn't care, particularly around 2016 when replacing Rosberg. However, for 2020, he hasn't said any different but this year, with a possible title number 8 on the cards, he may well have found the idea of using his influence to remove a challenge from his team mate more appealing, and retrospectively knowing he's got a tough challenge from Max, he's probably quite happy he's not in a three way battle.

Overall, I still think he still cares less than most champions to a team mate challenge, but I still think he won't try block George from the team in 2022.

[SpudLink]

ch37 said:

MustangGT said:

Hang on guys, how on earth would Damon have any knowledge of contract details, he is a totally unconnected party?

I agree with Kiseca's original comment, Lewis has always said he wants competition and does not care who is in the other seat.

Also the 'inside gossip' that suggested Hamilton had no desire or buzz for this season a little while back. Guess what? The guy clearly looks like he's having the time of his life. He's always said he wants a proper battle with the new guys coming through, he's clearly loving not having it all his own way.

It does seem like the fight with Verstappen has given him a renewed enthusiasm.

[liner33]

MustangGT said:

Hang on guys, how on earth would Damon have any knowledge of contract details, he is a totally unconnected party?

I agree with Kiseca's original comment, Lewis has always said he wants competition and does not care who is in the other seat.

Yes you are right there is no way that Damon would know anyone in F1 at a high level.

Whilst gossip is gossip I don't think DH would have tweeted such if he wasn't pretty certain of his facts .