Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

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Discussion

RB Will

6,522 posts

198 months

Friday 16th October
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Wonder how many drivers that applies to?

The Moose

20,201 posts

167 months

Friday 16th October
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Only 2.

RB Will

6,522 posts

198 months

Friday 16th October
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You’re right. I just checked and I grossly underestimated how many wins a few teams had, I was expecting the big 4 to be miles ahead and for all the other constructors to have 15 or less wins.

Deesee

4,532 posts

41 months

Friday 16th October
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Nice find here from Reddit, Kovalianen only had one season with LH, did ok considering the company..

McMerc poles 2007 to 2012..




vdn

7,731 posts

161 months

Saturday 17th October
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Deesee said:
Nice find here from Reddit, Kovalianen only had one season with LH, did ok considering the company..

McMerc poles 2007 to 2012..



Nice !

ch37

6,357 posts

179 months

Saturday 17th October
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Lewis taught me something today. He posted a picture which looked like some sort of horrific sci-fi future with loads of crabs lined up in a lab being drained of blue blood.

Happy to admit my first thought was 'oh Lewis, what nonsense is this?'

Then did my research and realised it's absolutely a thing and I've almost certainly benefited (indirectly) from that blue blood at some point in my life.

Polite M135 driver

1,732 posts

42 months

Saturday 17th October
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Arthropods have copper based oxygen transport proteins, unlike the iron based haemoglobin we have!

I Like Tea

61 posts

182 months

Saturday 17th October
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paulguitar said:
Some very interesting info (although ten years old) here:

https://www.motorsportsetc.com/info/spd_mon.htm

To update to recent times...


Hamilton's pole lap time Monaco 2019 1:10.166.

Ayton Senna 1989 pole 1:22.308

Jim Clark pole 1964 1:34

So Clark to Hamilton, lap time difference, 24 seconds. eek The difference in machinery is such that Clark would be lapped every three tours of the Monaco circuit...

These times, of course, do not in any way to diminish the efforts of Clark or any other drivers from times past, just demonstrate how completely different eras are. The 1960's drivers would have had very low g forces from the tyres of the time, and very little downforce. On the other hand, they knew if they made a mistake they were very likely to be in serious trouble.

I think that if Clark was driving today he'd be brilliant, and if Hamilton was driving in the 1960s, he'd be brilliant too. We have no real way of knowing that though. smile








The mental load for Hamilton’s lap is significantly higher than it was for Clark or Senna. Pretty sure Lewis would be within a few 1/10s of Clark and Senna times in their cars in a few laps. Just can’t conceive that is possible the other way round.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Saturday 17th October
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I Like Tea said:
paulguitar said:
Some very interesting info (although ten years old) here:

https://www.motorsportsetc.com/info/spd_mon.htm

To update to recent times...


Hamilton's pole lap time Monaco 2019 1:10.166.

Ayton Senna 1989 pole 1:22.308

Jim Clark pole 1964 1:34

So Clark to Hamilton, lap time difference, 24 seconds. eek The difference in machinery is such that Clark would be lapped every three tours of the Monaco circuit...

These times, of course, do not in any way to diminish the efforts of Clark or any other drivers from times past, just demonstrate how completely different eras are. The 1960's drivers would have had very low g forces from the tyres of the time, and very little downforce. On the other hand, they knew if they made a mistake they were very likely to be in serious trouble.

I think that if Clark was driving today he'd be brilliant, and if Hamilton was driving in the 1960s, he'd be brilliant too. We have no real way of knowing that though. smile








The mental load for Hamilton’s lap is significantly higher than it was for Clark or Senna. Pretty sure Lewis would be within a few 1/10s of Clark and Senna times in their cars in a few laps. Just can’t conceive that is possible the other way round.
But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time smile

I Like Tea

61 posts

182 months

Saturday 17th October
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TheDeuce said:
But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time smile
Yes I agree we are products of our time, but you can’t guarantee that the drivers from previous eras, if growing up now, would have the bandwidth to step up to the current mental load. However, you can be certain the modern era drivers can step down.

TheDeuce

7,268 posts

24 months

Saturday 17th October
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I Like Tea said:
TheDeuce said:
But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time smile
Yes I agree we are products of our time, but you can’t guarantee that the drivers from previous eras, if growing up now, would have the bandwidth to step up to the current mental load. However, you can be certain the modern era drivers can step down.
You're right if we imagine a time machine, and dragging the past drivers forward a few decades - dropping them rudely in to today's world. But if they had been born at the same time as Lewis they would have had the same modern benefits, their applicable skills as drivers could have been pushed further. Senna took advantage of all he could back in his day - were he to start 20 years later he would have taken advantage of all the same training, diet, mental coaching and simulator time that Lewis has.

The point being that any driver, from any time period, if dropped in to another will always seek any advantage or improvement they can. in 2020 the cars are superior mechanically to 1990. Likewise the 'production' of drivers is also superior. We make better drivers in 2020, because we've gotten better at making drivers.

I Like Tea

61 posts

182 months

Saturday 17th October
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TheDeuce said:
I Like Tea said:
TheDeuce said:
But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time smile
Yes I agree we are products of our time, but you can’t guarantee that the drivers from previous eras, if growing up now, would have the bandwidth to step up to the current mental load. However, you can be certain the modern era drivers can step down.
You're right if we imagine a time machine, and dragging the past drivers forward a few decades - dropping them rudely in to today's world. But if they had been born at the same time as Lewis they would have had the same modern benefits, their applicable skills as drivers could have been pushed further. Senna took advantage of all he could back in his day - were he to start 20 years later he would have taken advantage of all the same training, diet, mental coaching and simulator time that Lewis has.

The point being that any driver, from any time period, if dropped in to another will always seek any advantage or improvement they can. in 2020 the cars are superior mechanically to 1990. Likewise the 'production' of drivers is also superior. We make better drivers in 2020, because we've gotten better at making drivers.
My point is a nature v’s nurture thing. I’m okay at maths and physics but you could teach me quantum mechanics for the next decade and I’m fairly confident I would never get it. Same with old v’s modern F1 cars, the bar for mental load has been raised and some drivers from earlier eras just won’t be able to cope, they won’t have the processing capacity. Whereas Lewis could jump in an older car and would find the mental demands very low.

I am thinking about 1/100ths of seconds of performance here, I wouldn’t expect that Clark would jump in a modern F1 car and wobble off the track at the first corner!

Your last point about making better drivers was thought provoking, I’m sure if you had a big enough pool of the global population from the 60s, you could find and ‘make’ a driver as good as Lewis, it might not be Clark or Stewart though and they would probably be better than either.


RB Will

6,522 posts

198 months

Sunday 18th October
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ch37 said:
Lewis taught me something today. He posted a picture which looked like some sort of horrific sci-fi future with loads of crabs lined up in a lab being drained of blue blood.

Happy to admit my first thought was 'oh Lewis, what nonsense is this?'

Then did my research and realised it's absolutely a thing and I've almost certainly benefited (indirectly) from that blue blood at some point in my life.
Assuming it was horseshoe crabs? In which case it’s probably for LAL testing. I’ve got one on my desk at work

nickfrog

12,592 posts

175 months

Sunday 18th October
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I Like Tea said:
My point is a nature v’s nurture thing. I’m okay at maths and physics but you could teach me quantum mechanics for the next decade and I’m fairly confident I would never get it. Same with old v’s modern F1 cars, the bar for mental load has been raised and some drivers from earlier eras just won’t be able to cope, they won’t have the processing capacity. Whereas Lewis could jump in an older car and would find the mental demands very low.
I agree. And even if the conclusion is still "we don't know", then ruling out Ham as the (potential) GOAT like Stewart does is absurd.

"We don't know" seems the only rational outcome where everyone can agree rather than "it's definitely not Ham".

Mr Tidy

12,349 posts

85 months

Monday 19th October
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nickfrog said:
I agree. And even if the conclusion is still "we don't know", then ruling out Ham as the (potential) GOAT like Stewart does is absurd.

"We don't know" seems the only rational outcome where everyone can agree rather than "it's definitely not Ham".
JS just comes across as an arrogant, gobby, lucky Tartan tw*t!

Jim Clark had way more talent until things sadly went wrong.

I just hope LH gets his 7th title - partly because I'm a fan, but equally because it might finallly make 2nd-raters like JS STFU!

LaurasOtherHalf

18,121 posts

154 months

Monday 19th October
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https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-hamilton-sees-i...


Good article and the full Hamilton quote from which the comments about Stewart came from.

kiseca

8,270 posts

177 months

Monday 19th October
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I Like Tea said:
TheDeuce said:
But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time smile
Yes I agree we are products of our time, but you can’t guarantee that the drivers from previous eras, if growing up now, would have the bandwidth to step up to the current mental load. However, you can be certain the modern era drivers can step down.
You also can't guarantee that modern drivers would be able to put up with the mental load of watching three of their compatriots die every season, or be willing to push a car to the limits that his predecessors did in face of such danger.

They had a different kind of stress back then, and since the human brain hasn't evolved significantly since 1950, I can't see why the old generation couldn't cope with today's workload either, if given the same training and practice since childhood that modern drivers get.

Neither way is a guarantee.


Edited by kiseca on Monday 19th October 07:45

Polite M135 driver

1,732 posts

42 months

Monday 19th October
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We did see all of the F1 drivers all go out and race the day after one of their compatriots died last year.

kiseca

8,270 posts

177 months

Monday 19th October
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Polite M135 driver said:
We did see all of the F1 drivers all go out and race the day after one of their compatriots died last year.
Most people will go back to work the day after one of their colleagues dies too. But that's not three or four a year. A few drivers in the '50s, '60s and '70s retired because they didn't want their luck to run out. The last one I know of who retired because of safety worries was Damon Hill, what, 20 years ago?

It's obviously not a factor in the sport now like it was then.

Anyway, my point is, the conditions have changed a lot and I disagree that we can say that a successful driver of today would have been guaranteed success in the 1960s any more than we can say those drivers would have succeeded today. It's impossible to say until someone manages to teleport a baby Lewis to 1940 and a baby Jim Clark to..... well, last week by modern driver age standards hehe

Drawweight

908 posts

74 months

Monday 19th October
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kiseca said:
You also can't guarantee that modern drivers would be able to put up with the mental load of watching three of their compatriots die every season, or be willing to push a car to the limits that his predecessors did in face of such danger.

They had a different kind of stress back then, and since the human brain hasn't evolved significantly since 1950, I can't see why the old generation couldn't cope with today's workload either, if given the same training and practice since childhood that modern drivers get.

Neither way is a guarantee.


Edited by kiseca on Monday 19th October 07:45
My opinion is the modern racer would be able to handle that mental load in the same way that the older generation did.

You only have to look at the modern TT races where unfortunately fatalities are a fact of racing on a road circuit.

They accept the risks and carry on in the same way they have since the first fatality. That’s not to say every current driver would do so but then they wouldn’t be in F1 and someone else who can accept those risks would be sitting in their seat.