What did Bernie say to prompt F1 statement!

What did Bernie say to prompt F1 statement!

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Sixpackpert

Original Poster:

4,067 posts

169 months

Friday 26th June
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Haven’t seen anything about what Bernie has said. Anyone know more?


Dr Jekyll

19,704 posts

216 months

Friday 26th June
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Sixpackpert said:
Haven’t seen anything about what Bernie has said. Anyone know more?

He said something like 'in some cases black people are more racist than white people'. Naturally the first few words have been ignored.

SAS Tom

2,768 posts

129 months

Friday 26th June
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As I understand it, he said that some black people are more racist than some white people.

Sixpackpert

Original Poster:

4,067 posts

169 months

Friday 26th June
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
He said something like 'in some cases black people are more racist than white people'. Naturally the first few words have been ignored.
Ta.

ETA: After reading the Daily Wail article below...I see what you mean about the dropping of 'in some cases'.

Edited by Sixpackpert on Friday 26th June 19:11

TheDeuce

5,468 posts

21 months

Friday 26th June
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There appears to be four ways to handle this movement:

1) join it = ok.

2) Ignore if = labelled as unsympathetic/potential racist (!?)

3) Say something intelligent about it - same result as above ^^^^

4) Say all lives matter = you're guilty of everything.

It's fair to say that a guy of Bernie's vintage years was never equipped to get through this one unscathed. He has a lot of personal faults and limitations, all of which he admits endlessly. It seems self protective and frankly opportunist for Liberty to take his comments and use them as way to show their own support. I get it... It's just wise PR on their front... But it's about as far away from sincere as you can get. Bernie is massively out of date, but ultimately far more sincere than Liberty in this instance.

I have no comment to make on the movement itself, because of reasons 1,2,3 & 4...

EDIT: I have spent a few more moments thinking about what Liberty have done here, and it's really bothering me. They have reacted to the misquoted words of an elderly man as if it was was a statement they had no option to respond too. Respect the elderly isn't just a nice idea, it's a requirement because of course sentiments change across generations - it's therefore poor form to judge the thoughts of a generation several generations detached from the present at the best of times. It's extreme poor form to make that sort of judgement based upon incomplete quotes. I've been an ardent supporter of Liberty so far, they have done well at delivering the sport to a new audience. In this instance however, they have pandered to the current generation in the simplest and weakest of ways. They have done that at the expense of Bernie who I doubt very much ever had a racist thought in his head when he made his comment. He was simply seeking the logic in the debate. I'm disappointed Liberty!

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 26th June 23:56

bolidemichael

3,132 posts

156 months

Friday 26th June
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Good response. The other option is that Bernie never yanks the tail of the press without reason... and the reason is usually in the opposite direction.

TheDeuce

5,468 posts

21 months

Saturday 27th June
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bolidemichael said:
Good response. The other option is that Bernie never yanks the tail of the press without reason... and the reason is usually in the opposite direction.
True often but not always. I can easily imagine he was simply bemused by this whole thing (he's spent a lifetime globe trotting and working with people of whatever background or race, those that perform remain - that is F1) and just wanted to say something he felt was intelligent as a comment. Dangerous thing being an independent thinker these days! Far simpler to just go along with whatever sentiment is expressed via twitter masses wink

Whatever... He's been slighted, he won't ever get fair consideration, Liberty took a shot at him to elevate themselves. let's not kid ourselves about that.

rdjohn

4,207 posts

150 months

Saturday 27th June
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My mother in-law was a little older than Bernie is. She was a quietly spoken and mild-mannered person who would never openly say something that she knew to be offensive.

However she floored us one day when recovering in hospital, as her surgeon had called to see how she was getting on. She actually said that “..he seemed very nice, for a black person.”

I suppose that we could have lectured her on what she had actually said, but decided it was pointless. It is just something that will eventually die out.

On the other hand, there seems to be plenty of younger people with openly racist views. The Government has already taken measures to stamp-out racism. I am not sure how frequently the laws are enforced. It seems that further measures could be taken to reduce institutional racism in, say, the Police etc.

And yet, it still thrives and I don’t think tearing down statues and protest movements will ever eradicate it. Indeed, it may actually run the risk of enflaming it.

Dr Jekyll

19,704 posts

216 months

Saturday 27th June
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An elderly relative told me about the reaction in part of (IIRC) Yorkshire during WW2 when a lot of American servicemen suddenly arrived in an area that had hardly seen anyone black before. Apparently there was a standing joke of 'We like the Americans, but we're not so keen on the white blokes they brought with them.'

C Lee Farquar

3,075 posts

171 months

Saturday 27th June
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TheDeuce said:
He was simply seeking the logic in the debate. I'm disappointed Liberty!
Quite, Liberty claim it's a time for unity but history tells you that you need full and frank discussions to achieve unity, you don't get prolonged unity by sweeping issues under the carpet.

Antiquated or otherwise, I'm struggling to think of many people who've dealt with more Countries and races (in the ethnic sense) over as many decades as Bernie has.



sandman77

1,628 posts

93 months

Saturday 27th June
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Bernie said some pretty stupid things in that interview including his view that he was surprised that Hamilton was offended by Spanish fans who wore black face paint and wore t-shirts reading “Hamilton’s family”. BE is way out of date in his views. What are Liberty supposed to do here? Like it or not BE is, and always will be associated with F1 and Liberty need to protect their product. The best way to do this following the comments, and how they have been reported is, to distance themselves as much as possible from Bernie.
If you think about it further, why is Bernie even being interviewed on this subject? Possibly because the papers know he will say something stupid which will produce a nice click bait headline.
As far as I’m concerned Liberty have done the right thing here.

TheDeuce

5,468 posts

21 months

Saturday 27th June
quotequote all
sandman77 said:
Bernie said some pretty stupid things in that interview including his view that he was surprised that Hamilton was offended by Spanish fans who wore black face paint and wore t-shirts reading “Hamilton’s family”. BE is way out of date in his views. What are Liberty supposed to do here? Like it or not BE is, and always will be associated with F1 and Liberty need to protect their product. The best way to do this following the comments, and how they have been reported is, to distance themselves as much as possible from Bernie.
If you think about it further, why is Bernie even being interviewed on this subject? Possibly because the papers know he will say something stupid which will produce a nice click bait headline.
As far as I’m concerned Liberty have done the right thing here.
I agree with all of that apart from the conclusion. I know why liberty have done this, but ultimately they've done it for self serving reasons and at the expense of BE.

As you say, of course it's very easy to get a none pc comment from anyone his age. It doesn't mean he's racist.. hence it's not pleasant for the might of F1 to single him out so directly. Their statement might as well read "no racism here.. look, it was all that guy but he's gone now". They could easily have reiterated their own stance and also acknowledged that they feel the press has taken BE's comments out of context. Which is absolutely the case with the edited quotes propped up as headlines.

bolidemichael

3,132 posts

156 months

Saturday 27th June
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Liberty are a US company and are even more inclined to distance themselves from anything that might inflame the current situation; they're quicker on the draw than that other gunslinger Keir Starmer.

sparta6

1,784 posts

55 months

Saturday 27th June
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C Lee Farquar said:
TheDeuce said:
He was simply seeking the logic in the debate. I'm disappointed Liberty!
Quite, Liberty claim it's a time for unity but history tells you that you need full and frank discussions to achieve unity, you don't get prolonged unity by sweeping issues under the carpet.

Antiquated or otherwise, I'm struggling to think of many people who've dealt with more Countries and races (in the ethnic sense) over as many decades as Bernie has.
yes

That was a cheap shot by Liberty

sgtBerbatov

2,061 posts

36 months

Saturday 27th June
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Sixpackpert said:
Dr Jekyll said:
He said something like 'in some cases black people are more racist than white people'. Naturally the first few words have been ignored.
Ta.

ETA: After reading the Daily Wail article below...I see what you mean about the dropping of 'in some cases'.

Edited by Sixpackpert on Friday 26th June 19:11
The world will be a better place when that st rag goes bust.

C Lee Farquar

3,075 posts

171 months

Saturday 27th June
quotequote all
sandman77 said:
Bernie said some pretty stupid things in that interview including his view that he was surprised that Hamilton was offended by Spanish fans who wore black face paint and wore t-shirts reading “Hamilton’s family”. BE is way out of date in his views.
I think it's extremely likely that Bernie would have discussed that incident with Lewis at the time. I suspect Bernie's remark relates to Lewis expressing a different view at the time than he is now.

This, of course, may be indicative of the problem, as a rising black F1 driver he was less willing to rock the boat than he can now.


Dr Jekyll

19,704 posts

216 months

Saturday 27th June
quotequote all
C Lee Farquar said:
I think it's extremely likely that Bernie would have discussed that incident with Lewis at the time. I suspect Bernie's remark relates to Lewis expressing a different view at the time than he is now.

This, of course, may be indicative of the problem, as a rising black F1 driver he was less willing to rock the boat than he can now.
In the current climate saying 'blacked up face bad' is hardly rocking the boat.

C Lee Farquar

3,075 posts

171 months

Saturday 27th June
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
In the current climate saying 'blacked up face bad' is hardly rocking the boat.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Lewis is being significantly more forthright in his views and actions that he's expressing now than he has in the past.

I'm assuming he feels the same as he always has but now feels he can express those views more fully. I don't know whether that's due to the change of climate or the change in his position, probably a bit of both. Perhaps the most important issue is that he can speak out without fear that it will affect his career.

donkmeister

2,451 posts

55 months

Saturday 27th June
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C Lee Farquar said:
<snip> as a rising black F1 driver <snip>
Mixed race - his mum is white, his dad is black, so Lewis Hamilton is mixed race.

That doesn't change anything you wrote of course, but I hate the current direction towards a world where we follow the American "one drop" system and divide the world into "white people" and "not white people" instead of acknowledging our various heritages.

Edited by donkmeister on Saturday 27th June 16:28