Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)
Discussion
jm doc said:
Hungrymc said:
isaldiri said:
That Norris got ahead of Piastri was purely down to the team calling him early.
And that George ended up ahead Lewis because the team called him in to cover the only risk (that’s what they did with Lando). The new threat was only created by a team strategy call enabled by the fact that they had called Lewis in.Once again, I don’t believe it was underhanded. But it was very poor piece of management to give the strategy advantage to your car stuck in 5th, and only enabled by what you’ve done (and what you haven’t shared) with the car that has gained control of the race. That it ended up also getting George DQ’d just highlights what a mess they were making of it.
Again, I understand your position. I disagree and believe the mess is there for all to see. But fair enough that you see it differently.
The fact that they ended up screwing both drivers in a different way is just crazy.
maz8062 said:
Jasandjules said:
jm doc said:
Agree with this, they certainly messed up, but they had the opportunity at any point during the final part of the race to correct the damage but they didn't, they sat back and watched it unfold. It seems incredible that they did nothing if it was purely them messing up.
I think Toto said the data system said he would end up in 4th or 5th if he did the one stop so they had nothing to lose. They do not think the tyres would get him to keep going fast enough to stay ahead of the others which I suspect is why they rolled the dice. But then at the same time I am not clear on how the data said that when the tyres on the race day had far less wear than expected, I assumed they would put that data into the system and see what it said instead......
Brundle called it during the commentary assuming that Merc would instruct GR to let LH by and give him DRS to hold off Piastri. We were all caught unawares by it, perhaps because that’s how they wanted it to unfold.
> Hamilton is on a two-stop, according to the data, the fastest strategy
> Mid-way through the race, George gambles on a one-stop. The data says this will not work and he'll run out of tyres. With nothing to lose, George wants to do it and the team OK it.
> Once pit-stops are completed, the team assume that George will run out of tyres and Hamilton will be able to overtake him fairly easily considering the rate that he's closing in on him. Their priority is to keep both cars ahead of Piastri and they're still mindful that Hamilton has to manage his tyres too.
> Brundle, like most other people, assumes that with what will surely be tyres that are limited compared to Hamilton's and Piastri's, George won't be able to keep Hamilton behind him so suggests that he'll let him by but Hamilton will drop his pace to give George the DRS he'll need to keep Piastri behind him. The only suggestion of letting Hamilton by was to avoid risking his tyres even more in a battle he wasn't going to win.
> As it is, George has done a fine job of keeping his tyres alive. He is able to keep Hamilton behind him fair and square, despite his tyres being older.
> Hamilton can't make use of his tyre advantage in the final 3-or-so laps he had when he caught George.
So, a combination of good driving, circumstance and a bit of luck on Russell's part.
Edited by Muzzer79 on Friday 9th August 15:14
Muzzer79 said:
I really don't understand how the simplest explanation is not being considered
> Hamilton is on a two-stop, according to the data, the fastest strategy
> Mid-way through the race, George gambles on a one-stop. The data says this will not work and he'll run out of tyres. With nothing to lose, George wants to do it and the team OK it.
> Once pit-stops are completed, the team assume that George will run out of tyres and Hamilton will be able to overtake him fairly easily considering the rate that he's closing in on him. Their priority is to keep both cars ahead of Piastri and they're still mindful that Hamilton has to manage his tyres too.
> Brundle, like most other people, assumes that with what will surely be tyres that are limited compared to Hamilton's and Piastri's, George won't be able to keep Hamilton behind him so suggests that he'll let him by but Hamilton will drop his pace to give George the DRS he'll need to keep Piastri behind him. The only suggestion of letting Hamilton by was to avoid risking his tyres even more in a battle he wasn't going to win.
> As it is, George has done a fine job of keeping his tyres alive. He is able to keep Hamilton behind him fair and square, despite his tyres being older.
> Hamilton can't make use of his tyre advantage in the final 3-or-so laps he had when he caught George.
So, a combination of good driving, circumstance and a bit of luck on Russell's part.
the question is though, why didn't Bono radio Lewis to say 'George is on a one stop' when everyone else realised? > Hamilton is on a two-stop, according to the data, the fastest strategy
> Mid-way through the race, George gambles on a one-stop. The data says this will not work and he'll run out of tyres. With nothing to lose, George wants to do it and the team OK it.
> Once pit-stops are completed, the team assume that George will run out of tyres and Hamilton will be able to overtake him fairly easily considering the rate that he's closing in on him. Their priority is to keep both cars ahead of Piastri and they're still mindful that Hamilton has to manage his tyres too.
> Brundle, like most other people, assumes that with what will surely be tyres that are limited compared to Hamilton's and Piastri's, George won't be able to keep Hamilton behind him so suggests that he'll let him by but Hamilton will drop his pace to give George the DRS he'll need to keep Piastri behind him. The only suggestion of letting Hamilton by was to avoid risking his tyres even more in a battle he wasn't going to win.
> As it is, George has done a fine job of keeping his tyres alive. He is able to keep Hamilton behind him fair and square, despite his tyres being older.
> Hamilton can't make use of his tyre advantage in the final 3-or-so laps he had when he caught George.
So, a combination of good driving, circumstance and a bit of luck on Russell's part.
Edited by Muzzer79 on Friday 9th August 15:14
Other than that everything you say is true.
maz8062 said:
PhilAsia said:
"Be aware Lewis, George is on a one stop...", and we wouldn't be having this conversation. As either, George would still have had the tyres to stave off Lewis, or Lewis would have made use of an earlier call and been able to pass George.
Very simple.
Very simple.
Simples
Either Bono made the decision not to tell him for whatever reason or he himself didn’t know. Which is even more surprising.
maz8062 said:
PhilAsia said:
"Be aware Lewis, George is on a one stop...", and we wouldn't be having this conversation. As either, George would still have had the tyres to stave off Lewis, or Lewis would have made use of an earlier call and been able to pass George.
Very simple.
Very simple.
Simples
Sandpit Steve said:
maz8062 said:
PhilAsia said:
"Be aware Lewis, George is on a one stop...", and we wouldn't be having this conversation. As either, George would still have had the tyres to stave off Lewis, or Lewis would have made use of an earlier call and been able to pass George.
Very simple.
Very simple.
Simples
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes, the team should have made it clear to Lewis that his race was no longer with Oscar, but with George who was trying to stay out on a one stop. Which would have confirmed to Lewis what he already thought, that the hard tyres were good and didn’t need saving.
They probably would have done if they thought that he would be racing George. I don’t think anyone in the team thought George was going for the win on his 1 stop strat, just hoping for 3rd-5th and would be no threat to Lewis. Once it all shook out they just had to leave them to it as even if they went for an embarrassingly awkward team order George would have just ignored it.
RB Will said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes, the team should have made it clear to Lewis that his race was no longer with Oscar, but with George who was trying to stay out on a one stop. Which would have confirmed to Lewis what he already thought, that the hard tyres were good and didn’t need saving.
They probably would have done if they thought that he would be racing George. I don’t think anyone in the team thought George was going for the win on his 1 stop strat, just hoping for 3rd-5th and would be no threat to Lewis. Once it all shook out they just had to leave them to it as even if they went for an embarrassingly awkward team order George would have just ignored it.
isaldiri said:
RB Will said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes, the team should have made it clear to Lewis that his race was no longer with Oscar, but with George who was trying to stay out on a one stop. Which would have confirmed to Lewis what he already thought, that the hard tyres were good and didn’t need saving.
They probably would have done if they thought that he would be racing George. I don’t think anyone in the team thought George was going for the win on his 1 stop strat, just hoping for 3rd-5th and would be no threat to Lewis. Once it all shook out they just had to leave them to it as even if they went for an embarrassingly awkward team order George would have just ignored it.
PhilAsia said:
isaldiri said:
RB Will said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes, the team should have made it clear to Lewis that his race was no longer with Oscar, but with George who was trying to stay out on a one stop. Which would have confirmed to Lewis what he already thought, that the hard tyres were good and didn’t need saving.
They probably would have done if they thought that he would be racing George. I don’t think anyone in the team thought George was going for the win on his 1 stop strat, just hoping for 3rd-5th and would be no threat to Lewis. Once it all shook out they just had to leave them to it as even if they went for an embarrassingly awkward team order George would have just ignored it.
isaldiri said:
RB Will said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes, the team should have made it clear to Lewis that his race was no longer with Oscar, but with George who was trying to stay out on a one stop. Which would have confirmed to Lewis what he already thought, that the hard tyres were good and didn’t need saving.
They probably would have done if they thought that he would be racing George. I don’t think anyone in the team thought George was going for the win on his 1 stop strat, just hoping for 3rd-5th and would be no threat to Lewis. Once it all shook out they just had to leave them to it as even if they went for an embarrassingly awkward team order George would have just ignored it.
"Expectation"Dozens of analysts and computer modelling but we'll go with that....
PhilAsia said:
isaldiri said:
RB Will said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes, the team should have made it clear to Lewis that his race was no longer with Oscar, but with George who was trying to stay out on a one stop. Which would have confirmed to Lewis what he already thought, that the hard tyres were good and didn’t need saving.
They probably would have done if they thought that he would be racing George. I don’t think anyone in the team thought George was going for the win on his 1 stop strat, just hoping for 3rd-5th and would be no threat to Lewis. Once it all shook out they just had to leave them to it as even if they went for an embarrassingly awkward team order George would have just ignored it.
“George is risking a one-stop, we expect his tyres to die so carry on as you are “
Anyway, the point is that is wasn’t a big conspiracy to prevent Lewis winning as seems to be a certain viewpoint…..
Muzzer79 said:
PhilAsia said:
isaldiri said:
RB Will said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Yes, the team should have made it clear to Lewis that his race was no longer with Oscar, but with George who was trying to stay out on a one stop. Which would have confirmed to Lewis what he already thought, that the hard tyres were good and didn’t need saving.
They probably would have done if they thought that he would be racing George. I don’t think anyone in the team thought George was going for the win on his 1 stop strat, just hoping for 3rd-5th and would be no threat to Lewis. Once it all shook out they just had to leave them to it as even if they went for an embarrassingly awkward team order George would have just ignored it.
“George is risking a one-stop, we expect his tyres to die so carry on as you are “
Anyway, the point is that is wasn’t a big conspiracy to prevent Lewis winning as seems to be a certain viewpoint…..
Edit: Oh, and why are you 100% that there was not something suspect. Again, I never thought there was, but the question is being asked. So why the certainty...??
Edited by PhilAsia on Saturday 10th August 18:22
PhilAsia said:
I'm neither here nor there on a conspiracy. It is the lack of normal passing of information that has led to the question though.
Edit: Oh, and why are you 100% that there was not something suspect. Again, I never thought there was, but the question is being asked. So why the certainty...??
A conspiracy has to be proved with something credible. The onus is on the accuser to do that, not on me to prove that the conspiracy didn’t happen.Edit: Oh, and why are you 100% that there was not something suspect. Again, I never thought there was, but the question is being asked. So why the certainty...??
Edited by PhilAsia on Saturday 10th August 18:22
Muzzer79 said:
PhilAsia said:
I'm neither here nor there on a conspiracy. It is the lack of normal passing of information that has led to the question though.
Edit: Oh, and why are you 100% that there was not something suspect. Again, I never thought there was, but the question is being asked. So why the certainty...??
A conspiracy has to be proved with something credible. The onus is on the accuser to do that, not on me to prove that the conspiracy didn’t happen.Edit: Oh, and why are you 100% that there was not something suspect. Again, I never thought there was, but the question is being asked. So why the certainty...??
Edited by PhilAsia on Saturday 10th August 18:22
Maybe I am misreading your previous post inference.
Ordinarily given that LH had jumped the leaders and was leading the race, the win should have been foremost in their minds and getting GR as high up the pecking order for WCC points secondary.
I’ll also put it out there that GR’s car started the race underweight, fuel being used as ballast, but because he was disqualified and LH’s car was fine no one is picking up on this point. Folk are letting it slide, but how did that car have that much fuel left in the tank after the race there not having been a S/C not had he pitted like everyone else. LH was lifting and coasting while GR had enough fuel to go flat out for the entire race. There’s a bigger story in what was actually happening with GR’s car.
In the end Merc were too clever for their own good and LH came to their rescue saving them a whole heap of scrutiny for what was actually going on with GR’a car
I’ll also put it out there that GR’s car started the race underweight, fuel being used as ballast, but because he was disqualified and LH’s car was fine no one is picking up on this point. Folk are letting it slide, but how did that car have that much fuel left in the tank after the race there not having been a S/C not had he pitted like everyone else. LH was lifting and coasting while GR had enough fuel to go flat out for the entire race. There’s a bigger story in what was actually happening with GR’s car.
In the end Merc were too clever for their own good and LH came to their rescue saving them a whole heap of scrutiny for what was actually going on with GR’a car
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff