Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[andyA700]

Orchardab said:

RB Will said:

Both very helpful replies that fully answer my question. I now fully understand why anyone doubting Hamilton’s ability has had their trap shut this weekend.

He is always fast in a fast car.
Maybe lost his qualifying bottle with age.
He just can’t make a slow car fast in the same way the great drivers have done in the past.

Possibly the most stupid comment I have seen on this forum - and there have been many.

[Chamon_Lee]

TheDeuce said:

paulguitar said:

Dbag101 said:

He is toast at Ferrari. The Tifosi don’t like lazy sponsor’s suck puppies. If he lasts a season I’ll be amazed.

Not sure what 'lazy sponsor’s suck puppies' are?


Also a bit premature to be writing him off as 'toast'. We've seen some vintage Hamilton this season. Today, Silverstone, Spa. He'll be 40 by the time he drives a Ferrrai and LeClerc almost young enough to be his son. The fact that Lewis goes there with most people (not you, clearly) expecting him to be competitive shows just how potentially great he still is.


I view the Ferrari adventure as a coda to the greatest career I have witnessed in F1. A win or a few wins would be amazing, and I think with the right equipment he still has another title in him.

Were it not for his botched lap in Q3 this weekend he would probably have won his third race of the season yesterday - the fact he's won two races in the car he has is itself pretty good going!

Maybe he has passed his peak, it's hard to say as there are still moments of greatness even in a difficult car. We'll find out over the next couple of seasons vs leclerc I guess.

Imo, it's simply too soon to form a worthwhile opinion on how good he still is. Judging him this season, knowing he's departing the team, would be daft - although he's still keeping GR very honest.

Let's wait and see what he does in the Ferrari.

considering what he can do in an F1 car it is only fair to give him 1-2 years more to see if he's past his best. I can't help but wonder if you gave him a half decent car he would right up there. His form in the Mercedes over the last 2 years proves that as long as the car is consistent he can haul it around the track quite well. In saying that I think he is at a disadvantage against GR because he knows what a really good car feels like and when you are accustomed to that and you can't get that feel back I can imagine it being extremely frustrating and demotivating.
Add to the above wild fluctuations in mercs performance and it leads to a road down a dark lane

[SmoothCriminal]

RB Will said:

Both very helpful replies that fully answer my question. I now fully understand why anyone doubting Hamilton’s ability has had their trap shut this weekend.

The only reason why they kept their traps shut was because apart from q3 Hamilton was on fire.

[Sandpit Steve]

A great weekend for Lewis in Vegas, should have been a win bar a mistake in Q3 but very well recovered to set up a 1-2 for the team and maximise their points.

Two more night races to end the season, albeit not quite as cold as we saw in Nevada, bodes well for a strong finish to his Mercedes career.

[alisdairm]

Sandpit Steve said:

PhilAsia said:

I feel it is a gimmick and gives a luck advantage. For instance, in a safety car filled race the cars are not spaced out enough to pitstop for tyres and a shot at the extra point. In a race with no SC and a sizeable lead to the following car, you can take advantage of a pitstop. That one point could affect the season's title standings.

IIRC no-one has ever fked it up, which is quite surprising. I’d have expected at least one team to have not had the tyres ready, or have a gun that malfunctioned, or the driver get caught speeding or totally miss his marks.

.

I'm pretty sure Leclerc pitted for fresh tyres last year to go for the fastest lap (I can't remember which race), he lost a place in the pits and never even got the fastest lap.

[Altrezia]

alisdairm said:

I'm pretty sure Leclerc pitted for fresh tyres last year to go for the fastest lap (I can't remember which race), he lost a place in the pits and never even got the fastest lap.

Perez did it this year in mexico.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

Hamilton's form over the last few years, is directly related to the fact that at this stage of his career, he needs a competitive car to get the most out of him.
Having been in the best car since 2014-2021, and then off the back of the mental effort to compete against Verstappen in 2021 and have it end the way it did, then jump into the POS that was the 2022 car, would dim anyone's competitiveness. But he has hardly shown himself to be a mug!

Ferrari will be interesting however - I've no doubt about his ability to potentially dominate against LeClerc who looks erratic some times, but it'll depend on a few things:

1- is the Ferrari competitive
2 - will he be loved, valued and respected
3 - will the change of scene motivate him.

Ferrari politics, and point 2 I think will the the biggest influence to his success or otherwise.

[swisstoni]

I think at this stage, all he needs is 1.

[tight fart]

If he wins in a Ferrari they will love him.

[greenarrow]

The Hamilton question is an interesting one. People saying he has only done well in fast cars. What Lewis has over MAX IMO is that he has been a team-mate with 2 drivers who have also won the F1 drivers championship and on both occasions he edged them. Alonso in 2007 as a rookie and then Button during the 3 seasons he finished higher 2 of the 3 seasons although I believe overall on points Jensen edged it, thanks to the latter's second place finish in 2011 which was probably in many ways Lewis's disappointing season yet. Max has never had a world champion team-mate so we don't know yet how he would fare in that scenario. Also, during the seasons when Lewis' car was uncompetitive he wasn't really overshadowed by his team-mate. Its probably fair to say that an all time GOAT contender should perhaps have been more convincing in some of those average years, but then even drivers like Alonso who have always outperformed poor machinery had their off years, such as 17th place in 2015, one behind Button and Michael Schumacher when he returned to Mercedes at an admittedly advancing age was well beaten by Nico Rosberg. So I guess maybe current age Lewis v Michael Schumacher on his Mercedes comeback is a fairer comparison of how good a driver is in later years? I dunno.

I have been one of those thinking that Lewis is past his best now and should perhaps retire and save his legacy, but maybe we should wait and see how he gets on with Ferrari next year.

Edited by greenarrow on Monday 25th November 12:18

[Drawweight]

For the Hamilton move alone 2025 is going to be one of the most anticipated ever.

[carl_w]

greenarrow said:

What Lewis has over MAX IMO is that he has been a team-mate with 2 drivers who have also won the F1 drivers championship and on both occasions he edged them.

Three if you include Rosberg

[paulguitar]

carl_w said:

greenarrow said:

What Lewis has over MAX IMO is that he has been a team-mate with 2 drivers who have also won the F1 drivers championship and on both occasions he edged them.

Three if you include Rosberg

Yes, he beat Button 2 -1 and Rosberg 3 -1

[swisstoni]

paulguitar said:

carl_w said:

greenarrow said:

What Lewis has over MAX IMO is that he has been a team-mate with 2 drivers who have also won the F1 drivers championship and on both occasions he edged them.

Three if you include Rosberg

Yes, he beat Button 2 -1 and Rosberg 3 -1

Yes, he has been up against teams with one 100watt driver and another carefully selected 60watter. Nobody to take points off the top man but good enough to take points away from the opposition.

[paulguitar]

swisstoni said:

paulguitar said:

carl_w said:

greenarrow said:

What Lewis has over MAX IMO is that he has been a team-mate with 2 drivers who have also won the F1 drivers championship and on both occasions he edged them.

Three if you include Rosberg

Yes, he beat Button 2 -1 and Rosberg 3 -1

Yes, he has been up against teams with one 100watt driver and another carefully selected 60watter. Nobody to take points off the top man but good enough to take points away from the opposition.

Rosberg and Button were very good drivers, but neither quite up with Alonso IMO. It's worth remembering that Alonso was at his peak when Lewis joined McLaren with him. He'd just won back-to-back titles and vanquished Michael Schumacher. It's very doubtful we will ever see a rookie season again like Hamilton's in 2007.

[RB Will]

paulguitar said:

It's very doubtful we will ever see a rookie season again like Hamilton's in 2007.

He obviously got himself in the position for it so we dont need to argue that, just trying to think how common it is for a rookie to go straight into a top team able to fight for the championship? never mind with a decent WC there too.

Was the last one other than Hamilton JV back in the 90s?

[paulguitar]

RB Will said:

paulguitar said:

It's very doubtful we will ever see a rookie season again like Hamilton's in 2007.

He obviously got himself in the position for it so we dont need to argue that, just trying to think how common it is for a rookie to go straight into a top team able to fight for the championship? never mind with a decent WC there too.

Was the last one other than Hamilton JV back in the 90s?

Yep, JV in 1996, and Hill in 1993 spring to mind. But JV was up against Damon Hill, who, although clearly un accomplished driver was not in Alonso's league, and Hill himself went up against a pretty old and 'phoning it in' Alain Prost.

[MBBlat]

Those that seem to doubt Hamilton can drive a slow car fast only has to look back to the dim and distant 2023 season. Does anyone really believe that the 2023 Mercedes was the 2nd fastest car on the grid? Obviously Red Bull was a class of its own, but both the Ferrari and McLaren were faster than the Mercedes, as was possibly the AM, although Alonso also arguably outdrove his machine.

Mistypes corrected for you sarcastic lot

Edited by MBBlat on Tuesday 26th November 20:32

[MarkwG]

paulguitar said:

RB Will said:

paulguitar said:

It's very doubtful we will ever see a rookie season again like Hamilton's in 2007.

He obviously got himself in the position for it so we dont need to argue that, just trying to think how common it is for a rookie to go straight into a top team able to fight for the championship? never mind with a decent WC there too.

Was the last one other than Hamilton JV back in the 90s?

Yep, JV in 1996, and Hill in 1993 spring to mind. But JV was up against Damon Hill, who, although clearly un accomplished driver was not in Alonso's league, and Hill himself went up against a pretty old and 'phoning it in' Alain Prost.

Does David Coulthard count? Spent two years as test driver for Williams, promoted to front line as Hill was, when Senna died? Although it rapidly turned to r4tsh!t for reasons...

[cuprabob]

MBBlat said:

Those that seem to doubt Hamilton can drive a slow car fast only has to look back to the dim and distant 2003 season. Does anyone really believe that the 2093 Mercedes was the 2nd fastest car on the grid? Obviously Red Bull was a class of its own, but both the Ferrari and McLaren were faster than the Mercedes, as was possibly the AM, although Alonso also arguably outdrove his machine.

Some finger trouble with the numbers there.