The Official F1 2021 silly season *contains speculation*

The Official F1 2021 silly season *contains speculation*

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Discussion

LaurasOtherHalf

18,157 posts

154 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
TheInternet said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Mercedes must be laughing.
Will Ferrari have the best driver line up on the grid though?

(There's something to get you teeth into.)
I think that's quite difficult to say, I don't think anyone's had a "best" driver line up since VER and RIC. Depends on what you count as best however, The HAM/BOT pairing certainly gets results.

ajprice

Original Poster:

18,839 posts

154 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
TheInternet said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Mercedes must be laughing.
Will Ferrari have the best driver line up on the grid though?

(There's something to get you teeth into.)
I read somewhere that with Leclerc being 22 and Sainz 25 it's the youngest Ferrari line up for 50 years.

ELUSIVEJIM

7,911 posts

109 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
TheInternet said:
Will Ferrari have the best driver line up on the grid though?

(There's something to get you teeth into.)
Ferrari could have had the best drivers line up on the grid but they decided to sign Sainz biggrin

neverlifted

3,471 posts

203 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I think that's quite difficult to say, I don't think anyone's had a "best" driver line up since VER and RIC. Depends on what you count as best however, The HAM/BOT pairing certainly gets results.
Agreed. Hamilton and Vettel at Merc would be best and fantastic to watch.

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
neverlifted said:
Agreed. Hamilton and Vettel at Merc would be best and fantastic to watch.
Worst, but yes fantastic to watch biggrin

Muzzer79

3,790 posts

145 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
I am completely baffled by what has happened today.

Ferrari should have signed Ricciardo and not Sainz. I can only think Ferrari want to make sure they have a clear number 1 and 2 driver as 2019 didn't work with LeClerc and Vettel.

Ricciardo joining McLaren as well is fantastic for McLaren but another stupid move by Ricciardo.

Mercedes must be laughing.
Don't forget that Ricciardo is 30. Granted, he has some years left in him, but Sainz has more (He's 26)

Ferrari don't want someone troubling LeClerc - he's the chosen man.

I'd actually be a little worried if I were Mercedes. Who's replacing Hamilton?

George Russell looks promising but is unproven. Ocon has been released to Renault.

Seems like RB have Verstappen and Ferrari have LeClerc and these two will be the main men.

vaud

37,698 posts

113 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Don't forget that Ricciardo is 30. Granted, he has some years left in him, but Sainz has more (He's 26)

Ferrari don't want someone troubling LeClerc - he's the chosen man.

I'd actually be a little worried if I were Mercedes. Who's replacing Hamilton?

George Russell looks promising but is unproven. Ocon has been released to Renault.

Seems like RB have Verstappen and Ferrari have LeClerc and these two will be the main men.
Ocon can go back, he was only released as they couldn't give him a Merc seat.

kambites

60,091 posts

179 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
I'd actually be a little worried if I were Mercedes. Who's replacing Hamilton?
If Hamilton were to decide to retire at the end of this year, I guess they could take Vettel as a stop-gap. hehe

Not very likely though.

HustleRussell

18,472 posts

118 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
HustleRussell said:
leef44 said:
I think Renault would feel that DR was not a waste of money. They needed his experience to steer them back on track with the car set up. They've gained much experience and knowledge last season from having him there but engine/power unit issues let them down most the time.
Maybe. Personally I think Renault and Ricciardo were supposed to be mutually in it for the journey- witness Abiteboul now criticising Ricciardo's supposed lack of loyalty.
Renault were apparently on a good trajectory, and certainly no reason to think DR wasn't convinced by the possibility that could continue.

I doubt this has anything to do with loyalty and everything to do with common sense and reality on DR's part. McLaren has done a better job with the chassis than Renault and they will soon have a better PU, which even if it's an awkward transition year one, will offer greater potential going forwards.

What potential does Renault have to improve? As a team they're in a tough spot when it comes to making any significant investment ahead of cost caps. Their PU is similarly unlikely to see a leap forward in terms of reliability as reliability is very expensive, and they don't even have any customers anymore.

McLaren have managed better with their limited resources than Renault have. And McLaren have done the one thing that Renault couldn't do, move away from the Renault PU! Christ knows DR has already lived with Renault PU for long enough already..
I don't think Ricciardo is convinced that Renault are on a good trajectory. He looked frustrated at times and was trying to make the car do things it couldn't. Technically, on 2018/19 form, a move to McLaren is a sideways step or only a marginal upgrade. If he was confident in the direction of Renault he'd surely back a works team with front running aspirations over a privateer.

Whatever Renault was doing, it wasn't doing it fast enough for Ricciardo- and Abiteboul is now left throwing shade.

Post-Ron McLaren Racing is very much an unproven entity, very much a different animal from what it was last time it won anything- and Renault have been saying that the new regs will be their breakthrough moment for years.

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
TheDeuce said:
HustleRussell said:
leef44 said:
I think Renault would feel that DR was not a waste of money. They needed his experience to steer them back on track with the car set up. They've gained much experience and knowledge last season from having him there but engine/power unit issues let them down most the time.
Maybe. Personally I think Renault and Ricciardo were supposed to be mutually in it for the journey- witness Abiteboul now criticising Ricciardo's supposed lack of loyalty.
Renault were apparently on a good trajectory, and certainly no reason to think DR wasn't convinced by the possibility that could continue.

I doubt this has anything to do with loyalty and everything to do with common sense and reality on DR's part. McLaren has done a better job with the chassis than Renault and they will soon have a better PU, which even if it's an awkward transition year one, will offer greater potential going forwards.

What potential does Renault have to improve? As a team they're in a tough spot when it comes to making any significant investment ahead of cost caps. Their PU is similarly unlikely to see a leap forward in terms of reliability as reliability is very expensive, and they don't even have any customers anymore.

McLaren have managed better with their limited resources than Renault have. And McLaren have done the one thing that Renault couldn't do, move away from the Renault PU! Christ knows DR has already lived with Renault PU for long enough already..
I don't think Ricciardo is convinced that Renault are on a good trajectory. He looked frustrated at times and was trying to make the car do things it couldn't. Technically, on 2018/19 form, a move to McLaren is a sideways step or only a marginal upgrade. If he was confident in the direction of Renault he'd surely back a works team with front running aspirations over a privateer.

Whatever Renault was doing, it wasn't doing it fast enough for Ricciardo- and Abiteboul is now left throwing shade.

Post-Ron McLaren Racing is very much an unproven entity, very much a different animal from what it was last time it won anything- and Renault have been saying that the new regs will be their breakthrough moment for years.
I agree with you - I meant they 'were' on an apparently good trajectory when he made his decision to leave RB. Then the following year, I'm sure he quickly realised they were no longer progressing as they had been - in fact compared to their direct competitors they were slipping back.

Whatever happens to McLaren, Renault are stuck with a PU that holds them back to a degree (on the basis that little in F1 holds a driver back more than a DNF). That is a problem that Renault can't solve without spending a lot more on refining their PU. They can't jump ship and buy in another unit.

Plus the increasing financial uncertainty behind the scenes of Renault F1.. All in all the future potential and even existence of Renault F1 is hard to have very much confidence in at present.

As for the new regs - they have indeed been saying that will be their saving and it's when all their work will pay off. If so, fair play. The entire landscape by that point is going to have changed though, almost any team could become surprise winners for a year or two when the regs change as much as is planned.

BricktopST205

628 posts

92 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
This is Sainz Jr's moment to really show if he has what it takes to match his father El Matador who is one of the greatest rally drivers to have ever lived.


janesmith1950

8,448 posts

53 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
I'm not convinced Renault will be competing in F1 next year.

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
janesmith1950 said:
I'm not convinced Renault will be competing in F1 next year.
It's most certainly no longer a given. The foundations of that whole project are shifting beneath it.

DanielSan

15,420 posts

125 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
It's most certainly no longer a given. The foundations of that whole project are shifting beneath it.
It's more likely they'll be there now they've just freed up $25million...

EDLT

15,269 posts

164 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
Is it too late to say Hamilton to Ferrari?

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
DanielSan said:
TheDeuce said:
It's most certainly no longer a given. The foundations of that whole project are shifting beneath it.
It's more likely they'll be there now they've just freed up $25million...
You don't think they'll be bringing another driver in if they're to remain?

But sure, probably won't cost as much as DR. I'm not sure $25m is enough to rescue the perception of those paying for the Renault team however..

Time will tell, and the current economic crisis is likely to speed time up.

LaurasOtherHalf

18,157 posts

154 months

Thursday 14th May
quotequote all
F1 has freed them up to leave now they won’t be selling anyone short by ditching their engines.

Enstone might survive however.

Hub

5,057 posts

156 months

Friday 15th May
quotequote all
EDLT said:
Is it too late to say Hamilton to Ferrari?
Yes, but the downtime could make him think. The momentum of the constant title challenges and need to be the best is lost..

Otispunkmeyer

10,526 posts

113 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
ajprice said:
Just saw that too https://www.essentiallysports.com/f1-news-ferrari-...

A. If this is all true about Sainz and DR deals being done, and B. If Seb doesn't go home after this year, does he fill the gap at Renault? Technically they're a works team but Red Bull and now McLaren have shown them the way with their own engines. If Vettel does go to Renault, they need to get their st together, and I can't see that happening soon.
Renault remaining in F1 isn't much more certain than Vettel remaining in F1 either... Especially not if they intended to match Ferrari's already 'too low to take' offer for Vettels services. All in all Vettel to Renault seems both unlikely from his perspective, and also not particularly logical for Renault - who must be under intense pressure to solve their engine issues and build a more competitive car ahead of willy waving by signing another top price driver.

Although in these crazy times I would stop short of ruling anything out altogether.
I had a thought that Russell could go to Renault even if it was only for a session before they bow out entirely for being mediocre.

Williams are a lost cause for me. When his peers like Norris, Albon and Le Clerc are all getting on with the top seats, it must be galling for him to be driving around at the back in a mobile chicane. I'd be looking for anyway out if it was me.

TheDeuce

7,293 posts

24 months

Saturday 16th May
quotequote all
Otispunkmeyer said:
I had a thought that Russell could go to Renault even if it was only for a session before they bow out entirely for being mediocre.

Williams are a lost cause for me. When his peers like Norris, Albon and Le Clerc are all getting on with the top seats, it must be galling for him to be driving around at the back in a mobile chicane. I'd be looking for anyway out if it was me.
I've always wondered how good other teams are at analysing a drivers performance even if they're stuck in poorly performing car. Obviously we argue on here that x driver in x car could beat driver y in the same car and so on... But I wonder how accurate such predictions can be with enough data and analysis carried out? My suggestion being that from a career point of view, perhaps Russell being stuck in a crap car isn't the handicap we might expect - others could be seeing his potential still. Who knows though!? Just a wondering I have..

I'd like to see him in a faster car for sure, and he does deserve it. His testing n the W10 last year went very well, he's certainly above average on the grid.