Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

Author
Discussion

RB Will

9,663 posts

240 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
That's a baffling viewpoint.

.......

Fact is that Hamilton came third. The others, for varying reasons, were behind. It's not down to luck, it's down to consistency.
It isn't really, you are just not understanding it the way I'm intending it to come across but it is about Hamilton on here so can only expect as much.

As I said, he was consistent, Ply above has pointed out he did have one standout lap so happy to retract that he had no standout performance. What I'm trying to say is that it was not just his consistency that got him 3rd, the bigger factor on that was 2/3 main rivals having half seasons, due to reasons beyond their control. As above Hamilton's average finishing position was 5th, and may have been lower if Aston / Mclaren's machinery had been there the whole season.

If you think Hamilton's driving this year was remotely near any of his peak seasons I don't know what you were watching.

Hustle_

24,667 posts

160 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
I don't really know how people can use Hamilton's 2023 driver's championship position as evidence that he's past it.

However that doesn't mean I'm surprised that people are.

I remember the end of 2022 when everyone said he was finished and Mercedes would be looking to manage him out because Russell outscored him.

Edited by Hustle_ on Tuesday 9th January 16:45

PhilAsia

3,795 posts

75 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
deadslow said:
Hamilton is still in the top league of drivers, and gets the benefit of the doubt re small mistakes etc until Merc give him a decent car.
Happy 2024 deadslow! beer

deadslow

7,988 posts

223 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
PhilAsia said:
deadslow said:
Hamilton is still in the top league of drivers, and gets the benefit of the doubt re small mistakes etc until Merc give him a decent car.
Happy 2024 deadslow! beer
beer

Muzzer79

9,907 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
Hustle_ said:
I don't really know how people can use Hamilton's 2023 driver's championship position as evidence that he's past it.

However that doesn't mean I'm surprised that people are.

I remember the end of 2022 when everyone said he was finished and Mercedes would be looking to manage him out because Russell outscored him.

Edited by Hustle_ on Tuesday 9th January 16:45
I remember when he got Covid at the end of 2020 and, on the basis of one stand-in race, people were questioning why Mercedes wouldn't just save £30m and replace their 7-time champion with George Russell rolleyes

Muzzer79

9,907 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
RB Will said:
Muzzer79 said:
That's a baffling viewpoint.

.......

Fact is that Hamilton came third. The others, for varying reasons, were behind. It's not down to luck, it's down to consistency.
It isn't really, you are just not understanding it the way I'm intending it to come across but it is about Hamilton on here so can only expect as much.

As I said, he was consistent, Ply above has pointed out he did have one standout lap so happy to retract that he had no standout performance. What I'm trying to say is that it was not just his consistency that got him 3rd, the bigger factor on that was 2/3 main rivals having half seasons, due to reasons beyond their control. As above Hamilton's average finishing position was 5th, and may have been lower if Aston / Mclaren's machinery had been there the whole season.

If you think Hamilton's driving this year was remotely near any of his peak seasons I don't know what you were watching.
I don't think he was at his peak, but he certainly wasn't at his worst. My main point is that it's ridiculous to say that Aston Martin could have done this or Ferrari could have done that and he would have finished lower because

a) They didn't.
b) Even if were improved, there's no way of knowing what would have happened.
c) It's a team sport - man and machine. I've repeatedly said that on these pages that trying to seperate driver from car in any season is impossible, therefore it has to be looked at as a collective. Nothing is therefore 'beyond their control'

If anything, you're intimating that Hamilton had (or should have had) the 5th best car - this doesn't make the actual achievement of 3rd in the championship lucky, it makes it impressive.

It seems like we applaud some drivers and teams that out-perform their machinery's capability, yet some other drivers are 'lucky'......

HighwayStar

4,252 posts

144 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
RB Will said:
Muzzer79 said:
That's a baffling viewpoint.

.......

Fact is that Hamilton came third. The others, for varying reasons, were behind. It's not down to luck, it's down to consistency.
It isn't really, you are just not understanding it the way I'm intending it to come across but it is about Hamilton on here so can only expect as much.

As I said, he was consistent, Ply above has pointed out he did have one standout lap so happy to retract that he had no standout performance. What I'm trying to say is that it was not just his consistency that got him 3rd, the bigger factor on that was 2/3 main rivals having half seasons, due to reasons beyond their control. As above Hamilton's average finishing position was 5th, and may have been lower if Aston / Mclaren's machinery had been there the whole season.

If you think Hamilton's driving this year was remotely near any of his peak seasons I don't know what you were watching.
In a car that was inconsistent across a race weekend and from track to track… the car is a lash up, Frankenstein rather than the complete concept. All things considered I believe he did well.

RB Will

9,663 posts

240 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
I think we will just have to agree to disagree and move on Muzzer.

Muzzer79

9,907 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th January
quotequote all
RB Will said:
I think we will just have to agree to disagree and move on Muzzer.
Agreed. beer

ARFBY

443 posts

133 months

Sunday 11th February
quotequote all
It's official: I've lost my kids to the dark side.

Lewis is now a 'skin' in Fortnite. I just asked my kids if they want to have him, they both said "No thanks, when will Max be available?" frown



Edited by ARFBY on Sunday 11th February 09:54

RB Will

9,663 posts

240 months

Sunday 11th February
quotequote all
The dog hehe

Wills2

22,787 posts

175 months

Sunday 11th February
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
In a car that was inconsistent across a race weekend and from track to track… the car is a lash up, Frankenstein rather than the complete concept. All things considered I believe he did well.
Of course he did, he got the best out the package and the situations he found himself in during the season (that bit is also called luck good or bad) just like Max or Alonso would, those are the 3 drivers that all things being equal will get the best from a car during a season, whether that's a Haas or last seasons RB and anything in between.







HighwayStar

4,252 posts

144 months

Sunday 11th February
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
HighwayStar said:
In a car that was inconsistent across a race weekend and from track to track… the car is a lash up, Frankenstein rather than the complete concept. All things considered I believe he did well.
Of course he did, he got the best out the package and the situations he found himself in during the season (that bit is also called luck good or bad) just like Max or Alonso would, those are the 3 drivers that all things being equal will get the best from a car during a season, whether that's a Haas or last seasons RB and anything in between.
No doubt he made mistakes, crashed and of course that is not a good look but he was pushing hard in every race trying chasing every point he could get. I did note in another F1 thread it was said Leclerc made too many mistake but he was given a free pass in a subsequent post because he was making up deficiencies in his car….

PlywoodPascal

4,163 posts

21 months

Sunday 11th February
quotequote all
ARFBY said:
It's official: I've lost my kids to the dark side.

Lewis is now a 'skin' in Fortnite. I just asked my kids if they want to have him, they both said "No thanks, when will Max be available?" frown
We can only really blame the parents, I suppose.
I know you’re doing your best, but you’ve obviously let some unhealthy influences into their lives.

heebeegeetee

28,699 posts

248 months

Sunday 11th February
quotequote all
Personally I think the younger Lewis would have got second in the championship, but third is still a great result.
Should he have been able to beat either Ferrari driver in the standings, what do we think?

MBBlat

1,623 posts

149 months

Sunday 11th February
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
Personally I think the younger Lewis would have got second in the championship, but third is still a great result.
Should he have been able to beat either Ferrari driver in the standings, what do we think?
Personal view, if Hamilton was driving a Ferrari last year he would have been 2nd, which probably explains his move. Last season would also have been a lot more interesting if Red Bull weren’t quite so dominant.

RB Will

9,663 posts

240 months

Sunday 11th February
quotequote all
Think he certainly had more chance at 2nd in a Ferrari. Reckon there were a few potential race wins there.

heebeegeetee

28,699 posts

248 months

Monday 12th February
quotequote all
I certainly agree with the previous 2 comments.
I also think had Hamilton been a Ferrari driver in the 'fuel flow' car there would have been a championship there too.

Wills2

22,787 posts

175 months

Monday 12th February
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
Wills2 said:
HighwayStar said:
In a car that was inconsistent across a race weekend and from track to track… the car is a lash up, Frankenstein rather than the complete concept. All things considered I believe he did well.
Of course he did, he got the best out the package and the situations he found himself in during the season (that bit is also called luck good or bad) just like Max or Alonso would, those are the 3 drivers that all things being equal will get the best from a car during a season, whether that's a Haas or last seasons RB and anything in between.
No doubt he made mistakes, crashed and of course that is not a good look but he was pushing hard in every race trying chasing every point he could get. I did note in another F1 thread it was said Leclerc made too many mistake but he was given a free pass in a subsequent post because he was making up deficiencies in his car….
I was agreeing with you, no one in the paddock doubts Lewis's ability or what he has achieved you have to go on the internet to find the people with a made up axe to grind to find those opinions which are plentiful in the F1 section of PH but PH is a bit of magnet for those sorts of people.




HighwayStar

4,252 posts

144 months

Monday 12th February
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
HighwayStar said:
Wills2 said:
HighwayStar said:
In a car that was inconsistent across a race weekend and from track to track… the car is a lash up, Frankenstein rather than the complete concept. All things considered I believe he did well.
Of course he did, he got the best out the package and the situations he found himself in during the season (that bit is also called luck good or bad) just like Max or Alonso would, those are the 3 drivers that all things being equal will get the best from a car during a season, whether that's a Haas or last seasons RB and anything in between.
No doubt he made mistakes, crashed and of course that is not a good look but he was pushing hard in every race trying chasing every point he could get. I did note in another F1 thread it was said Leclerc made too many mistake but he was given a free pass in a subsequent post because he was making up deficiencies in his car….
I was agreeing with you, no one in the paddock doubts Lewis's ability or what he has achieved you have to go on the internet to find the people with a made up axe to grind to find those opinions which are plentiful in the F1 section of PH but PH is a bit of magnet for those sorts of people.
I wasn’t disagreeing with you… just additional comments on my part Wills.. thumbup