Black Mercedes.

Black Mercedes.

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Muzzer79

3,381 posts

142 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
rscott said:
sparta6 said:
rscott said:
LucyP said:
Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/

And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!
Mercedes have not said they're endorsing or supporting BLM, only that they've pledged to work to improve the diversity of their team.and the car being black is a "clear statement that we stand against racism and all forms of discrimination." . Seems an eminently sensible approach - support the movement's aim to tackle racism and discrimination without endorsing or even mentioning some of the other aims of BLM .

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2020/06/silv...

Sky took a similar stand - clear statement that they're working to improve BAME representation at all levels and will use their platform to highlight racial injustice, but not endorsing or supporting the specific aims of BLM. https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/sky-commits...
Do we believe that Mercedes would be doing this if Hamilton was driving for Ferrari ?
Probably not. But is it a bad thing that they've listened to the concerns of Hamilton and reacted accordingly, while also staying out of the more political aspects of the BLM organisation's agenda?
But where does it end ?

Changing the pink cars for Perez due to the injustice for Mexicans ?
Would it be a problem if they did change the colour of Perez's car?

It's a paint scheme. If all the teams ran in colours to support causes of their choosing, I couldn't give two hoots - my enjoyment is derived from the racing, not what colour the car is.

Reading through some of the responses to this thread, I have to ask if people would be as outraged if the car was painted to support other causes.

If it was pink to support Breast Cancer Awareness, would that be an issue?



sparta6

1,784 posts

55 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
kiseca said:
sparta6 said:
The difference is money flow direction.

As an employee we have a paymaster and it can sometimes cloud our judgement.

As a consumer we have freedom of choice and are unencumbered.

And consumers can buy a German product today precisely because of the freedom given to us by those Allied troops who sacrificied so much and to whom we are indebted.
And it's an insult to that sacrifice for you to keep pretending you really mean this just so you can pick on Lewis.
What are you on about ?

Away from the track Hamilton acts like a bellend.
He also craves relentless attention, and receives it. Even on PH.



DanielSan

14,884 posts

122 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
BrettMRC said:
Some really odd comments on here.

If a move by anyone or any organisation to improve diversity and reduce inequality bothers you at any level then I think you need to go and do some studying and personal reflection.

It is right and proper that organisations and people with the biggest platforms should lead the way.

Also, the car looks great.
I'm not sure how F1 can be anymore diverse, this is the thing that baffles me, as a sport it travels around the world and embraces every country it goes to, even Bahrain and China with their stty human rights records. The grid either has or has had drivers from pretty much every nationality you can name who are white/latino/hispanic/Asian/mixed race, there's been female drivers in the past, arguably when the world was even more male dominated. Like wise with mechanics/engineers/designers and team principals in the paddock. Just because there isn't specifically more black people in the paddock doesn't mean the sport isn't diverse.

rovermorris999

4,663 posts

144 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
In the spirit of virtue signalling I intend to paint myself black to show solidarity. What could possibly go wrong?

kiseca

7,994 posts

174 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
kiseca said:
sparta6 said:
The difference is money flow direction.

As an employee we have a paymaster and it can sometimes cloud our judgement.

As a consumer we have freedom of choice and are unencumbered.

And consumers can buy a German product today precisely because of the freedom given to us by those Allied troops who sacrificied so much and to whom we are indebted.
And it's an insult to that sacrifice for you to keep pretending you really mean this just so you can pick on Lewis.
What are you on about ?

Away from the track Hamilton acts like a bellend.
He also craves relentless attention, and receives it. Even on PH.
What am I on about? That's simple to explain. I'm saying you're full of st.

Ironic that you'd say he acts like a bellend and he craves relentless attention, when you're constantly making every thread you can about what you think of Lewis and taking cheap shots at him.

Everyone on PH knows exactly what you think of him, but you keep reminding us. But yeah, he's the attention seeker....

I give up. I'd love to be able to browse through the Formula 1 forums on PH to keep up with F1 news but every second thread just becomes Sparta's Views On Lewis. It's like trying to watch TV with too many advert breaks, but it's always the same ads, and they're st.

Edited by kiseca on Tuesday 30th June 12:42

LukeBrown66

20 posts

1 month

Tuesday
quotequote all
Am not sure this is a good idea, Hamilton has never really done much to promote race through the lower formula's that I know of, has kept stum about it most of his career, maybe the right stance.
But to do this now to me just seems like bandwagon jumping.

Safe to say the car will look better though silver is a little dull.

HustleRussell

17,883 posts

115 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
The difference is money flow direction.

As an employee we have a paymaster and it can sometimes cloud our judgement.

As a consumer we have freedom of choice and are unencumbered.

And consumers can buy a German product today precisely because of the freedom given to us by those Allied troops who sacrificied so much and to whom we are indebted.
So how do you consider Mercedes to be organization supporting Nazism but simultaneously an organization which you are willing to give your money to?

Do you support the Nazis too or are you now accidently acknowledging the intervening four generations of history?

...and Lewis Hamilton is still the one with double standards?

HustleRussell

17,883 posts

115 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
DOCG said:
HustleRussell said:
Yes, angle.

I understand your question but to give an appropriate response I want to know what you're driving at.

I could assume but personally I don't like it when people do that

Am I to assume that your view is that engineering has never been overtly or deliberately exclusive? Could I extend that to conclude that you think that the situation as it is, is fine?
I am asking in what way it was/is exclusive. And no, your assumptions are wholly inaccurate, I am simply wanting to learn more.
The statistics indicate that the representation of BAME people and also women within engineering is low compared to the pool.

Why is that?

I have seen a number of initiatives which attempt to address the overwhelming male majority.

The initiatives launched by Hamilton attempt to investigate the first part.

Exige77

5,172 posts

146 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Problem with all of this is you can’t change history. It is what it is. Some good some bad.

As Humans we have done some terrible things to each other in the past. Things against race, religion, sexual orientation, or even just using the wrong hand to write with.

The list is endless but how long do we keep wanting to wallow in all these injustices ?

Society has made huge improvements in equality and I think will continue to do so.

We must know what happened in the past and learn from it in the future. Jumping on the virtue signalling band wagon starts to become divisive and makes the situation worse.

Mark-C

3,225 posts

160 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Mercedes are a massive capitalist concern with a strong understanding of the cost benefits of marketing. This will have had little cost (certainly a drop in their overall F1 budget) and gets them loads of almost entirely positive coverage.

That's it ... the whole story ... but well done all on getting a few pages of moaning out of it thumbup

otolith

41,249 posts

159 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
It’s a slippery slope. Once you get involved in politics you start to get judged.

It’s not a good thing when you want to appeal to as many customers as possible.
You must have been shaking your head when you saw this exchange, then - Yorkshire Tea and PG Tips wilfully throwing away the racist dollar, the fools.




Exige77

5,172 posts

146 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
They both only want customers that share their ideals ?

What happens when the BLM movements falls out of favour ?

It’s a slippery slope best not entered by big business.

PanicBuyingBogRoll

645 posts

17 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
otolith said:
Exige77 said:
It’s a slippery slope. Once you get involved in politics you start to get judged.

It’s not a good thing when you want to appeal to as many customers as possible.
You must have been shaking your head when you saw this exchange, then - Yorkshire Tea and PG Tips wilfully throwing away the racist dollar, the fools.



I'm sure they got more new customers from that than they lost. I don't particularly like Yorkshire Tea, but I bought some after this.

otolith

41,249 posts

159 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
They both only want customers that share their ideals ?

What happens when the BLM movements falls out of favour ?

It’s a slippery slope best not entered by big business.
Nope, they have principles and are willing to sacrifice the custom of racists in order to stand by them. Good on them.

Exige77

5,172 posts

146 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
otolith said:
Exige77 said:
They both only want customers that share their ideals ?

What happens when the BLM movements falls out of favour ?

It’s a slippery slope best not entered by big business.
Nope, they have principles and are willing to sacrifice the custom of racists in order to stand by them. Good on them.
So they are not businesses then ? They are now political organisations ?

PanicBuyingBogRoll

645 posts

17 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
otolith said:
Exige77 said:
They both only want customers that share their ideals ?

What happens when the BLM movements falls out of favour ?

It’s a slippery slope best not entered by big business.
Nope, they have principles and are willing to sacrifice the custom of racists in order to stand by them. Good on them.
So they are not businesses then ? They are now political organisations ?
I think you are trying too hard to be a dhead about this.

Why is promoting equality of opportunity a bad thing?

Exige77

5,172 posts

146 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
Exige77 said:
otolith said:
Exige77 said:
They both only want customers that share their ideals ?

What happens when the BLM movements falls out of favour ?

It’s a slippery slope best not entered by big business.
Nope, they have principles and are willing to sacrifice the custom of racists in order to stand by them. Good on them.
So they are not businesses then ? They are now political organisations ?
I think you are trying too hard to be a dhead about this.

Why is promoting equality of opportunity a bad thing?
Resorting to insults already ?

Absolutely nothing wrong with promoting “Equality” but that’s not what is being done.

They (Businesses) are supporting a divisive movement. Many other businesses are waking up to this and distancing themselves from BLM.

Shall we get back to Mercedes now ?




otolith

41,249 posts

159 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
otolith said:
Exige77 said:
They both only want customers that share their ideals ?

What happens when the BLM movements falls out of favour ?

It’s a slippery slope best not entered by big business.
Nope, they have principles and are willing to sacrifice the custom of racists in order to stand by them. Good on them.
So they are not businesses then ? They are now political organisations ?
They are not organisations which share your values or lack thereof. There is no necessity that a business be amoral or inhumane.

PanicBuyingBogRoll

645 posts

17 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
Exige77 said:
otolith said:
Exige77 said:
They both only want customers that share their ideals ?

What happens when the BLM movements falls out of favour ?

It’s a slippery slope best not entered by big business.
Nope, they have principles and are willing to sacrifice the custom of racists in order to stand by them. Good on them.
So they are not businesses then ? They are now political organisations ?
I think you are trying too hard to be a dhead about this.

Why is promoting equality of opportunity a bad thing?
Resorting to insults already ?

Absolutely nothing wrong with promoting “Equality” but that’s not what is being done.

They (Businesses) are supporting a divisive movement. Many other businesses are waking up to this and distancing themselves from BLM.

Shall we get back to Mercedes now ?
Where on the black Mercedes or in any of what they have said do they state they are supporting the political aims of BLM? Yes the BLM movement and the things Lewis said has prompted them to do this.

As far as I can see, Mercedes have said they would like to see an end to racism, will look at how they can become a more diverse organisation and ensure they provide the same opportunity to everyone. And are using their car to promote this in one of the biggest advertising areans there is. Can't see how you can twist it into being a negative thing.

Apologies if I've missed it somwhere.

LucyP

375 posts

14 months

Tuesday
quotequote all
But it is elementary business practice not to support the smashing of the system that gave you the opportunity to start the business and remain in business.