Black Mercedes.

Black Mercedes.

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Discussion

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

5,467 posts

21 months

HedgeyGedgey said:
The thing that gets me is its all because Lewis has stood up and said its a white dominated sport. Its the best of the best, whats he suggesting that teams now shouldn't scout out the best of the best instead pick their team based on their race. Isnt that just racist anyway. And Mercedes answer to all this is to just paint the car black, do we now call them the black arrows? Or is that racist because one drive is black? Or do we call them the black and white arrows? Wait I've got it, the multicultural arrows!!!! Has a ring to it I think
This is the thing. F1 teams are surely a prime example of performance being king - 'the best person should get the job' isn't just a popular sentiment in F1, it's an absolute necessity. Which does make it puzzling that there does appear to be a shortage of black team members. It is sometimes the case that certain ethnic groups simply don't tend towards certain career paths of course, not all spheres of work can be artificially evened out.

Mercedes seem to be approaching this from a point of view of reaching out to more black people to get them on the path to a career in F1. Does that mean that Mercedes believe there is an unjust barrier to black people becoming interested in the first place? Do they think black people are at some stage being made to feel unwelcome? I'd be genuinely interested to understand what they feel is 'broken' that they seek to fix - or if it's simply a case of wanting a representative workforce, regardless of whether the desire to be in that workforce is itself even and representative across all parts of society. I'd like to think that this isn't just a reaction to current issues for the sake of reacting - it's so hard to tell these days though.

Anyway, whatever the reason the car looks fantastic!! I keep looking at the picture and to my eye, the best car on the grid is now also the best looking. Oddly the second best looking car in my view is now the Williams (sans Rokit)..

rscott

10,304 posts

146 months

sparta6 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
SO woke, SO stunning, SO brave.

Wonder what the racial mix of Daimler AG is or even the merc racing team for that matter. Bet them muppets will be taking the knee before races aswell
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
Probably - Daimler acknowledge it very clearly on their website along with their involvement in a foundation which helped the forced labourers they used.
https://www.daimler.com/company/tradition/company-...

Boss commissioned a book setting out their role in WW2 - https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/german-... - and many other companies have also admitted their roles.

REALIST123

13,494 posts

108 months

sparta6 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
SO woke, SO stunning, SO brave.

Wonder what the racial mix of Daimler AG is or even the merc racing team for that matter. Bet them muppets will be taking the knee before races aswell
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
Surely, if he was aware of that he would never have driven for them, best car or not?

But then, he’s still associated with Hugo Boss so some parts of history maybe aren’t as important as others.

North West Tom

10,819 posts

132 months

It's cleary just a PR exercise to appease Hamilton. They even say in their statement, 3% of their workforce are non-white. You really think they give a damn? Next they'll purposely hire a black man for a random role they've created so they can say that it's 'progress'.

sparta6

1,784 posts

55 months

PanicBuyingBogRoll

645 posts

17 months

sparta6 said:
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
That took longer than I expected.

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

5,467 posts

21 months

REALIST123 said:
sparta6 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
SO woke, SO stunning, SO brave.

Wonder what the racial mix of Daimler AG is or even the merc racing team for that matter. Bet them muppets will be taking the knee before races aswell
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
Surely, if he was aware of that he would never have driven for them, best car or not?

But then, he’s still associated with Hugo Boss so some parts of history maybe aren’t as important as others.
That would imply that you assume he has no belief that people can change - or more accurately that people long dead might have been replaced with others that have rather different views!

When he signed for Mercedes I'm he wasn't worried that place would be full of Nazi sympathisers in the same way that he wouldn't expect them to give him a car from that era either wink


sparta6

1,784 posts

55 months

TheDeuce said:
REALIST123 said:
sparta6 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
SO woke, SO stunning, SO brave.

Wonder what the racial mix of Daimler AG is or even the merc racing team for that matter. Bet them muppets will be taking the knee before races aswell
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
Surely, if he was aware of that he would never have driven for them, best car or not?

But then, he’s still associated with Hugo Boss so some parts of history maybe aren’t as important as others.
That would imply that you assume he has no belief that people can change - or more accurately that people long dead might have been replaced with others that have rather different views!

When he signed for Mercedes I'm he wasn't worried that place would be full of Nazi sympathisers in the same way that he wouldn't expect them to give him a car from that era either wink
Or, perhaps, he has a selective memory when advancing his career wink

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

5,467 posts

21 months

sparta6 said:
Or, perhaps, he has a selective memory when advancing his career wink
But why does it matter to him? He wouldn't be able to do anything or live anywhere if he avoided all connections with all companies and places that have some level or racial discrimination in their history. Britain certainly does..

He's judging those that he sees as creating problems with equality today. There isn't a problem with Daimler Benz's behavior or associations today so there is noting to fix or judge.

Hazmat1

47 posts

53 months

sparta6 said:
Or, perhaps, he has a selective memory when advancing his career wink
I guess Nikki being Austrian should have been an issue too?
I mean hitler was? Should that have warned him off the team?

Or staying with Mclaren and using those naughty German engines was ok as the team was British (with funding from Bahrain and their impeccable human rights record)

Perhaps people just enjoy finding any reason they can to pick holes

rscott

10,304 posts

146 months

sparta6 said:
TheDeuce said:
REALIST123 said:
sparta6 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
SO woke, SO stunning, SO brave.

Wonder what the racial mix of Daimler AG is or even the merc racing team for that matter. Bet them muppets will be taking the knee before races aswell
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
Surely, if he was aware of that he would never have driven for them, best car or not?

But then, he’s still associated with Hugo Boss so some parts of history maybe aren’t as important as others.
That would imply that you assume he has no belief that people can change - or more accurately that people long dead might have been replaced with others that have rather different views!

When he signed for Mercedes I'm he wasn't worried that place would be full of Nazi sympathisers in the same way that he wouldn't expect them to give him a car from that era either wink
Or, perhaps, he has a selective memory when advancing his career wink
Perhaps the fact that those companies have acknowledged the part they played and taken some actions to make amends (being part of an industry foundation set up to help forced labourers, etc) even attracted him?

Muzzer79

3,381 posts

142 months

sparta6 said:
TheDeuce said:
REALIST123 said:
sparta6 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
SO woke, SO stunning, SO brave.

Wonder what the racial mix of Daimler AG is or even the merc racing team for that matter. Bet them muppets will be taking the knee before races aswell
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
Surely, if he was aware of that he would never have driven for them, best car or not?

But then, he’s still associated with Hugo Boss so some parts of history maybe aren’t as important as others.
That would imply that you assume he has no belief that people can change - or more accurately that people long dead might have been replaced with others that have rather different views!

When he signed for Mercedes I'm he wasn't worried that place would be full of Nazi sympathisers in the same way that he wouldn't expect them to give him a car from that era either wink
Or, perhaps, he has a selective memory when advancing his career wink
Or perhaps he looks at what companies and organisations are doing moving forward, rather than judging them on events from 80 years ago.


kiseca

7,994 posts

174 months

sparta6 said:
TheDeuce said:
REALIST123 said:
sparta6 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
SO woke, SO stunning, SO brave.

Wonder what the racial mix of Daimler AG is or even the merc racing team for that matter. Bet them muppets will be taking the knee before races aswell
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
Surely, if he was aware of that he would never have driven for them, best car or not?

But then, he’s still associated with Hugo Boss so some parts of history maybe aren’t as important as others.
That would imply that you assume he has no belief that people can change - or more accurately that people long dead might have been replaced with others that have rather different views!

When he signed for Mercedes I'm he wasn't worried that place would be full of Nazi sympathisers in the same way that he wouldn't expect them to give him a car from that era either wink
Or, perhaps, he has a selective memory when advancing his career wink
Dude. Your garage says you have a Merc, a Porsche, and a Ferrari. Once again you completely undermine your own position and show that you're either irrationally biased against Lewis, which in itself is being discriminatory (you keep attacking him, but not for any valid reason, it's just because you don't like him) or you're a very persistant troll.

I've never known a troll to keep at it for this long and not get bored, so I have to conclude it's the former. Which makes your attacks on his views of equality even more hypocritical.

HustleRussell

17,883 posts

115 months

sparta6 said:
TheDeuce said:
REALIST123 said:
sparta6 said:
SmoothCriminal said:
SO woke, SO stunning, SO brave.

Wonder what the racial mix of Daimler AG is or even the merc racing team for that matter. Bet them muppets will be taking the knee before races aswell
I wonder if Lewis has studied the history of Daimler and the Nazi party ?
eek
Surely, if he was aware of that he would never have driven for them, best car or not?

But then, he’s still associated with Hugo Boss so some parts of history maybe aren’t as important as others.
That would imply that you assume he has no belief that people can change - or more accurately that people long dead might have been replaced with others that have rather different views!

When he signed for Mercedes I'm he wasn't worried that place would be full of Nazi sympathisers in the same way that he wouldn't expect them to give him a car from that era either wink
Or, perhaps, he has a selective memory when advancing his career wink
This is the kind of st I expect to read on Twitter or in the YouTube comment section.

People think that it is so clever and profound to point out this supposed hypocrisy but I find it about as clever and profound as that one ruddy faced old man who props up the bar and still says "Don't mention the war!" completely out of context whenever German people are mentioned.

I am highly suspicious of people who will grasp at such tenuous connections such as these in an attempt to undermine a positive move towards racial equality.

When those people are the same people who seem to participate on the F1 forum mostly in order to criticize Lewis Hamilton...

sparta6

1,784 posts

55 months

TheDeuce said:
sparta6 said:
Or, perhaps, he has a selective memory when advancing his career wink
But why does it matter to him? He wouldn't be able to do anything or live anywhere if he avoided all connections with all companies and places that have some level or racial discrimination in their history. Britain certainly does..

He's judging those that he sees as creating problems with equality today. There isn't a problem with Daimler Benz's behavior or associations today so there is noting to fix or judge.
I agree.
And yet Lewis is yet to convey how he thinks things could improve in Britain.
Every successful person I know has arrived through merit and hard work, regardless of ethnicity.

I don't know of another country as open and diverse.

Lewis himself is a prime example of that.







ash73

17,904 posts

176 months

From a corporate point of view it's probably the right (on) thing to do, time will tell.

I expect there'll be notably more black employees in front of the camera too.

But it makes me cringe, blacking up the car doesn't exactly have the right connotations... imho.

Surprised there isn't a rainbow somewhere on the livery, to achieve maximum woke.

HustleRussell

17,883 posts

115 months

While I'm on my soap box, from what limited reading I have done, the initiatives launched by Hamilton and Mercedes appear to be very sensible and holistic in their approach in such a way that it could benefit young BAME people within and without F1. This is very refreshing compared to some of the efforts I have seen to make my backwater of Engineering more inclusive over the years.

HustleRussell

17,883 posts

115 months

ash73 said:
Surprised there isn't a rainbow somewhere on the livery, to achieve maximum woke.
If you're offended by the pride flag, don't look at the recent McLaren and Williams livery shots smile

DOCG

132 posts

9 months

HustleRussell said:
If you're offended by the pride flag, don't look at the recent McLaren and Williams livery shots smile
He's not offended, he's making fun of it.

TheDeuce

Original Poster:

5,467 posts

21 months

ash73 said:
But it makes me cringe, blacking up the car doesn't exactly have the right connotations... imho.
It's an interesting and perhaps 'designed to be a talking point' initiative. If I had gone to the US GP last season with my face blacked up to support the battle against inequality in the sport, I'm not sure my point would have come across as hoped...

It also kind of supports colour being relevant, when it should not be. Then again, Formula W has kind of (in fact, absolutely has..) introduced segregation in to a sports series that has since day one avoided such practices - and that seems to have been fully acceptable socially.

From a corporate POV Mercedes have probably played this one very well. From a logical POV it's easy to pick a few holes if you think about it in depth... But regards their corporate position and goals, it was a good move imo.