Hulkenberg. Wow.

Hulkenberg. Wow.

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HustleRussell

18,466 posts

118 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
Stuart70 said:
nickfrog said:
Out of Perez, Hulk, Stroll and Vettel it would be funny if RP ended up picking the two lesser drivers for 2021.
Vettel and Hulk, you mean?

Does he?

For me the ‘two lesser drivers’ are Stroll and whichever the least good of the other three is- which is debatable.

TwentyFive

221 posts

24 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Stuart70 said:
nickfrog said:
Out of Perez, Hulk, Stroll and Vettel it would be funny if RP ended up picking the two lesser drivers for 2021.
Vettel and Hulk, you mean?

Does he?

For me the ‘two lesser drivers’ are Stroll and whichever the least good of the other three is- which is debatable.
I think it all depends on what you base the decision on. On current form they are all very close. Stroll has been up there with Perez in the same car, Vettel is disappointing (but how much is the chassis issue?) and Hulk has immediately beaten Stroll.

Right now I would say the two weakest are Stroll and Vettel but that's a fluid thing weekend to weekend.

If I had to pick two with consideration given both for value for money and a consistent pair of drivers then I would take Perez and Hulkenberg. On outright ability on their best days then I would take Vettel and Perez.

nickfrog

12,592 posts

175 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
TwentyFive said:
If I had to pick two with consideration given both for value for money and a consistent pair of drivers then I would take Perez and Hulkenberg.
That's what I meant. Unless of course Vettel stops making silly mistakes but he has been at it consistently since 2017.

Perez brings 15 million dollars. Vettel would cost 15 million dollars at least I assume.

I know it is going to be Vettel and Stroll next year despite being the most expensive and least talented permutation.

kiseca

8,270 posts

177 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
TwentyFive said:
HustleRussell said:
Stuart70 said:
nickfrog said:
Out of Perez, Hulk, Stroll and Vettel it would be funny if RP ended up picking the two lesser drivers for 2021.
Vettel and Hulk, you mean?

Does he?

For me the ‘two lesser drivers’ are Stroll and whichever the least good of the other three is- which is debatable.
I think it all depends on what you base the decision on. On current form they are all very close. Stroll has been up there with Perez in the same car, Vettel is disappointing (but how much is the chassis issue?) and Hulk has immediately beaten Stroll.

Right now I would say the two weakest are Stroll and Vettel but that's a fluid thing weekend to weekend.

If I had to pick two with consideration given both for value for money and a consistent pair of drivers then I would take Perez and Hulkenberg. On outright ability on their best days then I would take Vettel and Perez.
I would pick Stroll any day of the week.



otherwise his dad will fire me



KevinCamaroSS

8,567 posts

238 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
TwentyFive said:
It is interesting to read the views on Hulkenberg and his abilities.

I like Nico, and believe he should be in F1. Do I think he is one of quickest in the sport... No. Do I think he is far more deserving of an F1 drive than others currently in F1... Yes.

I think he did a really solid job at Silverstone and see nothing wrong with the praise he has been getting but also agree that needs to be tempered somewhat when you consider he was driving the most competitive car he ever had in F1 and the fact that he has been fairly anonymous for large parts of his career. There have been moments mentioned by others such as Brazil 2010 and then him throwing away a podium there in 2012 but apart from that I do struggle remember anything stand out from him.

I would like to see him in F1 full time but given the available teams I think he would be far better off looking towards getting aligned to a manufacturer in WEC as they move toward the new hypercar rules. He could build a very solid career for himself there and be highly successful. He has already shown an aptitude for endurance racing with his win at Le Mans in 2015 and would be an asset in that paddock.
Excellent post, I fully agree.

Stuart70

2,120 posts

141 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Stuart70 said:
nickfrog said:
Out of Perez, Hulk, Stroll and Vettel it would be funny if RP ended up picking the two lesser drivers for 2021.
Vettel and Hulk, you mean?

Does he?

For me the ‘two lesser drivers’ are Stroll and whichever the least good of the other three is- which is debatable.
I was joking. 4x WDC with motivational / performance issues and the driver who was second in line for Mercedes after Lewis are head and shoulders above Daddy’s boy and Perez. But it is all opinion, “for sure” (as Nico would say).

HustleRussell

18,466 posts

118 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
Stuart70 said:
HustleRussell said:
Stuart70 said:
nickfrog said:
Out of Perez, Hulk, Stroll and Vettel it would be funny if RP ended up picking the two lesser drivers for 2021.
Vettel and Hulk, you mean?

Does he?

For me the ‘two lesser drivers’ are Stroll and whichever the least good of the other three is- which is debatable.
I was joking. 4x WDC with motivational / performance issues and the driver who was second in line for Mercedes after Lewis are head and shoulders above Daddy’s boy and Perez. But it is all opinion, “for sure” (as Nico would say).
Tough to choose between Perez and Hulk performance wise IMO. Hulk probably marginally better on Saturdays, Perez marginally better on Sundays, it probably averages out (witness their three years as team mates).

Perez is lighter and brings money while Hulk is bulk and expects a salary. I guess that’s why Hulk lost the game of musical chairs last year.

How much better is Vettel? Quantified as a salary? I tend to think he’s more about credibility / a statement of intent.

I’m finding the latest incarnation of Racing Point much harder to like since Lawrence has started directing things.

Mr_Thyroid

1,889 posts

185 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Perez is lighter and brings money while Hulk is bulk and expects a salary. I guess that’s why Hulk lost the game of musical chairs last year.
The "Hulkenberg is heavy" fact gets thrown around quite a lot, but how much difference does it actually make in the current cars? How heavy is Hamilton? - he looks pretty stacked these days.

HustleRussell

18,466 posts

118 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
HustleRussell said:
Perez is lighter and brings money while Hulk is bulk and expects a salary. I guess that’s why Hulk lost the game of musical chairs last year.
The "Hulkenberg is heavy" fact gets thrown around quite a lot, but how much difference does it actually make in the current cars? How heavy is Hamilton? - he looks pretty stacked these days.
Driver size will always be relevant for packaging reasons.

The regs were changed for 2019 IIRC so that there was a minimum defined weight for driver + seat which no current driver would be in excess of. This almost nullified the advantage of being a light driver. There is still a very slight advantage in that you can achieve a lower CoG if the weight is in the seat rather than on the driver. Hence Hamilton and others allowing themselves more muscle in recent years.

kiseca

8,270 posts

177 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Mr_Thyroid said:
HustleRussell said:
Perez is lighter and brings money while Hulk is bulk and expects a salary. I guess that’s why Hulk lost the game of musical chairs last year.
The "Hulkenberg is heavy" fact gets thrown around quite a lot, but how much difference does it actually make in the current cars? How heavy is Hamilton? - he looks pretty stacked these days.
Driver size will always be relevant for packaging reasons.

The regs were changed for 2019 IIRC so that there was a minimum defined weight for driver + seat which no current driver would be in excess of. This almost nullified the advantage of being a light driver. There is still a very slight advantage in that you can achieve a lower CoG if the weight is in the seat rather than on the driver. Hence Hamilton and others allowing themselves more muscle in recent years.
I think there was a change a few years earlier where minimum car weight had to include the driver and kit as well. That was also at the time predicted to remove Hulk's disadvantage. I remember a few commentators saying things like imagine how much faster Hulk would be without his weight disadvantage...

His height should be a disadvantage too, a smaller driver can have a smaller car, and a smaller car creates less drag. But clearly he fits into Perez's car so not sure how much relevance to put on that either..

HustleRussell

18,466 posts

118 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
kiseca said:
I think there was a change a few years earlier where minimum car weight had to include the driver and kit as well. That was also at the time predicted to remove Hulk's disadvantage. I remember a few commentators saying things like imagine how much faster Hulk would be without his weight disadvantage...

His height should be a disadvantage too, a smaller driver can have a smaller car, and a smaller car creates less drag. But clearly he fits into Perez's car so not sure how much relevance to put on that either..
Lighter drivers still had a useful advantage under that previous rule, as the engineers could put the ballast wherever they wanted. It was a setup variable that they could optimize to achieve best balance which wasn't available to drivers who carried that weight upon their person.

I heard that Hulk is only 2cm taller than Stroll so no biggy in the current Racing Point but would he fit into the 2020 McLaren for instance where they have Norris and Sainz?

ISTR a tall driver possibly Ocon being ruled out of a drive at one of the teams as they put him in the car and he was too tall. Might've been McLaren actually.

Mr_Thyroid

1,889 posts

185 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
kiseca said:
His height should be a disadvantage too, a smaller driver can have a smaller car, and a smaller car creates less drag. But clearly he fits into Perez's car so not sure how much relevance to put on that either..
They don't make a bigger car for taller drivers. Although their helmet will probably be slightly higher in the cockpit and may slightly disrupt airflow into the air intake and maybe to and even lesser extent onto the rear wing.

But if Renault considered his height when they dumped Hulkenberg they chose the wrong replacement - Ocon being 2cm taller (according to the internet).

HustleRussell

18,466 posts

118 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
kiseca said:
His height should be a disadvantage too, a smaller driver can have a smaller car, and a smaller car creates less drag. But clearly he fits into Perez's car so not sure how much relevance to put on that either..
They don't make a bigger car for taller drivers. Although their helmet will probably be slightly higher in the cockpit and may slightly disrupt airflow into the air intake and maybe to and even lesser extent onto the rear wing.

But if Renault considered his height when they dumped Hulkenberg they chose the wrong replacement - Ocon being 2cm taller (according to the internet).
Teams absolutely do engineer their cars to suit their current driver situation, a team with two long term drivers of average height or less certainly aren't going to build a car that would fit the tallest F1 driver on the grid on the off chance.

Ocon missed a potential 'chance' to stand in for Russell in the Williams last year as he was too tall for the car.

thegreenhell

7,658 posts

177 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
There are minimum cockpit dimensions in the tech regs, otherwise they'd hire two midgets and design the car accordingly.

L4CON

107 posts

63 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Ocon missed a potential 'chance' to stand in for Russell in the Williams last year as he was too tall for the car.
Ocon is listed as being 1cm taller than Russell online, that must be a hell of a snug fit for Russell if Ocon can't fit in. Unless it's down to leg/body length proportions.

cuprabob

9,191 posts

172 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
L4CON said:
HustleRussell said:
Ocon missed a potential 'chance' to stand in for Russell in the Williams last year as he was too tall for the car.
Ocon is listed as being 1cm taller than Russell online, that must be a hell of a snug fit for Russell if Ocon can't fit in. Unless it's down to leg/body length proportions.
...or the Sky viewers lobbied to get Di Resta in the car smile

Leithen

6,582 posts

225 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
L4CON said:
HustleRussell said:
Ocon missed a potential 'chance' to stand in for Russell in the Williams last year as he was too tall for the car.
Ocon is listed as being 1cm taller than Russell online, that must be a hell of a snug fit for Russell if Ocon can't fit in. Unless it's down to leg/body length proportions.
Ocon and all other lanky types will have spent years learning how to drive cars with their knees next to their ears.

Mr_Thyroid

1,889 posts

185 months

Thursday 13th August
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Teams absolutely do engineer their cars to suit their current driver situation, a team with two long term drivers of average height or less certainly aren't going to build a car that would fit the tallest F1 driver on the grid on the off chance.
But they don't necessarily know who their drivers are going to be when they design the car.

Anyway what I really meant is that they don't design one car for their tall driver and one for their short driver - so there no benefit in being smaller that is designed into the chassis, if your team mate is Hulkenberg, Ocon or Stroll, for example.

entropy

3,926 posts

161 months

Monday 17th August
quotequote all
Anything Hulk can do, Checo...

Common Porpoise

400 posts

128 months

Monday 17th August
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Driver size will always be relevant for packaging reasons.

The regs were changed for 2019 IIRC so that there was a minimum defined weight for driver + seat which no current driver would be in excess of. This almost nullified the advantage of being a light driver. There is still a very slight advantage in that you can achieve a lower CoG if the weight is in the seat rather than on the driver. Hence Hamilton and others allowing themselves more muscle in recent years.
there was an article before the start of this season that stated Lewis was lighter than last year and had actually been working on reducing upper body mass for the exact reason of lowering CoG