The Official F1 2021 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
Gtom said:
jsf said:
Based on previous drivers I would expect Mercedes are paying Georges wages with Williams having a payment compensation clause if they take him early.
Is that what it was like with Pascal Werhlein?He was touted as being the next big Mercedes star, never happened though.
Paul_M3 said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Paul_M3 said:
It’s not ‘racing’ though, is it?
It’s just entertainment for those who like seeing somebody who doesn’t deserve to win get a trophy.
It's always been part of racing. Jim Clark would be much more highly decorated if his Loti/engine were not made from cheese.It’s just entertainment for those who like seeing somebody who doesn’t deserve to win get a trophy.
If mechanical breakdowns were exciting, then the hybrid era must have had a few classic seasons so far.
Exige77 said:
Exactly this.
We as watchers want to be entertained.
Mercedes as a business want to win titles.
A winner and someone fending of the others is what they need as a business. No benefit in having two drivers tripping over each other.
Hamilton and Botas do have a go from time to time but have both kept it very clean.
Sure Mercedes want to keep Russel up to speed and ready for when they need him at some time in the future.
Mercedes seemed happy to keep Rosberg. Everything they've said suggests that Rosberg created more problems for them than he solved when he retired.We as watchers want to be entertained.
Mercedes as a business want to win titles.
A winner and someone fending of the others is what they need as a business. No benefit in having two drivers tripping over each other.
Hamilton and Botas do have a go from time to time but have both kept it very clean.
Sure Mercedes want to keep Russel up to speed and ready for when they need him at some time in the future.
I think too many are assuming that Mercedes don't want someone as fast as Lewis. I think that's incorrect. They don't want two drivers who clash, and I'll agree that having two drivers closely matched on pace does increase that chance, but what Mercedes want to avoid is a toxic atmosphere in the team, and possibly the situation where one driver burns himself out and leaves them in the lurch at the end of a season again.
If there's someone as fast as, or worse, faster than Lewis on the grid, you can bet Mercedes would rather have them in their car than in a competitor's car. They have a bit of a cushion at the moment because there is no car as quick, but when Red Bull, Ferrari or someone else do get on the pace, I'll bet that driver relationships aren't going to be top of their priorities.
kiseca said:
Mercedes seemed happy to keep Rosberg. Everything they've said suggests that Rosberg created more problems for them than he solved when he retired.
I think too many are assuming that Mercedes don't want someone as fast as Lewis. I think that's incorrect. They don't want two drivers who clash, and I'll agree that having two drivers closely matched on pace does increase that chance, but what Mercedes want to avoid is a toxic atmosphere in the team, and possibly the situation where one driver burns himself out and leaves them in the lurch at the end of a season again.
If there's someone as fast as, or worse, faster than Lewis on the grid, you can bet Mercedes would rather have them in their car than in a competitor's car. They have a bit of a cushion at the moment because there is no car as quick, but when Red Bull, Ferrari or someone else do get on the pace, I'll bet that driver relationships aren't going to be top of their priorities.
I'm sure problems were caused by Rosbergs surprise departure. Also a winning team with two WDC's is valuable in various ways commercially of course. So I have no issue believing they were disappointed when he left - and at the time it would have been a bit of headache deciding who should fill the seat and what they dynamic would be like...I think too many are assuming that Mercedes don't want someone as fast as Lewis. I think that's incorrect. They don't want two drivers who clash, and I'll agree that having two drivers closely matched on pace does increase that chance, but what Mercedes want to avoid is a toxic atmosphere in the team, and possibly the situation where one driver burns himself out and leaves them in the lurch at the end of a season again.
If there's someone as fast as, or worse, faster than Lewis on the grid, you can bet Mercedes would rather have them in their car than in a competitor's car. They have a bit of a cushion at the moment because there is no car as quick, but when Red Bull, Ferrari or someone else do get on the pace, I'll bet that driver relationships aren't going to be top of their priorities.
However, there is no denying that in the end Bottas has worked out perfectly. He's blistering quick in quali, as is lewis, so both cars generally start at the front and effectively out of danger pretty much. They then behave impeccably if they end up wheel to wheel at the first corner. This is a TP's dream! Best of all year after year they re-release a new version of Bottas that is destined to actually be the same old Bottas - able and willing to do exactly what they need without complaint seemingly indefinitely.
Most staggering of all, they don't just 'get on', they appear to be respectful and friendly as team mates, entirely at ease with one another in fact.
TheDeuce said:
I'm sure problems were caused by Rosbergs surprise departure. Also a winning team with two WDC's is valuable in various ways commercially of course. So I have no issue believing they were disappointed when he left - and at the time it would have been a bit of headache deciding who should fill the seat and what they dynamic would be like...
However, there is no denying that in the end Bottas has worked out perfectly. He's blistering quick in quali, as is lewis, so both cars generally start at the front and effectively out of danger pretty much. They then behave impeccably if they end up wheel to wheel at the first corner. This is a TP's dream! Best of all year after year they re-release a new version of Bottas that is destined to actually be the same old Bottas - able and willing to do exactly what they need without complaint seemingly indefinitely.
Most staggering of all, they don't just 'get on', they appear to be respectful and friendly as team mates, entirely at ease with one another in fact.
I'd agree almost, with the only blot on Bottas's record being he didn't collect 2nd in the championship in his first two years. Indeed, while Ferrari were strong challengers, there was a lot of speculation around the Mercedes camp about his future, and then came Bottas V2 and all that stuff.However, there is no denying that in the end Bottas has worked out perfectly. He's blistering quick in quali, as is lewis, so both cars generally start at the front and effectively out of danger pretty much. They then behave impeccably if they end up wheel to wheel at the first corner. This is a TP's dream! Best of all year after year they re-release a new version of Bottas that is destined to actually be the same old Bottas - able and willing to do exactly what they need without complaint seemingly indefinitely.
Most staggering of all, they don't just 'get on', they appear to be respectful and friendly as team mates, entirely at ease with one another in fact.
What I take from that is that, when the competition is strong, they want two cars up front, not just one.
MiniMan64 said:
faa77 said:
Any truth in this Gasly to Renault?
And Hulk to RBR?
Hulk maybe but I thought Ocon was a lock in?And Hulk to RBR?
He does indeed have a second year at Renault in his contract, but they can break that contract for relatively little £££ I suspect. He's only on a few million a year anyway. If RBR needed the move to happen they could pay such costs to see it all through.
I'm not sure there is anything to the gasly>Renault rumour though. But I do see hulk to RB as likely, purely because it makes a great deal of sense - he's their best option that I can see, and they have the opportunity to test his performance next year without it affecting their WCC position either way (because whatever their second driver achieves, they're highly likely to end up 2nd in WCC regardless).
MiniMan64 said:
faa77 said:
Any truth in this Gasly to Renault?
And Hulk to RBR?
Hulk maybe but I thought Ocon was a lock in?And Hulk to RBR?
TheDeuce said:
He does indeed have a second year at Renault in his contract, but they can break that contract for relatively little £££ I suspect. He's only on a few million a year anyway. If RBR needed the move to happen they could pay such costs to see it all through.
Did you mean Renault, not RBR? Presume soHustleRussell said:
It’s obviously happened throughout the ages that promising drivers don’t convert their apparent potential or especially don’t score the right opportunities. However the drivers don’t just arrive in F1- the feeder series give a good indication. Russell in particular stands out here having consecutively won the GP3 and F2 championships first time of asking.
But somewhat weirdly, the general suggestion seems to be that he is too fast for a decent F1 seat (Mercedes), and therefore could end up with none at all?! That's a new low for F1 if that ends up being the case, I understand pay drivers, some talented folk never getting a chance etc etc etc, but if the rug is pulled from under Russell at this point that's a huge kick in the teeth considering some drivers on the grid next season.Come to F1, out-qualifying your team-mates 32-0, lose your seat to a guy often half a second behind you in quali and a guy who bought a seat with Mexican telecommunications money.
faa77 said:
TheDeuce said:
He does indeed have a second year at Renault in his contract, but they can break that contract for relatively little £££ I suspect. He's only on a few million a year anyway. If RBR needed the move to happen they could pay such costs to see it all through.
Did you mean Renault, not RBR? Presume soMissChief said:
Gtom said:
jsf said:
Based on previous drivers I would expect Mercedes are paying Georges wages with Williams having a payment compensation clause if they take him early.
Is that what it was like with Pascal Werhlein?He was touted as being the next big Mercedes star, never happened though.
MiniMan64 said:
Hulk maybe but I thought Ocon was a lock in?
Cyril has come out and said that Ocon's performance isn't a disaster, which probably means that internally they think it is a disaster.https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/abiteboul-ocon-...
ch37 said:
HustleRussell said:
It’s obviously happened throughout the ages that promising drivers don’t convert their apparent potential or especially don’t score the right opportunities. However the drivers don’t just arrive in F1- the feeder series give a good indication. Russell in particular stands out here having consecutively won the GP3 and F2 championships first time of asking.
But somewhat weirdly, the general suggestion seems to be that he is too fast for a decent F1 seat (Mercedes), and therefore could end up with none at all?! That's a new low for F1 if that ends up being the case, I understand pay drivers, some talented folk never getting a chance etc etc etc, but if the rug is pulled from under Russell at this point that's a huge kick in the teeth considering some drivers on the grid next season.Come to F1, out-qualifying your team-mates 32-0, lose your seat to a guy often half a second behind you in quali and a guy who bought a seat with Mexican telecommunications money.
honestly if you're british and have a plummy accent you do alright round these parts!Like a lot, he's had a great career in the junior formula but that path is littered with so many next big things with not a grand prix to their name.
He's on his second full season and still making school boy errors, just like Albon. At least Norris is let down more by his car than his driving, even if he doesn't look particularly fast-he's going to get eaten alive next season alongside Riciardo if the McLaren is anything like half decent.
In fact, I'd say if you put any of the next gen Brits alongside someone special they'd have their arses handed to them on a plate. Hamilton, Verstappen, Le Clerc, Riciardo, they're all going to make any team mate look a bit ordinary if I'm honest.
The interesting thing is going to be seeing which of the younger drivers is going to be able to make the step up to join that level. Of the Brits I'd say Russel has the best chance from what I've seen but you have to ask yourself if someone's so special why aren't they in a top car.
Le Clerc, Verstappen, Riciardo all made the jump.
He's not 'too fast' for a Merc seat - as said above, we don't even know how fast he could be in a top car in anycase.
Bottas just happens to be the perfect fit on various levels. Mainly he qualifies very well so the two mercs are mostly on the front row - from that point on they're more often than not going to 1-2 which wraps up the championship very nicely. It's also worked out well that during the actual race he simply hasn't got Lewis's instinct or attack level. That's extremely good for Mercedes as they'd far rather have one record breaking driver than two that both win WDC's. It' smore impressive if it's all one driver racking em up, and when Lewis has the WDC all time record, it will forever be 'at Mercedes' that he did it.
If Bottas were to eventually get bored of the inevitable and clear off, they probably would put George in the car - he's certainly good enough to not embarrass them and he's on the programme for a reason. Until that point, honestly, why would they change what is working so well?
Bottas just happens to be the perfect fit on various levels. Mainly he qualifies very well so the two mercs are mostly on the front row - from that point on they're more often than not going to 1-2 which wraps up the championship very nicely. It's also worked out well that during the actual race he simply hasn't got Lewis's instinct or attack level. That's extremely good for Mercedes as they'd far rather have one record breaking driver than two that both win WDC's. It' smore impressive if it's all one driver racking em up, and when Lewis has the WDC all time record, it will forever be 'at Mercedes' that he did it.
If Bottas were to eventually get bored of the inevitable and clear off, they probably would put George in the car - he's certainly good enough to not embarrass them and he's on the programme for a reason. Until that point, honestly, why would they change what is working so well?
TheDeuce said:
Until that point, honestly, why would they change what is working so well?
I think the answer to that, is that they'd change if they fear losing Hamilton and being left without a genuinely top-class driver. I don't think moving a young driver like Russell into Mercedes and expecting them to fight for the WDC in their first season would be sensible so realistically they're going to want to decide who their future lies with in time to bring them into Mercedes at least a year before Hamilton leaves.Or of course they might decide that Bottas is good enough to lead the team for a season or two while a young team mate finds his feet...
kambites said:
TheDeuce said:
Until that point, honestly, why would they change what is working so well?
I think the answer to that, is that they'd change if they fear losing Hamilton and being left without a genuinely top-class driver. I don't think moving a young driver like Russell into Mercedes and expecting them to fight for the WDC in their first season would be sensible so realistically they're going to want to decide who their future lies with in time to bring them into Mercedes at least a year before Hamilton leaves.Or of course they might decide that Bottas is good enough to lead the team for a season or two while a young team mate finds his feet...
Also very hard to see Lewis not sign and remain at the team for next year at least. He will never get the same opportunity to rack up as many consecutive WDC's again. He's done 90% of the job in terms of smashing all the major records.
kambites said:
I don't think moving a young driver like Russell into Mercedes and expecting them to fight for the WDC in their first season would be sensible
Why not? Hamilton did it and he had Alonso as team mate. I would back George against Bottas any day of the week in the same car.Same went with Le Clerk, he would have spanked Seb earlier without Ferrari clipping his wings, they had to give up doing that eventually.
Give these talented young kids the right car and they can beat the more established drivers now the cars are so data driven.
jsf said:
kambites said:
I don't think moving a young driver like Russell into Mercedes and expecting them to fight for the WDC in their first season would be sensible
Why not? Hamilton did it and he had Alonso as team mate. I would back George against Bottas any day of the week in the same car.Same went with Le Clerk, he would have spanked Seb earlier without Ferrari clipping his wings, they had to give up doing that eventually.
Give these talented young kids the right car and they can beat the more established drivers now the cars are so data driven.
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